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Diablo 2: Median XL Ultimative

kingcomrade

Kingcomrade
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Lilura uses the same avatar as that one chick from way back when. Change your avatar, do you not realize the damage you are doing to fragile psyches
 

Siobhan

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Couple of quick points in random order before I hit the sack.

Ahem, respec with Akara once-per-difficulty after completing Den of Evil.
Akara respec was introduced with the 1.13 patch, which was released in 2010. Diablo 2 came out in 2000, so for 10 years there was no respec.

I didn't say sub-par shit, I said not as good as what comes after 20h --- which is exactly what you said.
No, you didn't say "not as good" you said "hitting its stride"
freedictionary:
hit (one's) stride
1.
To achieve a steady, effective pace.
2. To attain a maximum level of competence.
--> no implication that what one did before is shit; not even a conversational implicature

You generally don't save skillpoints that often, and not in a degree that even mildly adversely effects your power progression.
Fair enough. I mostly played Paladin builds like the Zealot, and if I remember correctly those rely on one or two clvl 30 auras and a zeal skill that shouldn't be too high (around 5 or 6). So it might have been less of an issue with other classes that have a greater number of useful skills available early on (e.g. Barb passive skills?). But I admit this is also something that has been alleviated by the introduction of synergies in patch 1.10.

You can do that [i.e. try different builds] with other builds in other games
yes, and then I have to start from Act I all over again, which isn't very appealing for somebody who doesn't enjoy the majority of acts. I'm fine with that in a party-based game where you can try four or six completlely different builds in each runthrough, but for a game with the build variety of D2 and the restriction to one build per game, it would be nice if there was a less time-consuming way to try builds. E.g. a mode where you start on clvl40 in nightmare right way.

Most of the time they're just plain fields with little use of the z-axis, which would have made things more interesting
This has already been refuted by me,
Your reply doesn't apply, it's mostly a list of dungeons while I explicitly separated dungeons and outdoor stuff in the post. So I'm only talking about outdoor areas here.

I and many others I know consider Normal -> Nightmare -> Hell to be three parts of one game
That's very nice for you, others don't. That brings us back to the thing I said already a few days ago, your "proofs" rely on peculiar axioms, and when people don't accept those axioms, you should try to make arguments that don't hinge on them or just stop the discussion right there. The first route strikes me as more interesting, for both parties. I'm not free of guilt here since I can't really engage with your arguments if we adopt your axioms about what the game should do and how much time it has to get the job done. But I also never claimed that my arguments hold in that case, see the next point.

Contrary to your claims, you're not actually interested in deepening any discussion if that results in your exposure as an ignoramus.
I've stated several times that the only reason I'm interested in the discussion is because it looks like you know a lot about the game, its mechanics, and so on. More than the average codexer, including myself. So exposure as an ignoramus isn't a factor because I have already said multiple times that you're the expert. Hell, in my first few posts I've been slobbering all over your cock in an effort to get something juicy out of you. That doesn't mean I have to swallow it all, though. I have my own opinion and my own way of approaching the game (= different axioms), one that doesn't strike me as all that untypical if I think about how my friends played the game back in the days. That giant wall of text up there was a summary of how I think D2 fares against D1 in that case. So maybe what we can do is state explicitly what our criteria for a good hack-n-slash are, determine which design decisions gel well with that and which ones don't, use that to reach a conclusion about what our respective ideal version of Diablo would look like, and then turn that into actual advice for which mods or games to try? You know, something that's actually useful for posterity. Would that be agreeable?
 
Self-Ejected

Lilura

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Akara respec was introduced with the 1.13 patch, which was released in 2010. Diablo 2 came out in 2000, so for 10 years there was no respec.

So for almost the last 5 years D2 has featured respec, and here you are presently complaining about its absence... ok, you haven't played in a while, obviously.

But considering the relative ease with which one can lvl a build, respec is really just a luxury or welcome addition for veterans to more optimumly style stats and skills around newfound items. It isn't the difference between success and failure in SP, unless you make some completely bizarre allocations and you'd have to be trying to self-gimp in that case.

Fair enough. I mostly played Paladin builds like the Zealot, and if I remember correctly those rely on one or two clvl 30 auras and a zeal skill that shouldn't be too high (around 5 or 6). So it might have been less of an issue with other classes that have a greater number of useful skills available early on (e.g. Barb passive skills?). But I admit this is also something that has been alleviated by the introduction of synergies in patch 1.10.

You also can't save up skill points and when you break into top-tier, suddenly dump all your spares into one skill thereby attaining instant OPness. Skill allocation is limited somewhat by player lvl.

There have been many changes in D2 over all these patches, some SP communities are even dedicated to specific patch releases because of whatever mechanic they liked and wanted to cling to.

yes, and then I have to start from Act I all over again, which isn't very appealing for somebody who doesn't enjoy the majority of acts. I'm fine with that in a party-based game where you can try four or six completlely different builds in each runthrough, but for a game with the build variety of D2 and the restriction to one build per game, it would be nice if there was a less time-consuming way to try builds. E.g. a mode where you start on clvl40 in nightmare right way.

I prefer to feel the build grow as I play rather than just start off uber. And for someone like you who has an idea of how these games play, lvling to 40 should be a trivial matter. It is for me, anyway.

Your reply doesn't apply, it's mostly a list of dungeons while I explicitly separated dungeons and outdoor stuff in the post. So I'm only talking about outdoor areas here.

And evidently only first act overworld areas pre-Monastery Gates and a few areas in Act 2. The rest are interesting enough. Act 3 initially consists of narrower clearings winding in maze-like fashion until Lower Kurast when ruins, temples are other structures begin to dominate all the way up until Travincal. Act 4 also has bottlenecks caused by fiery chasms and ruins in the first few areas, followed by the River of Flame and Chaos Sanctuary. Act 5 consists of terrain which can be hard to navigate at times, at Bloody Foothills you can easily get boxed in with enemies funneling in from a few angles. The open areas are largely structural with walls and doors which can be destroyed to progress and there's a notable bottleneck transitioning Frigid Highlands to Arreat Plateau...

Sure, it isn't D1 lvl of corridorish limitation with extreme emphasis on positioning and so on, but so what? Serves the purpose. If you want D1, play D1. Same goes for sustained atmosphere and a slower game. Not my intention to compare them in this topic, but go for it.

That's very nice for you, others don't.

Beating non-Hardcore Normal = beating D2 <- casual plodder claim to fame. Reasons have been given, if you don't agree then whatevs.

I have my own opinion and my own way of approaching the game

Some points of contention were based on playing different patch releases (synergies, respec), so yeah, I can see where you're coming from, but I think maybe your overall criticism of D2 SP isn't as well thought out as you think, and maybe rooted in lack of skill to a degree. And personally I find Hardcore runs of D2 more entertaining and interesting than D1 runs.

So we just agree to disagree, then. Done.

As for ideal versions of this sort of game, Ultimative is ideal for those into experimentation and extremes. But I might post more on that later.
 
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Diablo 2 is for me like Oblivion of hack and slash subgenre. No matter how many mods and patches you will put on it, it will remain a souless sequel to a great older title. I've been trying to play game from zero to hero with my new Sorceress, but it's so boring that I've given up. On the other hand, Diablo HD mod still waits to play.
 

DraQ

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There's more than a dozen reasons Diablo II doesn't have as well of an atmosphere as it could have, and those are the reasons you come up with?
What else should I add? MMO lite mechanics? Numerous but relatively impotent mobs you can cut your way through at lvl1?

No fix needed: normal, magical, rare and unique drop rates are generously increased in Ultimative, so their sell value has been nerfed for game balance reasons. For argument's sake, its something like 1-10gp for normals, 10-100 for magical and 100-500 for rare and unique on Hatred (Normal difficulty). Pretty reasonable seeing as Ultimative provides other sources of income, already cited by me.

In stock D2, certain normal items in the Bloodmoor had sell value of 400gp and some magical ones had sell value of first act merchant cap (10,000gp). The abundance of money could only really be used in SP for gambling, whereas Ultimative gives alternative incentives to burn cash, also already cited by me.

So really, you're just nit-picking.
Woosh.

About a dozen of those are exploratory/farming only, which is a reasonable amount.
Not in this type of game.
The game that's essentially about trailing a doomed ex-hero across the world, following a path of destruction he left in his wake and trying to make it in time before the apocalypse happens needs exactly 0 exploratory dungeons. Especially ones that aren't exactly in your way. The problem with D2 is that nothing is really in your way or acceptably close detour unless you actually need to go through, because of its nature where open overworld is the glue for its content. So the Den (fuck its "My First Quest" too), Cave, Hole, Pit, Crypt & Mausoleum, several ruins in A2 plus a bunch of dungeons and spider caves in A3 I don't remember nor care to remember have shitty luck of being featured in a game that shouldn't have them in a first place.

Many others have, too.
What makes you think I haven't?

We aren't talking of anything that can earn you a sense of accomplishment just by beating it.
Although Diablo 2 *would* have been better if it didn't force repetition just because you played it in small chunks, with its portal system and inane MMO-lite mechanics.

So Lrn2play, shit-stain.

(...)

Your taste is fixated on the games you happened to be playing when your tiny balls dropped
Nonono. Let's get three things out of the way first.

1. First a game must convince me it's worth my time. It's the way it works. Diablo 2 is fucking trite, so I haven't and will not spend my time researching builds and mechanical minutiae that make an effective one and whatnot.
2. Whatever insults you're using to impress your 13yo BN playmates, will probably not work here. At best they will earn you most of the posters' here (not so juvenile) scorn, generally it will just paint the picture of yourself as an individual that's both immature and too slow on the uptake to realize own limitations.
3. If you do want to impress someone by insulting them, at least get your facts straight. I won't be doing you service by doing your homework here, so its up to you to figure what I mean. Not that I will be holding my breath for your success - see the "slow on the uptake" part.

So really, anyone who talks about D2 being "completed" on merely Normal is pretty much just a casual plodder with talent on par with a TES "gamer", imo.
Anyone else is willing to treadmill through the same content over and over for fairly misguided reasons.

New things I learned in this thread: 0
Not even the futility of discussion with posturing morons?


Are you implying one doesn't simply step into the first level of the cathedral in D1 and see zombies/skeletons whateverthefuck?
Operative word being "into".

Before you enter the desecrated cathedral with weird and macabre shit going in it the exact count of demons, undead and otherwise unnatural things seen by you is zero. In D2 you'd first spend about 25% of the game killing zombies playing on the lawn outside before even stepping in.
Besides, even as far as NPCs are concerned, the knowledge of anything weird going on in Tristram is contained to doomed population of Tristram itself. The world doesn't know and will not know, there is masquerade in place even amidst of brewing apocalypse and the world appears nearly 100% mundane to an outside observer. In D2 you travel across the world and back driving zombies and demons of everyone's lawn in exchange for favours.
The worst, most immersion breaking thing in Diablo 1 are boobrogues, who, depending on your character choice may not even play any role in your game.
For comparison, this single poor element is not onlt the plot axis of Act 1 in D2, but it's also immeasurably better and less outrageous than nearly all that follows, save for inexcusably short Hell.
 

Akratus

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
There's more than a dozen reasons Diablo II doesn't have as well of an atmosphere as it could have, and those are the reasons you come up with?
What else should I add? MMO lite mechanics? Numerous but relatively impotent mobs you can cut your way through at lvl1?

Yes! Those are good arguments that I can agree with.
 

Damned Registrations

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Since the has apparently become another Diablo 1 vs 2 thread...

I think another thing from the original that everyone else glosses over is the fact that items didn't have level requirements originally. Which meant that stat requirements on items mattered. Raising your Str wasn't some irrelevant bullshit you only needed to do to X amount because you were level Y, it was something you continually wanted more of so you could use better and better equipment. It trails off somewhere towards the end, but by that point you have stat potions and shit anyways. This also made finding equipment more exciting, because without a level cap, a magic (or even mundane) item of a higher rank might seriously be better than a unique of a lower rank. This never happens in Diablo 2 because you're always wearing shit at your level cap, with the probable exception of whatever items you can get +1 to skills from.
 

Siobhan

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History of MXL
Thanks, that provides some interesting background. So does the change from one modder to the other imply that earlier versions of the mod play very differently and possibly still have their own little devoted following. Kinda like some JA2 players hold on to the last release of the 1.13 mod before the introduction of major changes like 100 AP, NIV, new CTH, HAM, etc.? Or is it really just the addition of pointless meta-derp that has little impact on the actual gameplay?

New things I learned in this thread: 0
Not even the futility of discussion with posturing morons?
Nah, I already knew that, I just can't help myself ;) And Lilura's latest post is more on the constructive side.

So for almost the last 5 years D2 has featured respec, and here you are presently complaining about its absence... ok, you haven't played in a while, obviously.
Not unmodded with patch 1.13 going beyond normal, no. I might have done so once, but I doubt it. Mostly because I just keep recycling my ancient Wine install with v1.10, which is what many mods need. It does raise an interesting question though that I didn't consider at all, and that's how one should evaluate a game like D2 that has been tweaked quite a bit over the years (including even increased drop rates and lowered difficulty if one of the earlier posters in this thread is to be believed). Many of the things I don't like about D2 aren't addressed by the patches, but some of the mechanical issues have been fixed. Should everybody have to play 1.13 before they are allowed to weigh in? Or do we identify patch-independent aspects that everybody can talk about irrespective of which version they played? I think for Troika games the average codexer would insist that you can't shit on the game just because you played it upon release and it was a buggy mess --- that stuff has been fixed by unofficial patches since then, and a lot of cut content has been restored.

But considering the relative ease with which one can lvl a build, respec is really just a luxury or welcome addition for veterans to more optimumly style stats and skills around newfound items. It isn't the difference between success and failure in SP, unless you make some completely bizarre allocations and you'd have to be trying to self-gimp in that case.
The issue is more one of convenience, imho, because it would shorten the time it takes to try different builds in SP. I really don't understand why they didn't include it in v1.00 right away, at least for SP (I suppose there might have been balancing reasons not to have it in Battlenet originally?). Basically, something like "you've grown bored of your Whirlwind Barbarian? Alright, do this quest and you can redistribute x skill points and try something new".

Skill allocation is limited somewhat by player lvl.
Yes, but if you have to level multiple clvl30 skills, saving up points means you can raise all these skills with every level up rather than just one. That gives you a linear speed-up in progression, which is noticeable. But it's a minor point in my overall evaluation of D2, so I'll let it go.

I prefer to feel the build grow as I play rather than just start off uber. And for someone like you who has an idea of how these games play, lvling to 40 should be a trivial matter. It is for me, anyway.
It might be trivial, but it still takes time. Time that I don't really want to spend if the motivation is "wow, this Flashadin thing sounds really unusual, I wonder if the end result works as promised". Yeah, ultimately that's a matter of preference but keep in mind that a mode where you start at a higher level could have easily been added and would have improved the game. Why didn't they do it? Maybe lack of imagination, maybe lack of time (though it wasn't added with any of the later patches), or, most likely, because SP wasn't deemed as important as Battlenet, and leveling up can be done a lot quicker there, so it wasn't considered much of an issue.

Sure, it isn't D1 lvl of corridorish limitation with extreme emphasis on positioning and so on, but so what? Serves the purpose. If you want D1, play D1.
If I could have something better, why shouldn't I get something better? How would D2 be worse if more effort had been put into the overworld? More precisely:

1) why did positioning have to become less important in order to make the D2 mechanics work?
2) why aren't there any things to do like, say, finding a hidden cave with loot behind a movable rock, some enemies that can talk to you before they attack (cf. Garbage the Weak, Snotspill), inscriptions to read, etc. There's a little bit of that, like the forge in Act IV and some lever pushing in the more dungeony sections of each act, but it's pretty rare.

You might say that's like complaining about the minimalist story in MM6, which misses the point of the game. But there's an important difference: a full-blown story would actually be detrimental to the focus of MM6, it would bog it down and require limiting the free exploration to some extent. In D1 we see that the suggestion above can improve the game quite a bit, but they're also easy to ignore if you just want to fight monsters. Why wouldn't the same be true for D2?

Beating non-Hardcore Normal = beating D2 <- casual plodder claim to fame. Reasons have been given, if you don't agree then whatevs.
I agree with DraQ here:
Anyone else is willing to treadmill through the same content over and over for fairly misguided reasons.
I don't understand how anyone could consider the "play the game 3 times" approach good design. You mention two reasons: 1) hell's increased difficulty means the standard tactics fail, and 2) the three difficulties feel different. I'm not quite sure what to make of these claims. Of course different difficulty levels won't feel the same, otherwise they would be pointless. But we don't go around saying that "Piece of Cake", "Let's Rock", "Come Get Some" and "Damn I'm Good" are the four parts of Duke Nukem 3d and one has to play all of them for the true Duke Nukem 3D experience. Many RPGs have difficulty settings, with quite an effect on what tactics are viable, e.g. size of enemy groups, resistances, how often the AI uses buffs and debuffs, etc. Why is that not a viable system for D2? You want hell, play hell, without having to go through normal and nightmare first.

But I think maybe your overall criticism of D2 SP isn't as well thought out as you think, and maybe rooted in lack of skill to a degree.
I won't challenge the skills part, it depends on what kind of aptitude one takes as the baseline, and that baseline will be higher than usual for somebody who regularly plays in hell. No idea how I meausre up in that respect. But I think my criticisism is consistent if you buy into my initial assumptions about what the game should deliver and what makes for fun gameplay (modulo the issue of patch changes for some of the mechanics, which I did indeed fail to take into account). The assumptions part is clearly where we disagree, and that's what I've been saying from the very beginning, though I didn't articulate it as well as I could have in hindsight. That doesn't mean that the discussion has to end with agree to disagree, though. As long as both parties know what the respective assumptions are, intersubjectivity is guaranteed, and that's all you need for a discussion.
 
Self-Ejected

Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
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The mod itself stands out with a higher difficulty than vanilla, more drop variety, some weird tier system, rather amateurish animations (at least he tried), invulnerable insta-death mobs that will fuck up your hardcore characters if you get close, new character builds and that's about it.

Counters to your brief comments:

I didn't find the tier system "weird", you find a unique and can gradually up-tier it five times so that the item remains relevant as you lvlup, some of them into Destruction. You still have to sacrifice other uniques by disenchanting them and then transmute residues into arcane crystals, but that's still infinitely faster than farming another suitable one which may never again drop.

Complaining about amateurish anims is also pretty bizarre and ungrateful since you got the mod for free, and getting pixel artists to slave away drawing original sprites is expensive and time-consuming. Besides, Infinity Engine sprites are hardly amateurish even though they're definitely not D2 lvl, fucking cry moar...

As for invulnerable mobs and insta-death enemies, ubers are for skilled/dedicated players only. Noobs need not apply.

New skillz n buildz are fucking solid and items are steroid-enhanced, the shit you can do with one class goes beyond any other mod I've seen, what with oskills and the like.

If you're into the lore and atmosphere/coherence aspects, you'll find this not very amusing.

MXL:U is about experimentation and extremes, want to fap over Diablo 2's lame-ass lore then play stock or another mod.

If someone wants to make a mod that brings the crowd away from D3 and back into D2,

Even if someone made the most amazing mod possible, do you really think the D3 crowd would return to D2?

make magic/rare items the theoretical best for any given build instead of dull runewords,

Combo of sacred uniques, sacred sets, crafted/blessed with only the odd Great Runeword-ed item has served my builds substantially well and I've almost completed all content as I indicated earlier in the topic, so yeah?

rework the synergies to avoid funneling people into a few basic viable builds,

More options are always good, but you probably just lack imagination and knowledge in character building because you exaggerate (ie, "few basic viable builds").

make sure each stat serves more than just requirement-food (energy could affect skill damage etc.),

They do, and in fact even in stock D2 you could build a Titan barb or glass cannon Zon by maxing str/dex and almost wholly ignoring the existence of the other stats. Ultimative just enhances str/dex/en bonus to plus thousands of percent, depending on skill/item. You can also ignore that and go flat dmg and procs...

make hirelings grow a brain,

Could be engine limitation? The hirelings are majorly beefed up and die far less often than stock D2, at least in pre-Destruction ubers. If this could be fixed, wouldn't it be fixed by now? On the MXL boards most people don't even bother with mercs after Terror, it seems generally accepted that they just can't survive in higher modes of play. I don't have a problem with this.

remove the best drops from the final bosses and just spread them across all mobs (to avoid the trillion Baal runs)

The best drops are Great Runes, unique jewels and unique mystic orbs. Found them farming ubers, not Baal. I've found most of my sacred uniques and sets basically everywhere in Destruction difficulty, but mostly /players8 Tran Athulua. The very best items are crafted/blessed, not fucking farmed.

and possibly sprite a new monster or two (actual original art, instead of just ripping wholesale from other games).

The fact you complain about ripped sprites twice makes me think you're a fucking ingrate.

Median doesn't aim for the above, it has its own niche and goal (to make the screen give you plenty of seizures perhaps).

I share the view they went overboard with the visual effects, the opaque ones are the worst since for a split sec you sometimes can't see what's going on.

i did play this game for a decade.

Not from where I'm standing... In fact, you don't even sound a single step up from the others in this topic I've argued with.

Basically, you just sound jaded and have really only thrown random, vague, outdated criticism around that is easily argued against. I also doubt you can do better.
 
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Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
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Yes, but if you have to level multiple clvl30 skills, saving up points means you can raise all these skills with every level up rather than just one. That gives you a linear speed-up in progression, which is noticeable.

Hardly.

Most clvl30 skills require synergies to be effective, many are weak or even useless by themselves at the time you get them without solid investment in synergies from pre-reqs (stuff like +dmg, +duration, +def etc). Many clvl30s are one-pointers, further investment in them being a waste. Many clvl30s are simply outstripped by lower clvl skills, or are situationally surpassed by them. Many clvl30s of differing trees essentially exclude each other depending on build (this one or that one, both is stupid). Many clvl30s are useless depending on build...

So it isn't like there's several top-tier skills lined along the bottom of each skilltab just waiting for you to fill them up from clvl30 onwards, thereby gaining some kinda blasphemous advantage. There's like 2 or max 3 per tab, and investment into them is limited by the various considerations I detailed above.

So once again, this back and forth is pretty much just a waste of time. Imo, you lack the knowledge and probably the skills and played a version of the game that's almost five years old, or older who knows. I'd rather not spend time adjusting my thoughts on the game to accomodate you, especially as already now most people talk about 1.13x, and that will only become more common in future years since its highly unlikely Blizz will release yet another patch now that Rethek is gone (and judging by their blatant disregard of D2 Battle.net, filled with bots, hackers, trolls, clans, psychos and spammers), and the difference between 1.13c and d are extremely minimal already, so yeah... 1.13 ftw, I don't really wanna downgrade to the days of disc-check.
 

Leonorai

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If you had a common shred of sense, your almighty experience should have tipped you on the fact that i was talking about vanilla as i suggested those improvements.

That is the one that i've played for a decade and there's nothing that you can drive me into a corner with regards to.

Regarding atmosphere, yeah, sorry that i tend to get snapped back into reality far too harshly by fucking minigun arrows, robots (in D2 of all places) and more sprite effects that should actually exist at the same time. It feels trashy and comparable to gypsy music/clothing when put up against something more palatable.

Invulnerables screwing you over - i meant the pouncing purple witches that you can do jack shit about, not the uber challenges. Those add nothing to the experience if they can't be killed.

If you're going to mod, then you know how to code. If you know how to code, then you should probably pick up basic spriting skills to compliment your setup. I don't give a fuck if you're pleased seeing monsters from other games pop up in Diablo, it's incredibly jarring to the gameplay and feels like an odd mashup. Not to mention that it's often not subtle and the chosen mobs rarely fit in.

The D3 folks? I think they went to that camp partly due to the horribly pixelated by modern standards graphics and resolution, the immunities just slapping you as a hard counter and the game forcing you into Baal runs to be efficient. That and the teleport on Enigma, nothing was a bigger fuckup than letting every character teleport indefinitely. Charges are far more limiting and acceptable, letting the signature skill of the sorc get thrown around into every cookie-cutter build wasn't cool.

If you call a monster with a dozen immunities and a silly gimmick to wait out before you attack "skill", then i kind of pity you. Mount and Blade could require skill, Diablo only requires patience.

I did mention that it caters to an extreme vision of what's fun for some people, so anyone that likes experimentation should give it a try. I just find the planned obstacle courses, invulnerability galore, ripped sprites and overkill visual effects to be what poor dubstep is to quality music. If you want a go at it, sure, but to my eyes it's just clutter.

I browse moddb far more than you'd probably think and screw Sturgeon's law, 99% of everything spat out there is a joke. Recoloring, reskinning, importing models and changing a few skills and item names does not constitute a proper mod. Play a game, gain experience, find out its flaws, focus on as many of them as you can without messing up the architecture that's already there. That's how you make a real mod. Laz made an extreme, pushed even further by that Marco fella.

Oh and you still act like an absolute twat and i wonder what you get out of this thread really. Codex terminology aside, you could be far more neutral if you want people to give the mod a try.
 
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Lilura

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5,274
That is the one that i've played for a decade and there's nothing that you can drive me into a corner with regards to.

Well that goes for me with Ultimative (what this topic is about), and stock D2 in respect to Hardcore, PvP, Pking and coop. /boast.

too harshly by fucking minigun arrows, robots (in D2 of all places)

I don't care much for lore-fagging the Diablo universe, but whatever floats your boat.

Invulnerables screwing you over - i meant the pouncing purple witches that you can do jack shit about, not the uber challenges. Those add nothing to the experience if they can't be killed.

You can manipulate their positioning using decoys. They're also spawned to add lethality and prevent mindless traversing of the map, you have to listen out for them. omg, a slight demand for awareness/attention, how dare they?

If you're going to mod, then you know how to code. If you know how to code, then you should probably pick up basic spriting skills to compliment your setup.

Most coders would justifiably tell you to fuck off, I've met hardly any coders in my life that were also gifted pixel artists and animators (and vice versa). What do you want, every modder to be a fucking universal genius like Goethe?

The D3 folks?

Newsflash - they won't be back to D2, ever.

I think they went to that camp partly due to the horribly pixelated by modern standards graphics and resolution, the immunities just slapping you as a hard counter and the game forcing you into Baal runs to be efficient.

While those are valid criticisms of D2 that I share, they're not why people left. They left because there was a new Diablo game. Some came back, but not many.

That and the teleport on Enigma, nothing was a bigger fuckup than letting every character teleport indefinitely.

It was a great runeword for summon necros because it helped manipulate summon positioning, which was a nightmare. But I share your view here, too.

Charges are far more limiting and acceptable,

Recharging was too expensive.

Mount and Blade could require skill, Diablo only requires patience.

I beat Prophecy of Pendor - widely regarded as one of the hardest Warband mods - easier than I beat Ultimative. I'm fairly adept at both, but I think Ultimative challenges my twitch skills and focus more.

Oh and you still act like an absolute twat and i wonder what you get out of this thread really. Codex terminology aside, you could be far more neutral if you want people to give the mod a try.

I've been mostly patient and reasonable despite the ignorance, trolling and shitposting in this topic. Sure, I've been a bit bitchy at times, but you coming in saying I wasn't a human being or whatever meant I was never gonna be polite to you. I'm fairly new too, and even though I didn't start off with an insult my Codex welcome was nevertheless contending with Volourn...
 

Leonorai

Novice
Joined
Oct 6, 2014
Messages
35
Ideally the mod would focus a lot less on just stacking as many on-hit effects as possible, because that just makes a whole lot of the expanded item catalogue feel very samey. The disco skill was the dev clearly taking the piss, knowing fully well that that's what the builds have become.

It's clear that you care about mechanics more than anything else, so let's talk a bit about those.

Do you agree that the witches should be invulnerable? Positioning doesn't really make up for characters lost and doesn't feel like properly overcoming the enemy.

There's also the matter of the deathstrike from the countess and a few others, which can really start to grate after a while.

I appreciate the attempt at making it a more skillful experience, as much as it's possible in an isometric game like this, but some of the features feel like he just liked to mess with people. Like those giants in the tower cellar turning you into a boar, slowing you down needlessly before they die.
 
Self-Ejected

Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
5,274
Witches bothered me at first, then I realized later doing ubers that there are many enemies that just can't be killed or are best bypassed. And in my Hardcore stock D2 runs I didn't always have build/items that could defeat all enemies, for example ele/phys-immunes. So I just sort of shrugged and dealt with it.

I definitely felt at times the dev was trolling me, and yeah, the first feeling came in the sewers with polymorph-to-boar so your FRW/IAS is nerfed to fuck. It really annoyed the hell out of me, this can also happen in Forgotten Tower. I'd like it removed.

Poison dmg in Act 2 was so potent that I nearly gave up on my first run back with MXLv005. Basically, the mod demands you have max psn resist for that act, fullstop. Now that I've got more knowledge of the game and upped my personal skills, it doesn't concern me.

The first long segment of Act3 before Lower Kurast also trolled me, the sirens casting floating blue barriers across your pathway and when you touched them it was like being pally-charged, it made an already aggravating segment even worse. Stacked FRW lets you sprint through before they can cast, though.

I found a sacred unique belt in Fauztinville and ID'd it, came up as "tl;dr" and gave +500hps. It seems amusing now, but at the time I raged.

Some of the challenges also feel like jumping through unreasonable hoops, and I don't like collecting monster tokens and shit like that.

There's lots of pure shit included in the mod and it can be frustrating and exhausting, but for me that's far outweighed by the build nuance, various mechanics and pace.
 

Siobhan

Arbiter
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
472
Location
1X 1Y 2Z
Reply to the one point in my post that I said didn't matter all that much
I know you're sick of this already, but what about the other points? That stuff is completely independent of which patch one picks.

On a different note, Din's Curse was just released on GOG. I remember some codexers praising it as the best Hack'n'Slash ever, but opinions are all over the place. VaultDweller liked it:
http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/index.php/topic,1426.0.html

Din's Curse or MXL? Discuss!
:troll:
 

palmito

Educated
Joined
Aug 4, 2013
Messages
33
Location
Argentina
Median xl ultimative is just a shitty mod, for a meh game, made by a kid from my country. It's much better diablo 1 + the hell mod, trust me.
I tried many times to like it, but I couldn't. This is the last 'trailer', more rainbow shit, imposible

 

Goat Pervertor

Prospernaut
Possibly Retarded
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Messages
83
ne doesn't simply step into the first level of the cathedral in D1 and see zombies/skeletons whateverthefuck?
Operative word being "into".

Before you enter the desecrated cathedral with weird and macabre shit going in it the exact count of demons, undead and otherwise unnatural things seen by you is zero. In D2 you'd first spend about 25% of the game killing zombies playing on the lawn outside before even stepping in.

Yes exactly they are in the Monastery but in D2 they are everywhere. Like the entire country is full of zombies. Its unrealistic... Like its Resident Evil or something.


Also the music in that trailer... with the vocals OhhhhhhhOohhhhhhhOhhhhh :lol: im sorry i know im a diablo redneck but this whole mod just cracks me up. Oh boy
 
Self-Ejected

Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
5,274
I wasn't laughing at your Spanish spelling on an English-speaking forum, I was laughing cuz you think MXL:U is "impossible".

No need to get your panties in a twist.
 

Lhynn

Arcane
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
9,824
I wasn't laughing at your Spanish spelling on an English-speaking forum, I was laughing cuz you think MXL:U is "impossible".

No need to get your panties in a twist.
He said it was impossible to fit in more "rainbow shit" in a single trailer. And i agree, perhaps it is enjoyable if you are into the metagame of diablo 2, but for anyone else, at all, it looks like shit.
 

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
14,982
Rainbow shit is optional btw. While certain areas will have a shitton of various enemy projectiles, most do not, and player builds generally don't actually benefit that much from having some shit level 4 spell getting spammed for 200 damage alongside your actual 50k damage attacks. And obviously any sort of spellcaster build won't proc anything except on kill effects.

The only particularly obnoxious shit I have on my current character is a couple of the reanimates having annoyingly flashy spells. One of them was actually quite useful in lower levels for the freeze duration, but the other is just something I've been too lazy to replace. But the reanimate chances are like 8% and 1%, so it's not exactly a clusterfuck.
 

Baron Dupek

Arcane
Joined
Jul 23, 2013
Messages
1,870,765
Some:necro:

testing mods considered as "better that eyemelting MXL" and stopped at Eastern Sun.
Fucking hell modding in this games in strange, need various version for different mods and else.

Anyway...got some fun with ES but shit is unstable. Google my error (UNHANDLED EXCEPTION: INT_DIVIDE_BY_ZERO), found two topics. Both give answers like "do you installed it properly", "use launcher.exe not game.exe", "reinstall all over again" and similiar basic stuff that doesn't help. Rest is "but it work for me!". Duh.

Installation is confusing. It constalntly say "IT'S FOR 1.10 VERSION MATE" only to not working on 1.10 patch. Then patch 1.12 make the game to actually run.

Anyone found working solution?
 

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