NWN2: Mask of the betrayer announced. O RLLY?

[serch]

http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=559062&forum=109

Besides the boring title:

Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer’s engrossing campaign will conclude the storyline that began in the original Neverwinter Nights 2 and focus on combat, exploration and classic D&D dungeon-crawling,” said Feargus Urquhart, CEO, Obsidian Entertainment. “We’re also making new advances in story and character development as well as improving upon the acclaimed companion Influence System used in both Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords and Neverwinter Nights 2.

 

[Micmu]

improving upon the acclaimed companion Influence System

By "improving", do they mean you will be able to get rid of the obnoxious fuckers or at least not let them join you? If no, they get another fuck off from me.

 

[bozia2012]

<<SPOILAR>>
The funniest thing that some of these forced companions betray you if you had low influence on them (they say you never gave a fuck about them). What the shit? You "invite" an yeevil ranger to your party and you have to lick his balls even if you're a righteous monk?

 

[Jim Kata]

<<SPOILAR>>
The funniest thing that some of these forced companions betray you if you had low influence on them (they say you never gave a fuck about them). What the shit? You "invite" an yeevil ranger to your party and you have to lick his balls even if you're a righteous monk?

Yeah, the whole ending of the game was an abortion.

 

[Surgey]

Yeah, that's what really made me angry. They forced themselves into your party then they betrayed you. Still, at least it's an opportunity to kill them.

 

[Jim Kata]

Yeah, that's what really made me angry. They forced themselves into your party then they betrayed you. Still, at least it's an opportunity to kill them.

I was playing a lawful good cleric. I am pretty sure he would have completely refused any help from that idiot, or at the least killed him for any of 120 things he did.

 

[Admiral Rimjob POOBUM]

<<SPOILAR>>
The funniest thing that some of these forced companions betray you if you had low influence on them (they say you never gave a fuck about them). What the shit? You "invite" an yeevil ranger to your party and you have to lick his balls even if you're a righteous monk?

Yeah, the whole ending of the game was an abortion.

Ending spilers above

 

[Fez]

You just saved me a lot of hours and money. Thanks.

 

[whitemithrandir]

huh. Thanks for the spoiler.

 

[Jasede]

Yeah, that's what really made me angry. They forced themselves into your party then they betrayed you. Still, at least it's an opportunity to kill them.

I was playing a lawful good cleric. I am pretty sure he would have completely refused any help from that idiot, or at the least killed him for any of 120 things he did.

Reminder: I have not played, nor will I play NWN 2-

But...
...can't you just say no?

"No, fuck off! Don't join!"? I mean, they can't force you to have certain party-members! That would be like Final Fantasy!!

 

[Jim Kata]

Yeah, that's what really made me angry. They forced themselves into your party then they betrayed you. Still, at least it's an opportunity to kill them.

I was playing a lawful good cleric. I am pretty sure he would have completely refused any help from that idiot, or at the least killed him for any of 120 things he did.

Reminder: I have not played, nor will I play NWN 2-

But...
...can't you just say no?

"No, fuck off! Don't join!"? I mean, they can't force you to have certain party-members! That would be like Final Fantasy!!

I said, even shouted "No." at the screen many, many times while playing NWN2. It had little effect on the actual gameplay, unfortunately.

Basically for virtually every mission at least one (Often really retarded) party member is forced on you.

That would be acceptable if they just put them in the party in addition to your party of x characters, but no, you have to take one out and shuffle them around every time. When you put int he fact you craft items for these losers and all that, then completely lose them forever in some cases, or have them unexpectedly change to a completely new class...well, then it becomes ridiculous.

Then at the end of the game, about half of them betrayed me. In most cases the results were rather surprising. Really, ammon jerro, who disagreed with everything I said, supports me now?

Dipshit sorceror chick whose life I saved 500 times betrays me? How's that work? iefling chick, who agreed with everything I said betrayed me, too?

 

[denizsi]

who agreed with everything I said betrayed me, too?

No, she didn't (agree with everything you said). She only did a damn good job of making you believe in her obediance and good nature; she's such a complex character! -imaginary response from Bioware.

 

[Admiral Rimjob POOBUM]

who agreed with everything I said betrayed me, too?

No, she didn't (agree with everything you said). She only did a damn good job of making you believe in her obediance and good nature; she's such a complex character! -imaginary response from Bioware.

Obsidian, even.
Anna (or whatever her name was) didn't betray me, surprisingly. You need a very high influence, which mostly comes down to letting her throw stupid insults at the stupid demons in Ammon Jerro's stupid haven-maze thing.

 

[Surgey]

Not to mention, if you're a Paladin, it's just plain against the rules to adventure with someone evil...

Associates

While she may adventure with characters of any good or neutral alignment, a paladin will never knowingly associate with evil characters, nor will she continue an association with someone who consistently offends her moral code. A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good.

There's a Paladin party member who joins you, and you can be a Paladin... hmm... And if you're evil, that Paladin still joins you.

But...
...can't you just say no?

Nope. It's forced party member join rape. If you do try to say No, they'll just make up some retarded excuse that wouldn't change your mind in real life, then your choices for dialogue are stuff like "Okay, then join with us!" and "Well, I don't trust you, but you can come with us!"

I was playing a lawful good cleric. I am pretty sure he would have completely refused any help from that idiot, or at the least killed him for any of 120 things he did.

Yeah I tried to piss him off every chance I got. That and Qin or whatever that sorceress bitch's name was. I used her as my damaging caster until I got Sand, and every time she opened her mouth and I replied, it was always something like "INFLUENCE LOST WITH BITCH: -8" or some shit. Even the tame ones make you lose tons, like the ones like "Destroying everything isn't going to help," to which she shouts at you like "YES IT WILL ARRGGH IM QIX IM A DUMB BITCH!"

 

[Pegultagol]

Maybe you should be able to gain influence depending on the time that you just 'talk' to them or how many times you cast 'heal' or interact within and the context of combat. How about tracking the type of armor that you equip on characters more robustly not to just end up as a quip from an enemy NPC after that 'abortion' of a plot twist?

And how about letting you to use your companion's skills when appropriate so you can at least find development of NPCs a little more fruitful?

 

[JrK]

Yeah I tried to piss him off every chance I got. That and Qin or whatever that sorceress bitch's name was. I used her as my damaging caster until I got Sand, and every time she opened her mouth and I replied, it was always something like "INFLUENCE LOST WITH BITCH: -8" or some shit. Even the tame ones make you lose tons, like the ones like "Destroying everything isn't going to help," to which she shouts at you like "YES IT WILL ARRGGH IM QIX IM A DUMB BITCH!"

That beeotch was so insane that even if I were a paladin, I would have smitten her on the spot for the plainly evil things she wants. Even for the not trying to listen to me part would I have smitten her. Also, I would have kicked Bishop's ass right at the start to make him know he isn't in any position to bitch about my decisions. Sadly, none of these things are possible.

 

[Monica21]

I think the forced party member thing is a little overdone here. You don't have to take anyone with you everywhere all the time, except for Shandra in act 2. You have to take Casavir to find that orc clan, you have to take Bishop to find Shandra, and you have to take Sand when you're trying to prove your innocence. Other quests where you "have" to take a party member are optional. I think that's basically it. You can leave Khelgar, Neeshka and Elanee in Neverwinter as soon as you get there, along with additional party members.

As for influence, why would Jerro, who's spent at least a few generations and some time on the Lower Planes trying to kill the King of Shadows, join with him? That's the part that wouldn't make sense, not that he just doesn't like you. There are characters who will never betray you, and the reasons are pretty clear.

I have bigger problems with the game than just forced party members, like not being able to rob that guy's house in a totally stealthy way, not being able to use other party members' skills, and the unfortunate fact that party members are just meat shields that I have to suck up to to gain influence.

 

[taxacaria]

the unfortunate fact that party members are just meat shields that I have to suck up to to gain influence.

KotoR feelings?

 

[Jim Kata]

I think the forced party member thing is a little overdone here. You don't have to take anyone with you everywhere all the time, except for Shandra in act 2. You have to take Casavir to find that orc clan, you have to take Bishop to find Shandra, and you have to take Sand when you're trying to prove your innocence. Other quests where you "have" to take a party member are optional. I think that's basically it. You can leave Khelgar, Neeshka and Elanee in Neverwinter as soon as you get there, along with additional party members.

As for influence, why would Jerro, who's spent at least a few generations and some time on the Lower Planes trying to kill the King of Shadows, join with him? That's the part that wouldn't make sense, not that he just doesn't like you. There are characters who will never betray you, and the reasons are pretty clear.

I have bigger problems with the game than just forced party members, like not being able to rob that guy's house in a totally stealthy way, not being able to use other party members' skills, and the unfortunate fact that party members are just meat shields that I have to suck up to to gain influence.

Once you get to the city, you have to have some loser with you for every quest of any importance.

You are the one belittling the issue, because it's virtually any quest of any signifigance.

You have to have the gith chick to go to song stone or whatever the fuck it is.

You illogically have to have ammon jerro to go to kill the first reaver even if you have a scroll for the gith chick, too.

You have to take shandra to ammon jerro's hideout and having her die is unavoidable even though I was the most powerful cleric in the forgotten realms by that point.

Then you have to have ammon jerro to go back with your village.

Yes, some of the quests are optional, but every major nonoptional quest demands you have a party member go with you once you get into the palace. Every single one of them. Since the only real fun of the game is building a party and crafting items for everyone, forcing you to take on different party members all the time is a huge annoyance.

 

[Volourn]

"even though I was the most powerful cleric in the forgotten realms by that point."

Fuckin' liar.

 

[Admiral Rimjob POOBUM]

Oh, shut up.

 

[Volourn]

........

 

[kingcomrade]

8==|}~~

 

[RK47]

I hated the enforced 'take me' party system more than anything else. It limits my choice, because no matter what I do all conversation will end up into me taking the NPC anyway. Unlike Baldur's gate where I can turn them down or outright kill them, I have no choice at all.

Even worse is the 'no killing' rule of certain NPC that would be perfectly fine when allowed to in some quests is just not there. 'You cannot attack this NPC' huh? What's wrong with backstabbing a few bandits for more gold?

I know I will get my ass kicked by Lord Nasher if I swing a sword at him, just let me. And let him call the guards like Lord British and have a little of chaos. I wanna take on the Neverwinter Nine and see how long my party will last.

 

[cutterjohn]

I'm still working on killing the second orc group, eyegouger IIRC(haven't played in months waiting to try the 1.05 patch(if it ever gets released again) or maybe 1.06).

Dialog options in NWN2 don't seem to do very much other than get you plus or minus "influence" points with a particular character now and then, and maybe a single dialog screen that is different but it always seems to end up in the same dialog "path" no matter what option you choose, or so I found when I "tested" it briefly when I was getting bored with NWN2. IIRC NWN1 is like this as well, except that it didn't have the influence points thing.

Still better than most other recent RPGs though, but thats not saying much...