Jagged Alliance: Drug Flashback

[sser]

Seriously though, is this going to be the nail in the coffin for future JA?

 

[Athelas]

I don't think there was ever much of a chance for a full revival to begin with - the JA franchise is way more obscure than the other RPG's that have gotten spiritual sequels recently.

 

[The_scorpion]

A good JA sequel can still be done. They'd have to hire a few non-retarded people though that don't constantly take bad decisions. and they'r scarce in this industry.

 

[Zombra]

Seriously though, is this going to be the nail in the coffin for future JA?

No more than BIA was, or JA Online, or Jagged Alliance 3, or god knows how many others.

 

[Infinitron]

Seriously though, is this going to be the nail in the coffin for future JA?

No more than BIA was, or JA Online, or Jagged Alliance 3, or god knows how many others.

Well, he didn't say "final nail".

I wonder if they tried to find a publisher or investor for this game after the big success of D:OS. You could sell the game to them as "Divinity with guns", with similarly colorful graphics and stuff, and get more budget to develop the game for another year. Maybe someday we'll find out what happened.

 

[Executr]

Already discounted at half its price on Steam, this weekend. I guess sales have been rather poor.
On one hand I feel sad the devs ran out of cash, on the other I'm amazed how they thought they could make a game, worthy of having JA on the name, with only the amount they asked on the KS.

Let's see how the BP guys will save (finish) it with mods, if that's even happening...

 

[Abu Antar]

It's been on sale a few times already. Only reason I haven't bought it is because of this thread.

 

[StaticSpine]

So the game is shit and can be removed out of Steam wishlist?

 

[Sensuki]

Be pretty funny if JES doesn't even bother to redeem his key.

He only backed it because people were complaining about them teaming up with a publisher.

 

[spectre]

I not removed it from the inventory just to have a look-see. I will report more when I have time, but otherwise, not impressed: the whole thing reeks of amateur work,
right from the 3d backdrop in the main menu. It's doubly disgusting with the JA name slapped onto it.

Impression 1:
Yes, we start with an AIM(sic!) profiling test for a custom merc. Mad props FC, keeping it real to the original.
Unfortunately, after this we're dropped into the game all alone, no way to get a custom squad from an AIM website.
Gess that would be too hard for 2014.

My quick observation here is this:
Why the FUCK do you fucking fuck with the proven fucking JA system that fucking works?
Why does it have to be: earn exp by killing then levelup?
Why do you screw with the number of stats?

By this time you can probably tell I am biased, but why shouldn't I be when you wave the JA name to my face and then all I get is a cockblock and mediocricity?
I had faint hopes that Full Control will slavishly copy the original mechanics like they did with Space Hulk. Well, there goes that.

I only played 10 minutes of the first map. Killed two guys, it was all pew pew pew with a pistol at point blank range.
Didn't get any phat lewt (even though I saw one using a pistol and an smg, the other had a rifle and a pistol),
but I guess I got spoiled by 1.13 drop all.

The controls are as clunky and teblet-y as I remember from the last beta build.
As expected, the writing is uninspired and tryhard.

However, there are nice touches as well, I like the varied gun stats with a nice ballistic curve which accounts for both damage and accuracy drop as range increases.

I will report moar later when I have more time and get over my initial disgust. Two questions remain:
a) does it stand on its own as a turn based squad game?
b) will modders be able to fix this?

 

[Zombra]

What the fuck? They went with an xp system? Seriously?

 

[spectre]

Seems like I was wrong about the exp system, but I need to play a bit more to confirm. I saw the progress bar under Experience and a big ass "Level Up" button and naturally assumed the worst.
What can I say, the trauma and butthurt from Back in Action is still strong with me.
If you show me a dolly doll, I can still point to where Shitcomposer has touched me.

After shooting some guys, a progress bar started to fill up under Marksmanship, so there is hope that it's actually Halal.
The big inactive "level up" icon, which leads me to believe that there wll be some points to spend here, or maybe some other choice to be made.
I've yet to levelup, so I can't say what do we get, my bet it's to choose perks and/or points to spend.

Anyways, the system appears to look like this:
There are three stats: Physique (hit points), Coordination (action points), Intelligence (exp gain and morale (sic)).

Then we get 6 skills which form a separate category: Shooting, Medical, Mechanical, Explosion, Melee, Stealth which determines .

On top of that, each char seems to have 4 perks, this is minor stuff like slightly increased vision range, accuracy bonuses when close, reduced AP costs for various stuff etc..

Not terrible, it's obvious they wanted to streamline the JA2 system for modern audiences a bit, I will give them the benefit of the doubt for the moment.


I looked into the hire Mercs tab, it's available after I left the first sector. It teleports new guys right into my squad... which makes little fucking sense, but eh.

First impressions on the roster:
Mostly familiar faces from JA2 as well a few new ones. Since apparently this game is supposed to be a prequel, the guys indeed look like less badass, younger versions of themselves.
Portraits are hit or miss. Some are nice, others are pretty bad (I can see Shadow's fanbase will not be impressed here).

As expected, the writing in the bios and item descriptions oscillates between mediocre and bland. Obviously the kickstarter money wasn't enough to hire a native speaking editor,
and the guy at FC doing the writing is struggling to do so in his second language.

I didn't get much chance to check the voice acting, just a few lines from each guy. It appears that they made an effort to pick guys who sound jsut about right.
Unfortunately (from the limited sample I'd heard) apart from sounding ok, the delivery seems to suffer and the lines feel forced compared to the original lines.

While my initial disgust appears to have settled, the first impression stands - can't shake the feeling that what I got is a chinese knockoff (though it may be slightly reinforced by the fact that the release I got is chinese). It does feel better than the unfortunate previous attempts, but just barely.

 

[Shaewaroz]

b) will modders be able to fix this?

Modders can only fix minor annoyances in otherwise great games. No mod has ever turned a turd into something playable. People need to let go of the hope that modders will somehow save poorly developed games.

 

[spectre]

No mod has ever turned a turd into something playable.

Yeah, maybe apart from the shitload of stuff you shouldn't really play unmodded: 7.62 high caliber, new sexcum, New Vegas, the whole Mount and Blade thing, Civilization 4, Europa Barbarorum, Medieval 2, Master of Orion 3, or anything by Paradox... and more. Faggit.

 

[Burning Bridges]

Exactly what you could expect with a 3rd rate team of guys.

 

[poetic codex]

Seriously though, is this going to be the nail in the coffin for future JA?

No more than BIA was, or JA Online, or Jagged Alliance 3, or god knows how many others.

Someone said that JA is a strange franchise where it is "long ignored by the industry but never forgotten by the fans."

What this game needs is a AAA developer with the funds to modernize the game like they did with XCOM enemy unknown/within. I never would have imagined myself saying this, but this is the one case where I am in favor of a AAA developer/publisher. Why? Fund$. Jagged Alliance 2 is a game where the voice acting, and cutscenes helped to give personality to the mercs, and immersed you into the world. This is the main thing that Flashback (and the other "sequels" like 7.62 etc.) lacks. The core game mechanic is there, but the game needs a AAA level funding to give the game that personality it so sorely lacks in all of these JA "sequels."

If you can't get that cheesy action film humorous atmosphere right, then don't even bother trying to make a JA game, imo.

 

[Athelas]

Someone said that JA is a strange franchise where it is "long ignored by the industry but never forgotten by the fans."

It doesn't have many fans either - it's relatively obscure compared to other cRPG properties (Baldur's Gate, Torment, Fallout).

What this game needs is a AAA developer with the funds to modernize the game like they did with XCOM enemy unknown/within. I never would have imagined myself saying this, but this is the one case where I am in favor of a AAA developer/publisher. Why? Fund$. Jagged Alliance 2 is a game where the voice acting, and cutscenes helped to give personality to the mercs, and immersed you into the world. This is the main thing that Flashback (and the other "sequels" like 7.62 etc.) lacks. The core game mechanic is there, but the game needs a AAA level funding to give the game that personality it so sorely lacks in all of these JA "sequels."

If you can't get that cheesy action film humorous atmosphere right, then don't even bother trying to make a JA game, imo.

You are forgetting that AAA games also have typically bad writing. And of course there would be the inevitable dumbing down and loss of complexity.

 

[poetic codex]

^Who can tell? The mere fact that they're still chugging out second-rate Jagged Alliance clones after all these years means that the fan base can't be that tiny.

Xcom enemy unknown was "dumbed down" but it was still an enjoyable game because it had the core turn-based combat, base management, and creepy alien vibe from the original games. I would accept a little bit of dumbing down from a triple A Jagged alliance game if they can get the vibe right. In this case, bad writing might actually help because the game is supposed to be cheesy

 

[Shaewaroz]

It doesn't have many fans either - it's relatively obscure compared to other cRPG properties (Baldur's Gate, Torment, Fallout).

This is only due to the fact that RPGs are more mainstream than strategy games. In the field of strategy games JA is one of the most respected and beloved franchises.

 

[Infinitron]

This is only due to the fact that RPGs are more mainstream than strategy games. In the field of strategy games JA is one of the most respected and beloved franchises.

Uh, define "strategy games". Do you really want to put JA next to Civilization and Starcraft?

Even if you're talking tactical turn-based skirmish games only, X-COM seems to have had a more enduring and widespread reputation, and I mean even before the Firaxis reboot.

 

[Shaewaroz]

Yea, I was speaking in broad terms - RPGs are much more popular and mainstream than even the most beloved strategy game franchises. I don't want to use a more specific definition because the point I was making was also a generalization.

Well, can you name more strategy game franscises other than Civilization and Starcraft that are more broadly beloved than JA? I don't think franchises like Crusader Kings (or other Paradox games) or Men of War can come even close to JA's reputation. The man was implying that JA doesn't have a (comparatively) broad fan base. I find that hard to believe.

 

[Athelas]

http://steamcharts.com/app/203770

http://steamcharts.com/app/12370

 

[Shaewaroz]

http://steamcharts.com/app/203770

http://steamcharts.com/app/12370

Steam charts don't help to convince me about this matter. JA2 was released 16 years ago - there are a lot of people that absolutely adore it but played it last time 10 years ago. How many people have even tried CK I which was released 6 years after JA2? http://steamcharts.com/app/204940

I actually love CK I, but it doesn't have similar cult following as JA2. People can play JA2 with the original CD or have the GOG version whereas all available CK II versions had Steam DRM on launch (dunno if this is still the case).

EDIT: Just checked and confirmed that CK II is not available on GOG.

 

[Zombra]

Yeah, and I wonder how many people will still be playing CKII 10 years from now.

As far as a AAA JA goes, I don't think that's what the series really "needs" especially. I doubt that the original JA was even a million dollar game. We don't need Patrick Stewart and Liam Neeson reading merc barks. I do agree that getting the "vibe" right is hugely important, but cheap unknown voice actors would be fine, probably even better for the vibe than big ticket pros. Of course awesome gameplay systems wouldn't hurt, but big money doesn't guarantee great gameplay and low budget doesn't mean crap gameplay. It's more a question of who designs it.

I guess what is needed is a combination of the right attitude, voice direction that "gets it", and enough money for the right creative and design leads to fulfill their vision. Money, yes; big money, not necessarily.

 

[Infinitron]

The Crusader Kings series will be getting sequels for the foreseeable future, so in ten years people will be playing the latest installment, not CK2. It is incredibly popular, a cult hit of our times - I'd say it's likely that it's got a larger fanbase than JA at this point.