About the first Jagged Alliance

[Essegi]

I've never played a game of JA series.
All says that 2 is better than the first.
Is there any point to play JA1 and not directly 2, considering i don't care to play all games of the series?
Could be JA1 a good tutorial for 2 that is very hard (as far as i've read)?

 

[SCO]

'very hard'


More seriously, the JA series has a funny sort of continuity based around the mercs personalities and histories. If you don't play JA1 some not insignificant part of the jokes and allusions will pass you by.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

Is there any point to play JA1 and not directly 2, considering i don't care to play all games of the series?

If you're planning to play only one, as much as I like 1 and "Deadly games", I'd say no. Go straight for 2, as good as the previous ones may be (and they are) it's still by far the best of the lot.

 

[laclongquan]

There is? Names, please? It sounds curious.

 

[Burning Bridges]

http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/ubbt...A2_1_Metavira_The_Official_In.html#Post317288

The last update seems version 0.5 and it was October 2013. Does that mean the mod was left half finished or does it?

 

[Burning Bridges]

Ok I have read it. So they may be working on it, somehow, sometime. I have seen enough mods before to understand that they are at 60% or so and started doing other things before this one was finished.

 

[Essegi]

Thanks guys, i'll go straight for 2 then!

'very hard'

I've read somewhere topics of people saying they got raped by that game. Maybe it's just important to learn how to play.

 

[m_s0]

All says that 2 is better than the first.

I agree with this All person.

Is there any point to play JA1 and not directly 2, considering i don't care to play all games of the series?

Yes. JA1, JA: DG and JA2 are excellent games. UB is fun and definitely worth it if you're hungry for more after JA2, and if you need to have WF sold to you don't bother with it. It's pretty much for the most starved JA2 fanatics only.

If you enjoy 2 by all means go back to 1.

Could be JA1 a good tutorial for 2 that is very hard (as far as i've read)?

No. Not more so than any other tactical squad game, at least.

 

[spectre]

The only thing you really need to know is how to aim the guns with the right click and how to work the game menus, and that's basic RTFM.
Start on easy, get a balanced team and it's a great and not too difficult game (unless, you know, that whole strategy thing is not for you). Most people who got "raped" played on Insane difficulty and/or used the 1.13 mod so don't worry about this just yet.

Now, regarding whether to play JA1, this depends. If you don't mind the graphics and slightly clunky controls, I'd say go for it. If you start with JA2 (like I did), you'll find that JA1 is much harder to get into, simply because JA2 does all the things better.
Why would you ever play JA1 then? I guess it's just to see how the series progressed and see some of the stuff first hand that was only hinted in JA2 - like what's all the fuss about Mike, how did some of the merc relations develop, etc.
If you give a toss about that sort of thing, that is.

 

[m_s0]

I disagree with the attitude that JA1 should only be played as a (story) prequel to JA2. It definitely feels archaic in terms of every element JA2 updated and did better (so interface, mechanics, audiovisuals etc.), but it's not difficult to get used to the clunky bits and the gameplay easily stands on its own to this day. I prefer the sequel by far, but JA1 (and DG) is still incredibly addictive.

 

[Essegi]

Thanks for your opinions too.
I still think i'll go for 2 (i've really loads of games to chose from and not much time), but i haven't any problems with old graphics. Improved interface is more important.
Of course i won't use 1.13 for first play.

 

[Neckbeard Shitlord]

I wouldn't play them out of order. Jagged Alliance is a better game in many, even most ways. JA2 is basically more 'storyfag' and introduces more cutscenes than JA1, but the mercs in JA 1 are more hilarious in many ways.

JA 2 is also more complicated too and if you start with it, you will probably get frustrated by having to split up multiple squads and crap like that. That stuff is not as big a deal when you already understand what's going on, but even when you do it's enough extra complication. It has a lot of 'kitchen sink syndrome' in JA 2 as well, and this is ten times worse in JA 2.13, which is an abortion.

It's also the only game I've played with fully voice-acted inventory, which is a must to experience at least once. All the expansions and mods are kind of shit, but I did get through the first expansion to JA 1 and it is nice in that it will let you play forever if you want.

Since JA 1 doesn't really take that much time to play, there's really no reason to skip it anyway.

 

[m_s0]

JA2 is basically more 'storyfag' and introduces more cutscenes than JA1

That's unfairly reductive.

JA 2 is also more complicated too and if you start with it, you will probably get frustrated by having to split up multiple squads and crap like that.

There is something to be said about JA1's (relative) simplicity and the flow it gives the game. It's a very boiled-down experience, and arguably one that's more (and I hate the term) immersive. JA2 is anything but boiled-down as it gives you a lot more to play with and customize, which isn't a bad thing at all.

As for JA2's complexity, well, I really do feel that all of the additions make the mechanics and interface more natural and easier to grasp. Everything in JA2 works the way you'd expect it to, despite the additions. Plus, I don't consider all the little 'hidden' things like the crafting system, which, yes, add an additional layer of complexity, but are completely optional and fun to discover in JA2, a bad thing at all. The kitchen sink approach starts in 1.13, there's no denying that. JA2 keeps it in check while providing a reasonably complex experience that's a step forward from JA.

I'd say that due to the nature of the changes JA2 made to the formula whether one prefers the other is purely a matter of taste with the interface being the only clearly inferior element of JA - hence why I'd recommend JA1 so strongly.

 

[Neckbeard Shitlord]

That's unfairly reductive.

That's just one point, but in addition some of the feel is off for the second one. The crap with omerta is kind of boring and annoying, and too serious.

There is something to be said about JA1's (relative) simplicity and the flow it gives the game. It's a very boiled-down experience, and arguably one that's more (and I hate the term) immersive. JA2 is anything but boiled-down as it gives you a lot more to play with and customize, which isn't a bad thing at all.

As for JA2's complexity, well, I really do feel that all of the additions make the mechanics and interface more natural and easier to grasp. Everything in JA2 works the way you'd expect it to, despite the additions. Plus, I don't consider all the little 'hidden' things like the crafting system, which, yes, add an additional layer of complexity, but are completely optional and fun to discover in JA2, a bad thing at all. The kitchen sink approach starts in 1.13, there's no denying that. JA2 keeps it in check while providing a reasonably complex experience that's a step forward from JA.

I'd say that due to the nature of the changes JA2 made to the formula whether one prefers the other is purely a matter of taste with the interface being the only clearly inferior element of JA - hence why I'd recommend JA1 so strongly.

Jagged Alliance 1 is a better, tighterr game as a stratgey game. The maps are a lot better and the limited equipment forces you to play in a very "you are there" way. In JA 2 you quickly move to long range weapons and to high power mercs, and instead of a game where you sneak up on bad guys and kill them with a letter opener it turns into something more like rambo.

In JA 1 you slowly work your way up to A-team status at the end. In JA 2 you start off almost at A-Team status and quickly go into Rambo territory and beyond. Especially since you get get lots of night fighting equipment and long range weapons and other things that make it a snap to take down large groups. In JA 1 you have maps that you have to be very careful on, and you will probably have to retreat quite a bit.

There's nothing really wrong with the interface either.

They are both great games but JA 1 is a better balanced all around unflawed perfect game. JA 2 is one of the best games ever made but it has some niggles and flaws and some things it did not get right compared to JA 1 in the feel of the game and in the maps and balancing. Not to mention the dumb scifi shit which is annoying even when you turn it off because you constantly get attacks from underneath your mines.

So like I said, I would not skip it. If you don't want to play JA 2 after playing JA 1 then this series just isn't for you.

 

[Essegi]

Jagged Alliance 1 is a better, tighterr game as a stratgey game. cut

It seems you have some good points.
Maybe i just should shut up and play 1st first then 2nd. In the worst case it should still be better than many other games.

 

[Shaewaroz]

I really feel Jagged Alliance is under appreciated for the awesome game it really is. It's not just JA2 with worse graphics, UI and less variety as many new fags seem to believe. Here's a couple of examples how JA1 surpasses it's sequel:

- Story events. JA has story events that have absolutely huge impact into the whole playthrough. Many of these events are semi random and can be triggered at different times and in a multitude of ways. In JA2 story events have only short term effect (like Kingpin's assassins) or no effects at all (Deidranna's empty treats).

- The Story. Everything you do in JA feels meaningful and relevant to the story. The pacing is also great, where as in JA2 you could play tens of hours without any story progression.

- Music & Dialogue. JA2 has more dialogue, but the actual quality of the dialogue is exactly the same in both games (the same voice actors). On the other hand, JA's music is much better than JA2's. JA2 has mostly music that is either indifferent or annoyingly repetitive. In JA music both during tactical combat and base management is absolutely excellent and memorable.

- The strategic elements. In JA1 You have to win the natives trust to be able to hire militia and sappers. There are numerous ways how natives can either like or dislike you more - native casualties, story events and salary all contribute to how many workers you'll have available. Also defending sectors is in a more prominent role since all sectors usually have something of value, unlike in JA2 where only mines and sam sites are valuable.

- Reactivity and RPG immersion. JA1 often reacts to player actions in a very intriguing ways. The game manual for instance doesn't tell the player that mine detector can be used for finding treasures and that wall probe can be used to get information about enemy supply drop dates and even about were a missing NPC can be found. The game rewards exploration and experimentation. This complexity and reactivity is simply mind-blowing from a game made in 1994.

- Encrypted messages. You can find clues about enemy weapon supply delivery dates and places through encrypted messages that Lucas Santino is sending to his troops. These messages have REAL encryptions and you will have to use your OWN brain to solve them - no amount of intelligence stat from a merc is going to help you here. The best part is that the internet, at least to this day, doesn't offer answers on how these messages can be decoded. I've used hours trying to decode some of these messages and still don't know what some of them mean.


Jagged Alliance is an amazing game, it has definitely stood the test of time. I honestly don't feel that enthusiastic about the mod trying to remake JA1 into JA2 engine - the game is fine the way it is, it doesn't need graphical enhancement.

 

[Essegi]

Thanks. Maybe story thing is not on my top priority (not that is bad point by any means :D), but reactivity and story event stuff intrigues me and also music is appreciated.

 

[Norfleet]

- Story events. JA has story events that have absolutely huge impact into the whole playthrough. Many of these events are semi random and can be triggered at different times and in a multitude of ways. In JA2 story events have only short term effect (like Kingpin's assassins) or no effects at all (Deidranna's empty treats).

They weren't SUPPOSED to be empty. There was supposed to be that awesome Drassen Counter Attack event...

 

[The_scorpion]

JA1/DG also provide a huge variety of hilarious min-maxed Mercs to chose from. They also have specific issues (i won't spoil too much here) that go in more detail than in Ja2. So while JA1 is never the tactics game Ja2 is, it has attention to detail and production quality that make it an overall outstanding game. As a plus, it provides background lore for Ja2.

 

[m_s0]

That's unfairly reductive.

That's just one point, but in addition some of the feel is off for the second one. The crap with omerta is kind of boring and annoying, and too serious.

You did say 'basically', which (basically) means that's what everything comes down to. The "crap with omerta" grounds the story and creates stakes. JA1 does the exact same thing, incidentally, and due to the nature of the game (less sandboxy than JA2) and the way it handles the story you get far more of those serious story bits in JA1. It is the more serious game by far.

I've heard people complain about how goofy JA2 is, but I've never encountered anyone who thought it was too serious.

Jagged Alliance 1 is a better, tighterr game as a stratgey game. The maps are a lot better and the limited equipment forces you to play in a very "you are there" way. In JA 2 you quickly move to long range weapons and to high power mercs, and instead of a game where you sneak up on bad guys and kill them with a letter opener it turns into something more like rambo.

In JA 1 you slowly work your way up to A-team status at the end. In JA 2 you start off almost at A-Team status and quickly go into Rambo territory and beyond. Especially since you get get lots of night fighting equipment and long range weapons and other things that make it a snap to take down large groups. In JA 1 you have maps that you have to be very careful on, and you will probably have to retreat quite a bit.

I'll repeat myself: nothing wrong with a different focus. And that's clearly what the designers were going for if you look at the setting of both games. The scale of things is just that much larger in JA2 and everything, including the item progression and the maps, reflects that (there's some amount of scarcity at the beginning, but the game isn't about resource scarcity).

There's nothing really wrong with the interface either.

I always thought managing your team was a bit of a pain in the ass in JA1. You get used to it and it's not a dealbreaker by any means, but there's a lot more clicking around and fiddling with separate screens than there really should've been. JA2 does away with that rather elegantly.

They are both great games but JA 1 is a better balanced all around unflawed perfect game. JA 2 is one of the best games ever made but it has some niggles and flaws and some things it did not get right compared to JA 1 in the feel of the game and in the maps and balancing.

Nah, both have flaws. They just have different focuses. And I love the maps in JA2. They're perfectly suited for the kind of gameplay JA2 is going (built around replayability more so than JA1, I feel) for and considering I've been playing the game for 15 years and I'm still not bored with them - that's saying a lot.

Oh, and JA2 music is awesome. I can't get enough of it, even though I've been listening to it for so damn long now. In and outside of the game.

 

[Shaewaroz]

- Story events. JA has story events that have absolutely huge impact into the whole playthrough. Many of these events are semi random and can be triggered at different times and in a multitude of ways. In JA2 story events have only short term effect (like Kingpin's assassins) or no effects at all (Deidranna's empty treats).

They weren't SUPPOSED to be empty. There was supposed to be that awesome Drassen Counter Attack event...

Shoulda, coulda, woulda.

 

[Norfleet]

Modders fixed it.

 

[Shaewaroz]

1.13 fixed a lot of things, but I thought we were talking about the vanilla versions.

 

[Essegi]

I'll repeat myself: nothing wrong with a different focus. And that's clearly what the designers were going for if you look at the setting of both games. The scale of things is just that much larger in JA2 and everything, including the item progression and the maps, reflects that (there's some amount of scarcity at the beginning, but the game isn't about resource scarcity).

That is a good point to play the 1st for me. Also lately i prefer games with smaller focus.
Also i understand that 1 is different enough than 2 still being a good game so i'll definetly play it (and of course the 2nd too but later).

 

[kyrub]

Shaewaroz, everybody can have an opinion, but your claims about JA1 seem totally exagerated to me. I have played JA1 a lot, but when Ja2 came out, I never looked back. Ja2 fixes many flaws of the original.

- First of all, JA 1 is not a tiny, quick game. It has a scary LOT of sectors, and you have to take them all, one by one. And it becomes dull and repetitive (unless you are hardcore boyhood fan of the particular game).
- Second, the game has terrible pacing. I could not believe what you wrote. In about second sector, you get a paper about Day 9 and receiving material in a sector. In fact, on day 9, you are either much further ahead in sectors (and you don't need the material) or you have already lost the game because you won too few sectors.
- Third, you are simply exaggerating strategic events in JA1. Most of the times, there is aboslutely nothing to do, bar winning sectors. Native dislike has never happened to me, and in JA 2 you have far more impact on popularity with key events (like Chalice).
- Last but not least, there inexplicable situations in JA1 with huge impact on the game. It can be really frustrating. The damned power plant - nobody on earth knows why the things gets blasted. Sometimes it does, sometimes it does not. You may try to steal through, but at the end, you just pray. Terrible design. And it can lose you the campaign.

The game has good and strong points, the jungles sectors, the river ones. The interaction between characters is funny, the first time you encounter it. The game is pretty hard, harder than Ja2, which I enjoyed. But at the end, it is really slow and too long for the few feature it offers. A hardcore fan will play it till the last day of his life. Others probably will always turn to the sequel.