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PAX South panel discussion/live chat thread (12:30 CST, 19:30 CET)

Jezal_k23

Guest
I'd say your personal views on feminism are beyond the point. What matters is that she's offended by some of the content in the forums, and she's not forced to see it, so she doesn't. I read her post again and nowhere in it can I see her blaming men for anything. She just explained her reason for not posting, which I think is perfectly reasonable.
 

Sensuki

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2012
Messages
9,799
Location
New North Korea
Codex 2014 Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
I think Bester has a point. I'm sure if she wanted to talk about Pillars of Eternity and the animation / 2d art side of it of which she is involved in, there would be plenty of people willing to discuss it and commend her for her good work (she did a lot of the icons). Fact of the matter is - she never has. The GD section of the forum is mostly a place where the old BIS krew / people who've been on the forums for a long time interact. Most of the people there aren't there for Pillars of Eternity, they've been there because that's their community and that's how it's been allowed to be developed.

What she chose to do instead was use the Pillars of Eternity General Discussion to project some ulterior motives which we didn't really need to know about and have nothing to do with the game - but her comments on dev harrassment were fair enough. Her post would have had merit had she left that shit out.
 

Starwars

Arcane
Joined
Jan 31, 2007
Messages
2,829
Location
Sweden
Yeah, there's *nothing* hostile in her comment whatsoever, and even less so, something *nazi* or what the fuck ever. I don't even agree with her sentiment about the off-topic forum (I do agree that people act like assholes towards the devs at times though) but there's nothing hostile there, just explaining how she feels about it. If I were not a hardened veteran of Internet forums, there'd be a lot of forums (Codex included probably) that I'd want to avoid, even if what I didn't agree with was mainly happening in a specific sub-forum.

Like BAdler says in hist post, whether you have thick skin or not, in the end, why the fuck would you come to a place where you're likely to be met with snark and bullshit? If I were met with that kind of attitude in my daytime job (doubly so if it were a creative endeavour close to my heart) I know I would avoid it at all costs. Otherwise it'd just be a waste of time and energy.
 

dukeofwhales

Cipher
Joined
Nov 13, 2013
Messages
423

I find that gamergaters often seem to have difficulty distinguishing between "I don't like this content so I elect not to [be a part of the community/play this game/have anything to do with it]" against "this content should be banned because I disagree with it". She doesn't call for that content to be banned (even though I'd say it's hardly appropriate for a developer's forum), offer any kind of blackmail ("stop being like this or I won't come back") or even just ask people not to do it. She's just saying that this kind of post makes her uncomfortable and it's part of the reason why she elects not to post there. Somehow you have interpreted that as blaming all men for her not doing what she isn't required to do anyway, hence my comment of a persecution complex.

The use of the word "frightening" was perhaps ill advised, though I assume it refers to how upsetting some anti-feminist comments can be (being referred to as a "walking piece of shit" for her opinions, for instance) rather than actual physical fear.
 

Ellef

Deplorable
Joined
Dec 29, 2014
Messages
3,506
Location
Shitposter's Island
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
She's the one who conflated an off-topic forum thread featuring pictures of women (i didn't see the thread, how does this create a negative atmopshere?) with a toxic atmosphere that prevented her from interacting with fans about games.

Where are all her threads discussing her work, and where she is shot down for being a woman?

I know where the persecution complex is coming from.

edit: I should say, there's no 'feminazi' vibe from her post, and people should in no way direct personal abuse at any developer.
 

hiver

Guest
Bester is actually what he accuses that imaginary girls or woman for. A walking piece of shit. A stupid devolved cretinous subhuman turd that doesnt want to understand anything nor cares for stopping the hatred but dishes out more himself and makes no fucking effort to understand the other gender (or other race as he so aptly put before).

She did not come to interact in the most toxic way possible at all. She tried to communicate about something and what does she get? Devolved simpletons telling her she is a walking shit and that she basically should not talk about that, but instead only post about development?
And you dont think thats a bit strange? That you are telling her what she will or will not post about?

Im sure you are not capable but in order to understand what she said and why - which is really fucking simple - you would need to understand her point of view.
Imagine yourself trying to post on a forum full of women who "cackle and giggle" and talk about "womin stuff" all day long and where the only thread with some pictures is full of pictures of semi - or completely naked men. bIg muscular oily men.
In all kinds of poses you would never be caught dead in.

Would you discuss anything with that "audience"? (presuming you are not gay)
You know that the second or third reply would be calling for you to show a picture of your ass or gtfo.

And if you dared to speak a word you'd get the screaming shits - just like yourself, your mirror reflections, spurting all kinds of garbage at you. Endlessly.

You are exactly the same shits like those you hate so much. Both are actually same kind of extreme cretins. Exactly the same.
And thats why you hate each other so much. BECAUSE YOU ARE FUCKING STUPID.
 

Starwars

Arcane
Joined
Jan 31, 2007
Messages
2,829
Location
Sweden
She came and posted her reasons for not posting regularly *in a thread where a bunch of forumites were crying about why the developers don't come to the forums to discuss things with them*. She answered and gave her own, personal reasons for that. I don't understand what's wrong with that. And why is she a feminazi who blames all men and a walking piece of shit to boot (as per Bester's post) for doing so? It is just reinforcing why the devs would want to stay as far away from the "community" as possible.

EDIT: Also, this thread is now GG vs SJW!
 

ZagorTeNej

Arcane
Joined
Dec 10, 2012
Messages
1,980
I smell a thread separation.

Like BAdler says in hist post, whether you have thick skin or not, in the end, why the fuck would you come to a place where you're likely to be met with snark and bullshit? If I were met with that kind of attitude in my daytime job (doubly so if it were a creative endeavour close to my heart) I know I would avoid it at all costs. Otherwise it'd just be a waste of time and energy.

Because a) snark and bullshit is vastly exagerrated (most of the posters there are either dev ass kissers or present their criticism in a non-confrontational manner, RPG Codex it is not) and b) they are their longtime costumers, many of them gave OE money upfront for a future product they barely knew anything of (IE games, it's gonna be awesome) and some of them are doing QA not just for free but even paid for the privilege. Of course they're under no obligation to do so but some semi-regular appearance/interaction would be a nice gesture.

I also gotta laugh at the notion that devs are thick skinned in general. From what I've seen, they are usually very sensitive to any kind of criticism/dissenting opinion (there are exceptions of course) and often lash out at their consumer base and treat them like garbage (some of their customers are indeed assholes/jerks but that goes for any job/industry).

I find that gamergaters often seem to have difficulty distinguishing between "I don't like this content so I elect not to [be a part of the community/play this game/have anything to do with it]" against "this content should be banned because I disagree with it"

I wish that was the case overall. Unfortunately, it is not.
 

Starwars

Arcane
Joined
Jan 31, 2007
Messages
2,829
Location
Sweden
There is plenty of snark and bullshit, I'm sorry man. It's enough that posters complain about it, devs complain about it (and come here and complain about it as well).Sure, not compared to the Codex but comparing with the Codex is... well, not exactly relevant to compare with a developer forum if you ask me.
I opened a thread at random just now and found a post calling the devs incompetent right away. I mean, that's not a big deal in itself, don't get me wrong. It happens. But if that kind of attitude comes again and again (and it does), of course one wants to avoid it. It's not exactly hard to understand. Even if the forumite, sitting in his trenches and sniping passive-aggressive insults at the devs, feels it's not a big deal, as always, things can look different when viewed from the other side. Again, not hard to understand.

And while I think the backer beta process could've been handled a lot better, OEI is active all over the place. They've posted a *lot* of kickstarter updates for one (more than most), explaining what they're doing the game while they're actually developing it. Josh answers questions on a few different places, Chris is always a public face. BAdler posts on the official forums and have always answered me when I've PMd him. They've changed stuff in the fucking game *based* on backer feedback. I guess I don't really see non-interaction, EXCEPT that they don't come and discuss details on the official forums with forumites. I always viewed the kickstarter as opening up the dev process and inviting fan feedback (and being able to act on that earlier in the process if the feedback is good), NOT spending your workday discussing the finer points of the IE games or whatever in the forums.

You're privileged to what you chose for your reward-tier, nothing else.
 
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hiver

Guest
HIVER WHITE KNIGHT PROTOCOL ACTIVATED

Everybody run!
No dimwit, Hiver anti stupid shits protocol activated and you should run.

Stupidity is gender unbiased.

You, Roquey and bester are great proofs of that.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,236
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
There is plenty of snark and bullshit, I'm sorry man. It's enough that posters complain about it, devs complain about it (and come here and complain about it as well).Sure, not compared to the Codex but comparing with the Codex is... well, not exactly relevant to compare with a developer forum if you ask me.

The Obsidian forums can often be worse than the Codex because of their overly cautious moderation style. On the Codex, the minute that dude posted the Varg Vikernes GIF, Jaesun would have moved the entire derail about the developers' politics straight to Retardo. Instead of doing that, it seems they'd rather wait for threads to go completely out of control and then lock them.

"An armed society is a polite society", or something like that.
 
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hiver

Guest
That stupid shit of locking threads is what devolves every forum out there.

It is done only because it serves as an easy excuse for not doing what moderators should be doing. Removing posts that are stupid and insulting and eventually those that post them.
By locking the whole thread you only punish those who have nothing to do with shitposters. And that only makes the shitposters feel rewarded and influential because they can lock down any thread they dont like. And thats how shits come to rule. Through conformity.

That Lockman is a great example. The guy cannot write a post without some insultingly stupid in it, but because he seemingly "talks nicely" he is allowed to splurge his stupid idiotic brainfarts all over. Whether he believes his own stupidity doesnt change anything there.
Moderators let him post his stupid shit because they want to pretend they are all for "free speech" or some such nonsense. And if you have a few more of that kind - you get forums like Obsidian. And Larian. And inXile. And Iron Towers.

Codex obviously doesnt have that same kind of problem, because here you dont lock whole threads most of the time, except moving special ones to retardo after theyve run their course.
You do have other kinds of problems, but not that one. And just the fact that a forum like codex is actually better for it then those examples, tells how huge impact such a seemingly small thing has.


-
save it infinitron!
Im fed up with your stupid shit and simpleton non logic more then enough.
 
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Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,656
Krystina should have just posted "I don't want to talk to you guys, some of you gross me out and I have too much to do to be bothered to make the effort to figure out which ones to avoid." :cool:
 

Maculo

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jul 30, 2013
Messages
2,533
Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Wrath
That dev's response did seem like a weak excuse. If she was talking about off-topic I would understand, but the beta forums? I do not remember anyone posting such pictures in the beta forums for PoE. Even with Nipsen, I did not view the PoE forum as "toxic."

Edit: Oh look, an apology thread.
 

Duraframe300

Arcane
Joined
Dec 21, 2010
Messages
6,395
The impression I got from Tigrin is very much wanting to talk animation. Having now interacted with her she wasted no time lamenting anything and just got straight to animation.

Y'all are too sensitive regarding the topic / imagining things.
 

badler

Obsidian Entertainment
Developer
Joined
Jun 3, 2014
Messages
127
Even with cheated level-12 characters, Brandon had a character drop against lower-level enemies :lol:

Also pretty fun when Josh told him not to use fire against drakes. This is what they have to work with at Absurdian.

It was pretty great when Sawyer dismissed D:OS to talk about Shadowrun Returns and didn't mention Wasteland 2 once. :cool:

I know everyone likes to crack jokes about presenters not knowing how to play the game, but you guys do realize that:
  1. These are total gimmick parties. We don't build them like you would build a normal character/party. Almost everyone in that party was made to have big boom spells. You'll notice that I mostly used AoEs that had crazier VFX. I would never play like that in a real playthrough. Can't speak for Adam, though.
  2. We can't actually play the game like we normally would. We have to constantly be moving things around on screen. We can't take our time because it would end up being pretty boring to 80% of the people watching. Normally, when I play, I take a long time with each battle because I want to make sure that I get all of my crew into position. I also wouldn't be spamming a bunch of AoEs.
  3. I don't know all of the spells/abilities/talents by icon just yet.
  4. Most of us aren't professional presenters and it is pretty nerve-wracking having a ton of people watch you play the game live.
Anyways, not too butthurt (just a little), but I never get a chance to post a response to this stuff. Time for me to head back to work where I can spend all day casting fireballs on fire elementals.
 

Hormalakh

Magister
Joined
Nov 27, 2012
Messages
1,503
I know everyone likes to crack jokes about presenters not knowing how to play the game, but you guys do realize that:
  1. These are total gimmick parties. We don't build them like you would build a normal character/party. Almost everyone in that party was made to have big boom spells. You'll notice that I mostly used AoEs that had crazier VFX. I would never play like that in a real playthrough. Can't speak for Adam, though.
  2. We can't actually play the game like we normally would. We have to constantly be moving things around on screen. We can't take our time because it would end up being pretty boring to 80% of the people watching. Normally, when I play, I take a long time with each battle because I want to make sure that I get all of my crew into position. I also wouldn't be spamming a bunch of AoEs.
  3. I don't know all of the spells/abilities/talents by icon just yet.
  4. Most of us aren't professional presenters and it is pretty nerve-wracking having a ton of people watch you play the game live.
Anyways, not too butthurt (just a little), but I never get a chance to post a response to this stuff. Time for me to head back to work where I can spend all day casting fireballs on fire elementals.

dude brandon, don't listen to roguey. she got what he/she wanted as soon as you posted. most of us just ignore him/her.

also that's how we say welcome to the codex. just ask Anthony.
 
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Abu Antar

Turn-based Poster
Patron
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
13,514
Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Even with cheated level-12 characters, Brandon had a character drop against lower-level enemies :lol:

Also pretty fun when Josh told him not to use fire against drakes. This is what they have to work with at Absurdian.

It was pretty great when Sawyer dismissed D:OS to talk about Shadowrun Returns and didn't mention Wasteland 2 once. :cool:

I know everyone likes to crack jokes about presenters not knowing how to play the game, but you guys do realize that:
  1. These are total gimmick parties. We don't build them like you would build a normal character/party. Almost everyone in that party was made to have big boom spells. You'll notice that I mostly used AoEs that had crazier VFX. I would never play like that in a real playthrough. Can't speak for Adam, though.
  2. We can't actually play the game like we normally would. We have to constantly be moving things around on screen. We can't take our time because it would end up being pretty boring to 80% of the people watching. Normally, when I play, I take a long time with each battle because I want to make sure that I get all of my crew into position. I also wouldn't be spamming a bunch of AoEs.
  3. I don't know all of the spells/abilities/talents by icon just yet.
  4. Most of us aren't professional presenters and it is pretty nerve-wracking having a ton of people watch you play the game live.
Anyways, not too butthurt (just a little), but I never get a chance to post a response to this stuff. Time for me to head back to work where I can spend all day casting fireballs on fire elementals.
Like Hormalakh said, the poster you're responding to... it is special.
 

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