Which Codex classics are you unable to enjoy? - Codex topic of shame

[Athelas]

Replayability/C&C. A lot of the goodness of the non-combat content is derived from the fact that it's a single-character game, which forces you to make choices.

Sure...in theory. Fallout's character system isn't really well-developed enough to allow this though, and there are obvious must-have and trash attributes and skills. I'd say a game like Deus Ex handles this a lot better.

AoD is pretty explicitly designed around that. Underrail, while much more combat-focused in general (the Fallout comparison only goes so far), offers a legit sleath playstyle as an alternative to just going in and shooting things. In a party-based game, you can cover all the bases, so the replayability revolves around different ways of resolving combat. It's not like there's a party-based game where you can go full stealth and have your all-thief party run past the final boss. And a party-based game where you could go for a more diplomatic playthrough would feel pointless: I have all these cool characters in my party, and now I'm just picking "persuasion" options? I think the single-character RPG is the exemplar of the C&C-prioritizing RPG. (While real-time single-character is Diablo, I guess.)

There's no reason why a game can't have party-based combat while letting the main character be the one that does all the skill-related things - Torment does this (although it has worse combat than Fallout, but it's not because it's party-based). It does mean making the protagonist a special snowflake, but that's what pretty much all RPG protagonists are, and in this case it would actually mean something significant for gameplay.

 

[Trash]

This thread is another prime example of just how much this place has gone down the drain. Fucking millenials need to get off my lawn. If you can't enjoy classics like BaK, Planescape or Fallout then you might just want to piss off to IGN. Not because you're not entitled to having your own taste in gaming but simply because you're a bloody embodiment of the decline. And all the 'reasoning' in this thread is simply bringing that point home. Fuck off and go play something streamlined.

 

[NotAGolfer]

This thread is another prime example of just how much this place has gone down the drain. Fucking millenials need to get off my lawn.

So this is where the term Trash talk comes from.

Replayability/C&C. A lot of the goodness of the non-combat content is derived from the fact that it's a single-character game, which forces you to make choices.

Sure...in theory. Fallout's character system isn't really well-developed enough to allow this though, and there are obvious must-have and trash attributes and skills. I'd say a game like Deus Ex handles this a lot better.

Agreed. Fallout isn't fun because of char building C&C but because of the setting, writing, awesome stuff like gatling guns and power armor and story C&C. And the sillyness. This is Mad Max the game (and FO2 is Mad Max 2 the game, with it being even sillier).

 

[Untermensch]

Threads like these(Fallout is overrated, which classic you don't like, ...) are where the fun's at. Creating yet another thread detailing why Dragon Age and Skyrim are awful has become boring.

 

[naossano]

Why bother fighting then ?
Let's your buddies do the job or avoid combat situations.
You can get through most of those games without firing a single shot.

It is impossible to totally avoid combat in Fallout 1 & 2.

You can totally avoid combat in the main quest (except Horrigan) and many sides quest of both games.
And if you still want to do a "complete" playthrough (all side quests done, all npc interacted with, all locations explored), you can still do most of it in a rather pacific way.
As i see it, those games aren't dungeon-fest, but living world to interact with, people to talk to, societies to understand and dwelve into.
The combat is one of the many ways to interact with that world and is, by a large margin, the most generic one. (doesn't mean it is 100% boring, but while bother doing it if you can avoid it ?)

 

[jcd]

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[Untermensch]

Why bother fighting then ?
Let's your buddies do the job or avoid combat situations.
You can get through most of those games without firing a single shot.

It is impossible to totally avoid combat in Fallout 1 & 2.

You can totally avoid combat in the main quest (except Horrigan) and many sides quest of both games.

No, no. You got that all wrong.

IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO TOTALLY AVOID COMBAT IN FALLOUT 1 AND 2.

 

[Daedalos]

Don't people play games for FUN anymore?

It's always something like, OMG.. dis game had the worst mechanics, or dis game was SOOO EZI... LEL.. or dis game

Don't you guys play games for their setting? Story? Universe? And simply because they are fun? They might be more "simple" or "easier" than other games, but they give you an interesting game based on other things.

The game might have "broken" combat, or other parts of the mechanics of the game broken, but deep down, the gameplay is still fun, and holds up.

It's like.. a bad star wars movie, is STILL a star wars movie, so not too bad.. if you're a star wars fan. right?

 

[Athelas]

You can outrun the rats without being hit.

 

[jcd]

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[Black_Willow]

You can outrun the rats without being hit.

No you stupi, stupid shitlicking cocksucker, you don't get the point. A diplomatic character who talks his way out of combat, not an olympic marathon runner or a fucking ninja.

Running away from combat means you are already in combat, you are just running away hoping the critter doesn't catch you.

You cannot talk the rat into not attacking you, so a diplomatic only chacrter cannot play the game without combat encounters!

 

[torpid]

There's no reason why a game can't have party-based combat while letting the main character be the one that does all the skill-related things - Torment does this (although it has worse combat than Fallout, but it's not because it's party-based). It does mean making the protagonist a special snowflake, but that's what pretty much all RPG protagonists are, and in this case it would actually mean something significant for gameplay.

True; though Torment is a weird case--I feel it would've worked better as a single-character game, but the story is heavily driven by the party interactions, so you need the party for that.

I don't really remember Torment very well: I recall you'd go high INT & WIS to unlock all the dialogue options, but did you skip combat with some of those dialogues? That goes back to my point about having a party, and then going full diplomacy--what's the point of the party, then? In Torment, it's for the wangst story, but otherwise, in a non-storyfag game? Say your main character specializes in lockpicking and social skills and you're bypassing combat via unlocking trapdoors and passing persuasion skill checks. Then what's your party doing? Hauling the lockpicks? That kind of thing just works better in a single-character game.

 

[Crooked Bee]

I enjoy all RPGs.

 

[jcd]

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[naossano]

Why bother fighting then ?
Let's your buddies do the job or avoid combat situations.
You can get through most of those games without firing a single shot.

It is impossible to totally avoid combat in Fallout 1 & 2.

You can totally avoid combat in the main quest (except Horrigan) and many sides quest of both games.

No, no. You got that all wrong.

IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO TOTALLY AVOID COMBAT IN FALLOUT 1 AND 2.

Do i have to explain you the difference between entering in turn-based mode (if you aren't sneaker) and actually fighting ?
Are you needed to kill those rats to move through the game ? Not at all. There is no forced quest that force you to kill one of them for daddy with a BB gun in order to move forward in the next step of the game.

 

[NotAGolfer]

Why bother fighting then ?
Let's your buddies do the job or avoid combat situations.
You can get through most of those games without firing a single shot.

It is impossible to totally avoid combat in Fallout 1 & 2.

You can totally avoid combat in the main quest (except Horrigan) and many sides quest of both games.

No, no. You got that all wrong.

IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO TOTALLY AVOID COMBAT IN FALLOUT 1 AND 2.

Do i have to explain you the difference between entering in turn-based mode (if you aren't sneaker) and actually fighting ?
Are you needed to kill those rats to move through the game ? Not at all. There is no forced quest that force you to kill one of them for daddy with a BB gun in order to move forward in the next step of the game.

So you tell me you run away from rats?
Faggit.

 

[Athelas]

True; though Torment is a weird case--I feel it would've worked better as a single-character game, but the story is heavily driven by the party interactions, so you need the party for that.

I don't really remember Torment very well: I recall you'd go high INT & WIS to unlock all the dialogue options, but did you skip combat with some of those dialogues? That goes back to my point about having a party, and then going full diplomacy--what's the point of the party, then? In Torment, it's for the wangst story, but otherwise, in a non-storyfag game? Say your main character specializes in lockpicking and social skills and you're bypassing combat via unlocking trapdoors and passing persuasion skill checks. Then what's your party doing? Hauling the lockpicks? That kind of thing just works better in a single-character game.

You can give the party members skills that don't overlap with the main character skills, or make skills have a cumulative effect when multiple party members have that skill. In Torment, some of the companions could translate dabus speech if your own WIS/INT was too low to do it.

I recall you'd go high INT & WIS to unlock all the dialogue options, but did you skip combat with some of those dialogues?

Sometimes, although they mostly gave access to more dialogue/experience. WIS/INT/CHA had by far the most use, but in some instances high DEX let you snap people's necks, high STR made you successful at threatening people.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Also, to actually say something on topic, but avoiding the generic 'yeah i dun liek arcanum' which has (fortunately) started becoming more prevalent recently, there is one game that I really didn't like, and I am probably the only such person on the planet.

Deus Ex.

I tried playing it three times - at release, a few years after that, and some 3 years ago. Nope. It just doesn't do it for me. I always get extra bored after a few levels and never return to it. At first it looked like something that I should love - System Shock 2 meets Thief - but, in practice, I found that it tries to be both of these games and fails to be good at being either. The stealth is shit, the gunplay is shit, the tranq darts are so terrible they make me cry, the level design is 'sort of there' but eh it's much worse than Thief, the character development is bleh. Even the setting/story/whatever are uninteresting as hell to me.

Literally the only thing I remember liking about Desu Ex was that you could have your legs blown off.

 

[TripJack]

your taste is clearly not augmented

 

[bloodlover]

It's like.. a bad star wars movie, is STILL a star wars movie, so not too bad.. if you're a star wars fan. right?

I asume you haven't seen Episode 1.

I understand your points but I think that most people today just powergame, not having the time or patience to invest in a game. This genre demands A LOT of time (and passion I'd say) and most people maybe just don't have them anymore. And maybe it was fun rerolling a char 20 hours into the game back in the day but now not so much.

 

[throwaway]

Any game with combat making up more than 95% of the gameplay time content. I like my walkie talkies.

 

[Orma]

Morrowind, its shit

 

[naossano]

So you tell me you run away from rats?
Faggit.

I actually did that for the lieutenant on first playthrough.
I un-purposly won the game at midlevel by running away like a coward, missing a good part of worthy content.

 

[tuluse]

I have never enjoyed a Bethesda game.

 

[muds_animal_friend]

Repent while you can sinners. The Second Coming is almost here:

The Holy Ones will drive the wicked Storyfags, and their false idol Obsidian Entertainment, into the wastelands of RPG Watch. The Promised Land of the Codex will finally belong to the Grognards, and to the Grognards alone. It is written.