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Prediction: the next release Dwarf Fortress will be INSANE!

MisterStone

Arcane
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Messages
9,422
Has anyone been following Dwarf Fortress development lately?

Here's what the developer (Tarn Adams = Toady One) has been working on:

  • Temperatures

    Fire/freezing (actually mostly done in the latest release)

    Z levels (up and down)

    Water that obeys laws of fluid dynamics. It falls, flows downhill, etc. For instance, if you were to order a dwarf to dig a tunnel into a body of water, the water would flood through the opening until pressure equilibrium is reached.

    Randomly generated terrain that models real life geology, etc.

    The "world map" will consist of a seamless quilt of smaller wilderness/town maps, so in effect there is merely a single huge-ass map. Even mountains will be modeled in Z levels with ramps, impassable areas, mountain tops, etc.

    Groups of people (caravans, armies, etc.) will move around on the main map.

    Fortress maps are no longer the same left-to-right "cliff face, river, chasm, magma, demon pits layout". Fortresses can be built in any area in the world map. Since mountains might have any variety of shapes or sizes, the orientation/shape of fortress maps is extremely varied.

In short, this game will be in-fucking-sane once the next release is out. A lot of these features probably seem pointlessly ornate or complicated, but as the developer has noted, a robust working model of these things makes it easier to add cool stuff later on in development. No doubt a lot of people are skeptical of all these features, but he's shown the videos, and I believe that they have mostly been implemented. I believe that he's moving right along towards a huge f'ing release. Pretty f'ing amazing, this game.

The only big worry I have right now is that the game will be a huge processor hog. Sooner or later he's going to hit a serious wall in this regard. Luckily, he is planning on some options that should allow you to cut down on processor demands (like limiting Z levels, simplifying temperature, etc. etc.).

Seriously, this game is starting to sound like the kind of thing people have been dreaming about for decades, since computers grew huge hairy-processor balls. Instead of using all that processing power on 3-dee, he's using it to model other things in a tile-based game world. Here's hoping he succeeds.
 

Helton

Arcane
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
Messages
6,789
Location
Starbase Delta
Shouldn't he be working for NASA or The Illuminati or something?

It does sound pretty awesome. Shame I'm such a simpleton with these kinds of games. Just build a little eight-dwarf farming commune, build a moat, and craft stone furniture.

That's life in Mt. Heltonia. Kind of a waste of so many outrageously awesome features. :(

Should load it up again after this release, I suppose.
 

MisterStone

Arcane
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Messages
9,422
OccupatedVoid said:
I wish it was open source. :(

It doesn't look like it will be open source any time soon. The Dev just finished up a stint as a post-doc (he has a Ph.D. in mathematics, I think), and he says that he wants to try and survive solely on coding the game and asking for donations. While I seriously doubt that he will be able to support himself indefinitely like that, at the very least we can expect several months of serious, dedicated coding before he comes to his senses and gets a real job. The other possibility is that he moves to a commercial model, or that he manages to make a go from donations and selling stuff from his site... who knows how it will turn out?
 

Prunesquallor

Novice
Joined
Jan 8, 2007
Messages
24
Yeah. Dwarf Fortress rocks. We now have the soil erosion. I bet Patrick Stewart is soon to follow.
 

MisterStone

Arcane
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Messages
9,422
Prunesquallor said:
Yeah. Dwarf Fortress rocks. We now have the soil erosion. I bet Patrick Stewart is soon to follow.
What an inventive sense of humor you have!
 

Higher Game

Arcane
Joined
Apr 14, 2005
Messages
13,664
Location
Female Vagina
MisterStone said:
It doesn't look like it will be open source any time soon. The Dev just finished up a stint as a post-doc (he has a Ph.D. in mathematics, I think)

That makes sense. It takes someone really bright to make a game like Dwarf Fortress. It's something a commercial, mainstream game company simply couldn't do, even if they really tried. Dwarf Fortress is everything Jade was going to be, apparently. It's too bad Thomas Biskup has apparently abandoned it, as well as ADOM. :(
 

MisterStone

Arcane
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Messages
9,422
Higher Game said:
MisterStone said:
It doesn't look like it will be open source any time soon. The Dev just finished up a stint as a post-doc (he has a Ph.D. in mathematics, I think)

That makes sense. It takes someone really bright to make a game like Dwarf Fortress. It's something a commercial, mainstream game company simply couldn't do, even if they really tried. Dwarf Fortress is everything Jade was going to be, apparently. It's too bad Thomas Biskup has apparently abandoned it, as well as ADOM. :(

I dunno... Biskup still sends out holiday greetings every year! :)

Seriously though, last December or so Biskup posted to a Usenet thread asking for advice on how to do an early release. So maybe it isn't totally dead. Still, the slow progress and lack of progress reports is not very encouraging. However, I imagine that Tarn Adams will probably eventually be forced to get a real job of sorts and the development on DF will likely slow down some day as well. For the time being though, things are whizzing along there.
 

Ladonna

Arcane
Joined
Aug 27, 2006
Messages
10,792
Perhaps he will be able to eventually license his engine out to bigger devs. They could work on eye candy and interface and use his engines AI routines, features, etc.

It would make him more money than donations.
 

Nedrah

Erudite
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
1,693
Location
Germany
And it would make for the best game ever, I think. Dwarf fortress with a non-vodoo UI and some shineys? Holy shit.
 

Oarfish

Prophet
Joined
Sep 3, 2005
Messages
2,511
Nedrah said:
And it would make for the best game ever, I think. Dwarf fortress with a non-vodoo UI and some shineys? Holy shit.

It's a ruthlessly non commercial game though, but I guess so is Space Empires and various other hardcore strategy titles. Quite a bit of the fun with DF is the community involvement in the development process, it's quite possible to influence the direction of the game as well as see it grow from day to day. You would have to be very careful not to loose that with a commercial release.

What would be good is some decent binary interfaces to program against, so UI and shiny could be worked on separately without affecting Toadies core game play. Even that might probably limit the vision that makes DF so unique though.
 

Fez

Erudite
Joined
May 18, 2004
Messages
7,954
There's a chance that the community contributors might be able to pretty it up with time. The tile sets seemed to be popular for previous versions, so it'll probably continue with this.
 

Nedrah

Erudite
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
1,693
Location
Germany
Oarfish said:
Nedrah said:
And it would make for the best game ever, I think. Dwarf fortress with a non-vodoo UI and some shineys? Holy shit.

It's a ruthlessly non commercial game though, but I guess so is Space Empires and various other hardcore strategy titles. Quite a bit of the fun with DF is the community involvement in the development process, it's quite possible to influence the direction of the game as well as see it grow from day to day. You would have to be very careful not to loose that with a commercial release.

What would be good is some decent binary interfaces to program against, so UI and shiny could be worked on separately without affecting Toadies core game play. Even that might probably limit the vision that makes DF so unique though.

I'd settle for the "non-vodoo ui" part along with some real graphics, too. I firmly believe that could be done without limiting the whole experience all that much - not now, but once the game has matured a bit more.
 

Zomg

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
6,984
I have become attuned to a hateful vi interface and I hope it never improves.
 

MisterStone

Arcane
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Messages
9,422
Oarfish said:
It's a ruthlessly non commercial game though, but I guess so is Space Empires and various other hardcore strategy titles. Quite a bit of the fun with DF is the community involvement in the development process, it's quite possible to influence the direction of the game as well as see it grow from day to day. You would have to be very careful not to loose that with a commercial release.

What would be good is some decent binary interfaces to program against, so UI and shiny could be worked on separately without affecting Toadies core game play. Even that might probably limit the vision that makes DF so unique though.

I think that we'll probably have to wait for the game to reach a certain point of development, then hopefully Toady will let something like this happen. I must say though, using the simple tiles/interface really does seem to have helped him focus on other aspects of the game. This is what really pisses me off abut mod. day games... it seems like most of the development resources and effort go into drawing tiny little animations for every single item/creature/action in the game. Just imagine if someone developed Diablo or something with ugly inanimate tile-based graphics. It would probably take 1/50th of the time and resources to develop. And everyone would realize how shallow and boring the gameplay is much faster.

JoeDirt said:
LINK TO GAEM PLS

On the off chance that you are not joking:

http://bay12games.com/dwarves/

If you have never played this game before, there is a good chance that the screwy UI and display will cause nose bleeds and severe headache. It really is a pain, although as Zomg has noted, if you stick with it you will become "attuned" and learn to use it without thinking.

The whole game is going to change in a major way soon, so don't get too used to that version...
 

Greenskin13

Erudite
Joined
Dec 5, 2002
Messages
1,109
Location
Chicago
Yeah, developing DwarfFortress Adaptation is one of the most surreal experiences ever. I can't even use the graphical tile sets people made because I'm so used to the ASCII art.
 

Redeye

Arcane
Joined
Jun 27, 2006
Messages
8,247
Location
filth
How many people overall like DF enough to mail Tarn Adams a buck a month?

It could work.

We'll see.
 

Ladonna

Arcane
Joined
Aug 27, 2006
Messages
10,792
It's a ruthlessly non commercial game though, but I guess so is Space Empires and various other hardcore strategy titles. Quite a bit of the fun with DF is the community involvement in the development process, it's quite possible to influence the direction of the game as well as see it grow from day to day. You would have to be very careful not to loose that with a commercial release.

No, that would be a massive waste. I don't advocate turning DF commercial. Instead he could license his engine out, to various devs if he wished, and they could make their own game on top of it using shiney crap, bells and whistles, etc. Remember, he has the adventuring part coming along as well, so there is effectively two engines in one.

That way he could make money while still updating his baby however he liked.
 

The_Pope

Scholar
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
844
I couldn't play this game because I'm too much of a graphics whore :cry:
 

Nedrah

Erudite
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
1,693
Location
Germany
Well, when I first started playing games on the C64 and the NES, ASCII "graphics" were already pretty much a thing of the past. Sure, the graphics were extremely simple and abstract by today's standards sometimes, (talking about the c64 here), but I just never got the chance to grow into the whole "WHOA SHIT IT'S A GREEN "d" - we're all going to die!!!" mindset.

I guess I might be just too much of a graphics whore, too.

But the arcane UI way of telling the game what exactly you want your dwarfes to do is even worse for me :(
 

psycojester

Arbiter
Joined
Jun 23, 2006
Messages
2,526
I couldn't play this game because I'm too much of a graphics whore Crying or Very sad

You've gotta slide into it gradually, go play ADOM for a couple of months and then play Dwarf Fortress, it'll still be bewildering at first but it won't be live-fish-in-a-blender shock.

BTW anybody here good at the game and willing to help me with getting my food supply stable if i posted my current save-game?

Just had the Mayor and the Representative of Clan Ber arrive and currently running on the breadline and desperately trying to catch up to my housing situation.
 

Fez

Erudite
Joined
May 18, 2004
Messages
7,954
Give up your sluggish central planning, psycojester. You should let the free market decide what to build and where.
 

psycojester

Arbiter
Joined
Jun 23, 2006
Messages
2,526
I haven't started minting coins yet, so my dwarfs are still a communist commune.
 

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