Roguey vs the Grognards Thread

[SausageInYourFace]

Man, that post sure gave me a flashback. The last time I played through BG1 - and the first time I actually finished it - was about a year ago. Currently trying my hands at IWD1 for the first time and either I got much worse at these kind of games or IWD is significantly harder. Sure, there were a few challenging fights in BG1 but IWD just constantly kicks my ass and I am still pretty much in early game. Dragon's Eye made me rage quit twice already, I don't remember any fights in BG giving me such a hard time.

I was never really bothered by RTWP (nor did I follow all those in depth discussions about RTWP vs. Turn Based) but IWD really made me think for the first time that maybe TB is in fact better. I guess because IWD fights are harder and require a larger amount of micromanagement which results in me constantly hitting pause, which can get really annoying, particularly if the unpausing is followed immediately by an auto-pause due to whatever trigger I set.

 

[Immortal]

That was a pretty enjoyable read. I do think you got a little lucky on your Tarnesh fight, If Friendly Arm Inn is your first stop and you didn't cheese anything he can be a real cock in the ass. (Mostly because his magic missiles can kill a low con charname)

I agree mostly with your recount of the game and share a lot of similar sentiments. However ~~

Gay Feely Stuff Below
BG1 Remains one of those games that I always pick up, play until I reach Baldurs Gate, I do a few quests then usually stop playing. I love Baldurs Gate because of the *~*~Feels~*~* - Just exploring these different areas that radiate that strong Faerun vibe it reminds me of a time way back when, before everything became some powerful blue alien ghost ninja that you see in high level settings / 4E. It was a time when most things were pretty mundane, dwarves in plate armor, bandits ambushing you, gnomes being playable as a race and when seeing mages (especially robed ones) you knew you should be worried about pissing them off.

Was it balanced? Nah.. It was awesome though. I am glad PoE will be a more rounded out game but it does lose some of those ~Feels~ along the way. I think that's the biggest reason people get butt hurt about 'balance'. In the real world things usually aren't realistically balanced and I think some people enjoy that things vary in power to create that illusion of a real world.. even if it makes certain combinations stupid.

For me - Muscle wizards and Charismatic Fighters rank pretty low on what I want out of PoE.

 

[Roguey]

either I got much worse at these kind of games or IWD is significantly harder. Sure, there were a few challenging fights in BG1 but IWD just constantly kicks my ass and I am still pretty much in early game. Dragon's Eye made me rage quit twice already, I don't remember any fights in BG giving me such a hard time.

Kresselack's Tomb and Dragon's Eye are a Josh Sawyer-experience. Not counting the expansion, there's a huge lull in-between those and the other JES area, the last one.

I was never really bothered by RTWP (nor did I follow all those in depth discussions about RTWP vs. Turn Based) but IWD really made me think for the first time that maybe TB is in fact better. I guess because IWD fights are harder and require a larger amount of micromanagement which results in me constantly hitting pause, which can get really annoying, particularly if the unpausing is followed immediately by an auto-pause due to whatever trigger I set.

I recommend checking more autopause options.

I do think you got a little lucky on your Tarnesh fight, If Friendly Arm Inn is your first stop and you didn't cheese anything he can be a real cock in the ass. (Mostly because his magic missiles can kill a low con charname)

I always use autopause on enemy sighted; he never got a chance to fire a missile.

 

[Hobo Elf]

Ring of Wizardry. Doubles your level 1 slots. Completely breaks the first half of the game if you have a good mage. I don't think there's any in-game hint that it even exists, and since BG1 didn't have the Tab-highlight, the only ways to find it were to either pixel hunt everywhere, or to read the game files.

The flavor text in the Ring of Wizardry is probably one of the funniest flavor texts I've ever read in an item.

 

[imweasel]

Pillars is going to top it no problem

Better than Baldur's Gate? Doh ho ho. It probably won't even be as good as IWD2.

and good riddance to hard counters.

You apparently forgot to buy Protection from Petrification and Stone to Flesh scrolls etc. which is a typical noob mistake. "Good riddance to hard counters forcing me to prepare my party for anything. Hello dumbed down gameplay ala Sawyer."

Anyway, if you really want to see hard counters, then play Baldur's Gate 2. You won't get far without Dispel Magic etc. Best fucking mage battles ever.

 

[Rake]

Better than Baldur's Gate? Doh ho ho. It probably won't even be as good as IWD2.

It will have better story/writing than both games, so it will be better. Agree with the thing about hard counters though.

 

[mute]

Roguey

Please describe Josh Sawyers design philosophy in a single word.

Where do you see Josh in 10 years?

 

[Dreaad]

Better than Baldur's Gate? Doh ho ho. It probably won't even be as good as IWD2.

It will have better story/writing than both games, so it will be better. Agree with the thing about hard counters though.

I'm not really sure. More of something does not make it automatically better. Sawyer has never produced a game in which the story was bad or boring... but in so far as I know, he has never had to construct something from the ground up. Point is, it's a bit early to be making wide assumptions about the story. Gameplay I can understand, it's all right there. Story, not so much.

 

[Rake]

Better than Baldur's Gate? Doh ho ho. It probably won't even be as good as IWD2.

It will have better story/writing than both games, so it will be better. Agree with the thing about hard counters though.

I'm not really sure. More of something does not make it automatically better. Sawyer has never produced a game in which the story was bad or boring... but in so far as I know, he has never had to construct something from the ground up. Point is, it's a bit early to be making wide assumptions about the story. Gameplay I can understand, it's all right there. Story, not so much.

My trust is in the rest of Obsidian. Who gives a fuck about Sawyer? Ziets,Avellone and Festenmaker were involved in PoE setting along Sawyer, and the game's story and content will have more to do with Eric than Sawyer.

 

[Gragt]

Ring of Wizardry. Doubles your level 1 slots. Completely breaks the first half of the game if you have a good mage. I don't think there's any in-game hint that it even exists, and since BG1 didn't have the Tab-highlight, the only ways to find it were to either pixel hunt everywhere, or to read the game files.

One of the nobles in the Friendly Arm Inn will mention a crazy spellcaster who got thrown out for digging all over the place in search of a magical treasure. I can’t remember if it’s in the original game or added as part of a text correction update though.

 

[tuluse]

I'm not really sure. More of something does not make it automatically better. Sawyer has never produced a game in which the story was bad or boring... but in so far as I know, he has never had to construct something from the ground up. Point is, it's a bit early to be making wide assumptions about the story. Gameplay I can understand, it's all right there. Story, not so much.

NWN2. Also, I hear IWD2 is that exciting either.

Of course he wasn't fully responsible for NWN2, but he could have potentially done more to save it.

 

[meanwhileInPoland]

Pillars is going to top it no problem

Better than Baldur's Gate? Doh ho ho. It probably won't even be as good as IWD2.

and good riddance to hard counters.

You apparently forgot to buy Protection from Petrification and Stone to Flesh scrolls etc. which is a typical noob mistake. "Good riddance to hard counters forcing me to prepare my party for anything. Hello dumbed down gameplay ala Sawyer."

Anyway, if you really want to see hard counters, then play Baldur's Gate 2. You won't get far without Dispel Magic etc. Best fucking mage battles ever.

Are you telling me that she did not even play bg2?

 

[Roguey]

Of course I've completed BG2. I never bothered with BG until now because it didn't seem like I'd enjoy it (which is true for the first couple of chapters; pretty good turnaround, like Skyrim, but better).

You apparently forgot to buy Protection from Petrification and Stone to Flesh scrolls etc. which is a typical noob mistake.

I never bothered to buy them because I never needed to. I got those things for free from looting and only had to deal with basilisks twice. Pointless busywork, not unlike Witcher's pre-battle potions and oils.

Please describe Josh Sawyers design philosophy in a single word.

Fun.

Where do you see Josh in 10 years?

If Obsidian's still around, probably still there.

 

[tuluse]

Please describe Josh Sawyers design philosophy in a single word.

Fun.

I was expecting elegance but this works too

 

[mute]

Roguey said: ↑

mute said: ↑
Please describe Josh Sawyers design philosophy in a single word.

Fun.

Naturally. But as the one person who may know Sawyer better than Sawyer knows himself, I was hoping for a bit more.

 

[Roguey]

While waiting for Eternity, I set aside my distaste for space opera and completed Mass Effect 2 to see Sawyerism applied to a third person role playing cover shooter. It started out meh (like many other RPGs), and wasn't ~perfectly balanced~. but overall it met my expectations. My favorite levels were the Garrus, Samara, and Thane recruitment missions and the Collector Ship. The levels I hated the most were the parts where they throw wave after wave of husks after you, because they all play out the same way and go on for way too long.

It had more narrative/cosmetic C&C than I expected, though not nearly as much as Alpha Protocol (which looks and plays like a low-budget clown show by comparison). Weekes did a an entertaining enough job with Mordin, but I didn't care for Jack or Tali and especially the hamminess of Tali's court-martial. Successfully avoided ninjamancing Jacob, and only came close when the "Do you have a family?' paraphrase came out like So do you have a wife (or are you available)? And on that note, I don't consider his raging rapist father ~problematic~ considering how they tried their hardest to make Jacob likeable and also have Keith David. It's okay to have a black villain when there are two black guys who aren't villains.

I liked how the Samara romance ends unconsummated, though how they justified it was confusing ("Does your code prevent you from having relationships?" "No." "So you want to get together?" "I can't, my duties prevent it.")

In a swerve from Sawyerism, I enjoyed Dragon Age: Origins more. ME2 is definitely better at being a cover shooter than DA:O is at being a rtwp party-based RPG, but it turns out that I'd rather play a mediocre real-time-tacticool game than a good cover shooter. It's a damn shame Norman didn't turn ME2 into a competent tps without the cover or that Laidlaw and Thomas didn't really comprehend the lessons of why ME2 succeeded.

Of course I have no intention of playing 1 or 3. I'm not interested in playing a bad tps, I have no interest in the reaper plot, and none of the companions look entertaining. Hopefully 4 will solidify ME into the Star Trek movie pattern where the first one's boring, the second's good, the third's a disappointment, and the fourth feels like a hilarious self-insert fan-fic written by a middle-aged woman that somehow wasn't.

 

[tuluse]

I enjoyed Dragon Age: Origins more. ME2 is definitely better at being a cover shooter than DA:O is at being a rtwp party-based RPG, but it turns out that I'd rather play a mediocre real-time-tacticool game than a good cover shooter.

One of us. One of us.

 

[Roguey]

Final Skyrim journal entry: Ugh, that final dungeon was a time-padding waste no different from any other undead dungeon. Though I liked how it started off with a couple of easy-to-kill dragons to show off how far you've come, in addition to the mobs of deathlords who were more level-appropriate. It was worth it to see all the work the art department put into not-Valhalla.

I ended up spending 94 hours with it, same as Josh, though that wasn't intentional. At least it wasn't 178 like some Tim Cain. I'll likely get TESVI, after all the DLC and fan fix patches are out, though I doubt I'll be touching this again. 94 hours is more than enough.

 

[Sensuki]

I enjoyed Mass Effect 2, thought it was pretty good for what it is. Dragon Age Origins was a stinking horrible let down in comparison.

I think it's probably a good idea to not play 1 and 3. 2 is the best one of the lot.

 

[Roguey]

If I ever get over my dislike of ugly-3D and panzerkleins I guess I might give Silent Storm a try eventually.

Who wears an open coat with nothing underneath? Fucking Russians.

The graphics turned out better than expected. Like ToEE and others, jpeg compression makes Silent Storm look worse than it is. Of course I hated the hard counter nature of the panzerkleins, and used metaknowledge to get the alien rifle to make fighting them less bothersome.

While playing, I thought the character dialogue was very Jagged Alliance-y and hey what do you know, Shaun Lyng wrote it.

The lack of a JA2-style loot screen was disappointing, but not too big of a deal since you don't really need to collect much of anything. And of course the perk system is full of junk and trap choices. The incompetence of their engineering skill scaling was a surprise; fortunately the quasi-sim gameplay meant I didn't need to bother using a mod to fix it since I could just use bullets to open every locked door and container. And much like Fallout and JA2, heads are pretty much the thing to target over all other body parts.

Levels are pretty small due to the memory constraints of the early 00s. Unfortunately, a lot of them are jam-packed with enemies, which makes them feel like a meat grinding slog. It gets pretty ridiculous in a couple of levels where enemies can get funneled through a chokepoint where the bodies pile up and eventually have to start disappearing. That still didn't stop one level from eventually crashing if I lingered there too long, assumingly because there were too many objects in it.

I ultimately liked playing Wasteland 2: Original Cut more than this even though S2's combat system is better on paper (targeted and snap/aimed/careful/snipe shots, a stealth system with crouch- and prone-movement, destructible environments). In addition to the aforementioned meat grinder and endgame hard counter enemy aspects, ally/neutral and enemy turns often go on for much longer than they should. I did like it more than Dead State though. Low bar, I know.

I'm not going to bother with Sentinels since I'm certain I'll hate it based on what I've read. Unsurprisingly, Nival went full-shovelware after that. Fucking Russians.

 

[abnaxus]

I ended up spending 94 hours with it, same as Josh, though that wasn't intentional. At least it wasn't 178 like some Tim Cain.

Is this a joke? I knew they were playing it, but for so many hours?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Unsurprisingly, Nival went full-shovelware after that. Fucking Russians.

Not quite, there's Hammer and Sickle, no Panzerkleins in there either.

 

[Roguey]

I ended up spending 94 hours with it, same as Josh, though that wasn't intentional. At least it wasn't 178 like some Tim Cain.

Is this a joke? I knew they were playing it, but for so many hours?

Josh http://steamcommunity.com/id/baby_goat/games/?tab=all
Tim http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197979050578/games/?tab=all and check out all his 'chieves http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197979050578/stats/TheElderScrollsVSkyrim/?tab=achievements

Not quite, there's Hammer and Sickle, no Panzerkleins in there either.

Read that it was a shovelware mod, exacerbating issues from S2 (mob-heavy levels, enemy turns).

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Read that it was a shovelware mod, exacerbating issues from S2 (mob-heavy levels, enemy turns).

Dunno about mob heavy, they die damn quick and so do you, never had much issues with enemy turns either.

 

[abnaxus]

Josh http://steamcommunity.com/id/baby_goat/games/?tab=all
Tim http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197979050578/games/?tab=all and check out all his 'chieves http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197979050578/stats/TheElderScrollsVSkyrim/?tab=achievements

Neither of them likes Twitcher?