Interview Josh Sawyer Pillars of Eternity Post-Release Interview at Gamasutra

[Ninjerk]

its not shit b/c obsidian, its shit because its bsb

Still less bsb then Wasteland 2 though

Prettier for sure

 

[Volrath]

its not shit b/c obsidian, its shit because its bsb

Still less bsb then Wasteland 2 though

Prettier for sure

I had more FUN with it

 

[VladimirK]

it achieved what it was intended to: To create a game that tapped into the nostalgia and yearning for a game in the same vein of those great CRPGs of the late '90s and early 2000s, while still offering something new and unique.

Such as?

MMO mechanics designed to give every member of the party a button to push every 10 seconds every encounter.

 

[Ninjerk]

its not shit b/c obsidian, its shit because its bsb

Still less bsb then Wasteland 2 though

Prettier for sure

I had more FUN with it

fun > less fun

 

[Hormalakh]

That weight of expectation wasn’t as straight forward as it might seem. Both Baldur’s Gate and Icewind Dale, and to a lesser extent both their sequels, are revered for a range of reasons, but on top of that they’re far enough in the past that nostalgia is going to warp and alter exactly what people love about them. Identifying what that core expectation is when developing something new can’t have been easy.

"It’s not a case of pure logic," Sawyer tells me. "It’s not a case of, 'This is the most logically sensible thing.' It’s that this is the thing that is sensible enough, but also feels correct from the perspective of the player. And that’s a very difficult balance to strike, but that’s what we tried to do.’

It was here, in figuring out exactly what people were expecting and wanting from Pillars of Eternity, that their established audience of Kickstarter backers became an asset to development

"I think the whole process of Kickstarter was very good for us," Sawyer elaborates. "I think it gave our backers a lot more insight into the process of development, even if it could sometimes be frustrating for them.

This interview smacks of "it's not our fault, it's the players' fault for wanting what they did." If Obsidian continues to get feedback from players in their next games, count me out of future games. I'll not be hoodwinked twice.

I also categorically reject the "nostalgia" argument. If it was all about nostalgia, then I wouldn't still find the old IE games incredibly engaging and continue to play them at least once a year. It isn't about nostalgia. They're classics for a reason.

 

[Sensuki]

Yeah, I clearly don't understand why I like the Infinity Engine games.

 

[Hormalakh]

I didn't see it before, but now I really do: Josh does have a wonderful way with words. He has a wonderful way of putting down people without half of them noticing that he's doing it.

 

[Infinitron]

I didn't see it before, but now I really do: Josh does have a wonderful way with words. He has a wonderful way of putting down people without half of them noticing that he's doing it.

He's definitely putting down some people. Seems pretty clear to me that what he was saying in this interview is basically "Yep, I know I pissed off some people, but altogether, it was a net positive."

 

[Hormalakh]

He'll never lose you, right Infinitron? Well, one less backer is one less backer. My money will be spent elsewhere. More importantly, my time will be spent looking at other developers.

 

[Sensuki]

I don't believe they want to service grogs anyway.

 

[Infinitron]

He'll never lose you, right Infinitron? Well, one less backer is one less backer. My money will be spent elsewhere. More importantly, my time will be spent looking at other developers.

Probably not. His way of doing things generally agrees with me.

Even for those who don't, though, it seems like you're overreacting. Can't play 10 hours, really? That sounds to me more like you just don't feel like getting deep into this kind of game anymore, or at least not right now.

And no, the fact that you still enjoy the IE games isn't evidence against that. You've probably played those games so many times they're like a familiar pair of gloves.

 

[valcik]

Wainting for that american fantasy next. Manifest destiny and chewing gums, but chewing gums ain't even a thing yet.

All-American setting with new monsters and stuff? I suggest Grognoblins with a gatling!

Spoiler

 

[Raapys]

Pillars of Compromises

 

[Brotherman Bill]

I didn't see it before, but now I really do: Josh does have a wonderful way with words. He has a wonderful way of putting down people without half of them noticing that he's doing it.

Maybe it's just you then?

Idk, it seems like what he says is straightforward enough. When creating games you need to balance various aspects, I don't see how anyone could not understand this. It's just that the anti sawyer brigade are so, so butthurt if he says something they don't like, so they take it seriously, see this thread and a thousand others...

It's amusing that so many codexers, whom pretend to not care about offensiveness, turns into whiny little bitches if Sawyer criticises their game says that he chooses a different solution for his own game, or prefer solution x over y. Then it's obviously a targeted, personal insult

There is a simple answer to why it happens though: You are whiny little bitches. Waaaaah mommy Josh doesn't like class systems waaaaaaah

 

[imweasel]

I didn't play Pillars of Eternity much more than 10 hours myself. It doesn't take much longer than that to realize that Pillars of Eternity is garbage that isn't worth playing. The most fun I had with PoE was clicking on uninstall.

I also categorically reject the "nostalgia" argument. If it was all about nostalgia, then I wouldn't still find the old IE games incredibly engaging and continue to play them at least once a year. It isn't about nostalgia. They're classics for a reason.

You'll never hear a single word of praise come out of Sawyer's mouth in regard to the IE games. I think it is quite obvious that he simply isn't a fan and doesn't understand why people like them or like what he considers to be shitty game design.

He probably also thinks that Icewind Dale 2 is the only half ass decent IE game too, although we all know that IWD2 is the only true stinker amongst them.

 

[Infinitron]

Come on, you know that's not true.

Sawyer actually recently recommended Baldur's Gate 2 as the ideal Infinity Engine game to start with: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/pax-east-stream-thread.97594/page-3#post-3787316

 

[Sensuki]

I'm actually playing IWD2 now and my god, what on earth did they do to the targeting AI? It's fucking retarded compared to IWD1:HoW and the same bug where units just stand there and do nothing when there's pathing space has occured (like 9 orcs stacked up in a clump) when it never did in the other IE games.

Also seen units randomly teleporting and shit too (also another problem Pillars of Eternity has)

 

[Volrath]

I didn't play Pillars of Eternity much more than 10 hours myself. It doesn't take much longer than that to realize that Pillars of Eternity is garbage that isn't worth playing. The most fun I had with PoE was clicking on uninstall.

You conditioned yourself to hate PoE long before you ever played it though

 

[Ulrox]

I'm actually playing IWD2 now and my god, what on earth did they do to the targeting AI? It's fucking retarded compared to IWD1:HoW and the same bug where units just stand there and do nothing when there's pathing space has occured (like 9 orcs stacked up in a clump) when it never did in the other IE games.

Also seen units randomly teleporting and shit too (also another problem Pillars of Eternity has)

Yeah I completed it not too long ago, and it reminds me of PoE due to the insane amount of trash combat it has.

 

[Athelas]

mommy Josh

Photoshop plz

 

[Rake]

I believe the nostalgia is a real thing, but Josh has is ass backwards. I believe many people that dislike PoE's mechanics, agree 70+% with Darth Roxors/Felipepepe/Sensuki's critisisms, but they still say they found the game fun/had a positive experience despite agreeing that the game isn't that good, is because it reminds them of the IE games, and they can't help but being possitive towards it.
I know that's the case with me, and judging by the majority of the comments in DR article, which were "most of the critisisms are true, but Roxor is hyperbolic, the game wasn't that bad" make me think i'm not the only one. I recognize combat is just a chore for me, the story isn't that interesting so far,(still in Act 2) but i'm still founding the game a mildly entertaining experience because it's the closest thing i got to BG2, and it scratches that itch.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I didn't see it before, but now I really do: Josh does have a wonderful way with words. He has a wonderful way of putting down people without half of them noticing that he's doing it.

He's definitely putting down some people. Seems pretty clear to me that what he was saying in this interview is basically "Yep, I know I pissed off some people, but altogether, it was a net positive."

I don't believe they want to service grogs anyway.

I'll say it again then:

PoE was a game funded with gorgnards' money, designed towards casuals and journos.

According to Sawyer, Obsidian is pleased but vigilant, still​

I would have liked to know what exactly they are pleased about with the game besides sales/funding/internal success.​

That's a very relevant question I would very much like to ask Josh myself, considering every major aspect of the game's mechanics was unfinished at release, and still is. What's there to feel pleased about?

Well, I guess I got fooled once. It's forgivable.

 

[Grinning Reaper]

I didn't see it before, but now I really do: Josh does have a wonderful way with words. He has a wonderful way of putting down people without half of them noticing that he's doing it.

He's definitely putting down some people. Seems pretty clear to me that what he was saying in this interview is basically "Yep, I know I pissed off some people, but altogether, it was a net positive."

I don't believe they want to service grogs anyway.

I'll say it again then:

PoE was a game funded with gorgnards' money, designed towards casuals and journos.

Well, I guess I got fooled once. It's forgivable.

Ah, so you're laboring under the hilariously ridiculous assumption that at least half of the 77,000 backers are 1) grogs, and 2) as disappointed in the game as you are, and that casuals didn't contribute to funding the game.

Maybe you're just fooling yourself, which is forgivable.

 

[Irenaeus]

Great interview, looking forward for their next kickstarter and more improvements for PoE.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Ah, so you're laboring under the hilariously ridiculous assumption that at least half of the 77,000 backers are 1) grogs, and 2) as disappointed in the game as you are, and that casuals didn't contribute to funding the game.

Maybe you're just fooling yourself, which is forgivable.

1. I think the majority were old-time fans of the IE games. For the meaning of "grognards", if you want to fight over words, you'll have to ask Sawyer.
2. I am not surprised by the game's quality because I've been following it since August 2013 and I was well aware they were releasing the next Backer Beta as a '1.0 gold' game.
3. However, I was much more optimistic/too optimistic about the part of content which was not visible in the Backer Beta, until I got to play it. That's how you could say I've fooled myself. No one is safe from wishful thinking.

I do believe that most backers' expectations were not met, for reasons I've mentioned - nothing in this game was 'gold' at the time of release, and the developers have admitted it for certain game aspects. If you don't like this, then seek further help for your butthurt elsewhere.

I'm having a good time laughing at fanboys singing praises to a game the developers themselves considered unfinished.