Decline RPS Top 50 FPS

[DraQ]

I'm wondering where all the Wolfenstein: new order hate comes from. I'm really not a fps guy, but this was one that kept me engaged. The level design and variety was superb, gunplay felt good, story was decent. Would prefer it over most modern military shooters any day.

Looks like Daggerfall level AI.

With all the third party libraries, frameworks and middleware used by mainstream games today I didn't even expect this kind of low being still physically achievable.

 

[Trodat]

I would really like to enjoy a new proper Wolfenstein game but I just can't stomach the consolization.

Oh yeah, and that list is good for it's humour value.

 

[praetor]

Eh, back when it was a mod for Half-Life, it was pretty novel. There weren't (to the best of my knowledge... I think Rainbow Six came after CS) any multiplayer FPS'es where people could die from a single bullet.

i don't remember the specifics, but there was also the Firearms mod for HL1, made and released around the same time as CS and also revolving around modern times and real firearms and stuff... don't remember much about game modes and if 1 bullet was enough to kill, but i remember that CS maps at the time were much better

another mod that was criminally overlooked back then was Infiltration for UT99, quite realistic (maybe the most realistic shooter at the time), cool loadout options, tons of customization options, very good sound design, some excellent maps... it was kinda ugly, though, compared to CS and other HL mods, and had a significantly slower dev team

 

[Snorkack]

The level design was occasionally interesting, but mostly it was the typical segmented garbage meant to fit console hardware. Enemies were overpopulous bullet sponges, and the gunplay lost its impact since you could dual wield any weapon and find ammo anywhere.

The story was kind of enjoyable, but it was laden with cutscenes and those unskippable one-on-one bits that are in every game now to make the villain seem unjustifiable and to show off the facial motion capture work they were able to afford on their bloated budget. Plus the home base missions were extremely tedious. One objective was actually called, "Find the moldy concrete."

Interesting! I found the fact that you not only can carry any weapon you find with you, but also dualwield even assaoult rifles and auto-shotguns (and jam half the screen with the oversized models) extremely hilarious and fun to shoot with. I'd agree with you on the cutscenes, but since I haven't played it more than once I was never tempted to skip them. But yeah, it IS a big no-no.

Superb? Really?

New Order had its corridors and linear levels, for sure. But the environmental variety was what kept me playing. I wanted to know to which interesting place I would be taken to next. You actually can explore the levels and find secrets! You can run in all guns blazing and dont have to wait for your comrades to open an area for you. You don't die when you go into seemingly open areas but are not part of the mission area. Which games did such 'bold' things, too in the last few years? Weren't many. Most of them were remakes, too.

I mean, as I said, I'm not one to judge wheter this game belongs in a top 50 FPS list, since I have only played a handful of the one compiled by the RPS guy (although those were mostly the best FPS's I played, Serious Sam excluded) But it certainly is a better game as the original Wolf3D gameplay-wise, contrary to what OP suggests.

 

[chestburster]

story was decent. Would prefer it over most modern military shooters any day.

what story? I gave up on the game at the point when the story went "Jews invented ancient super technology and Nazis stole it". Does the story go anywhere after this?

 

[DraQ]

But it certainly is a better game as the original Wolf3D gameplay-wise, contrary to what OP suggests.

Original Wolf3D is one of those few games that are of historical interest but actually *have* been made obsolete by technological progress, so making something worse gameplay-wise today would be physically hard (although I'm certain not impossible).

 

[Astral Rag]

But it certainly is a better game as the original Wolf3D gameplay-wise, contrary to what OP suggests.

Heresy, Wolf 3D is (obviously...) a proper FPS whereas nu-wolf is just another derp-laden cinematic console corridor shooter. Could you list some examples of nu-wolf's better gameplay or did you meant to say that nu-wolf has shinier graphics and is therefore a better game?

Do you think people will still be modding and playing nu-wolf and Doom 4 twenty five years from now?

 

[Snorkack]

C'mon man. If you strip the nostalgia away (and the hilarious enemy dubs), not much is left what makes Wolf 3D worth playing today. And yes - shinier graphics do make a difference here: As I said, in new order I was always intrigued what scenery awaits me the next, while in W3D I always knew the next level would always be the same rectangular blue mazes with an occassional swastika flag inbetween.
It's imho only the edgyness and gore that made this game stand out those days. Not even the technical aspect was new, the id software guys already made a similar game with this engine at that time - too bad you couldn't shoot nazis who yell "Mein Layben!" therefore no one cared - because it's been mediocre at best.
Doom was the real id masterpiece that aged very well.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

C'mon man. If you strip the nostalgia away

Ah, yes the nostalgia argument. So strong, so convincing.

What matters to me is not nostalgic feelings but fun, it's just plain more enjoyable to start up ole Wolf 3D, shoot up nazis and hunt for keys for a few hours rather than suffer through some ultra-linear, cutscene ridden, slow-paced, popamole trash where developer does his utmost best to turn the game into a fucking movie and force feed us his shitty story.

not much is left what makes Wolf 3D worth playing today.

Fast paced gameplay, deadly weapons and enemies, sound, atmosphere, level design (yes mazelike level design is far from optimal but it's still miles better than linear action corridors).

If anything, it's more worth playing today than it was in mid-late 90s- early 2000s when proper FPS games were still being made and the competition was fierce in that genre.

 

[Quatlo]

When I see fucktards thinking the UT99 announcer is from CS because of mods I want to murder.

That's actually depressing.

I usually meet CS:GO shitters that think that UT99 announcer in CS mods was originally from Quake 3, no kidding.

 

[Snorkack]

...

I would adress all the points you made, but I don't see us getting anywhere. I just seem to lack empathy for why anyone would still want to play W3D nowadays.

One major argument against New Order seems to be the ultra linear corridor levels - fair enough (although I'd say it is not as bad as you imply, and certainly not through the whole game). If you compare it to, lets say, a Stalker game, or System Shock I'd admit you are right. But how is W3D any better here? How does the non-linearity of the maps add value to the experience? You walk around, choose one of two indistinguishable doors, mow your way through enemies and stand in front of a locked room realizing you should have taken the other door first to get the key. So you go all the way back, clear the second branch to get the key and backtrack all the way back to the locked door, waddling through corpses left and right because once you clear them, those areas don't provide any more threats whatsoever. Maybe you get lost in the process, but not because of ingenious and tricky level design, but because every single room and corridor looks exactly the same in shape and texture. Wouldn't you agree that a more linear approach is an improvement over this scenario?

Edit: One thing I get though. New Order is not a game which you can fire up and start shooting everything in sight. These games are rare indeed these days. Although I don't mind the aristotelic-dramatic approach to FPSes, as long as it is carefully executed and doesn't take the player's control away every few seconds.

 

[Average Manatee]

I didn't think it would be this hard to agree that both Wolf3D and The New Order have no reason to be played today. Maybe play Wolf3D once for the historical novelty.

 

[DraQ]

not much is left what makes Wolf 3D worth playing today.

Fast paced gameplay, deadly weapons and enemies, sound, atmosphere, level design (yes mazelike level design is far from optimal but it's still miles better than linear action corridors).

Fuck, no.

You don't play a game with only a crudely implemented basic pistol, automatic weapon and faster automatic weapon for its weapons.
Fast paced gameplay is available from myriads of titles, each more exciting than "press fire to not die", flat mazes of corridors all alike are just as awful as single corridors, other things equal, and whatever atmosphere there is, is ruined by crude, garish visuals (seriously, why so many things that obviously shouldn't be blue or teal are?), poor animations (some even prosperous*) and shitty repetitive level design.

A game stays relevant as long as it can provide (worthwhile) sufficiently unique mechanics, unique content or (rarely) unique presentation.
Or if the combination of the above it provides is sufficiently unique in terms of positive qualities.
If it doesn't, it's obsolete because it's been entirely superseded by something else.

If anything, it's more worth playing today than it was in mid-late 90s- early 2000s when proper FPS games were still being made and the competition was fierce in that genre.

It isn't any more worth playing, since all those proper FPS games haven't mysteriously vanished leaving poor Wolf3D behind.

One major argument against New Order seems to be the ultra linear corridor levels - fair enough (although I'd say it is not as bad as you imply, and certainly not through the whole game).

Judging from the vids the AI is a much bigger problem.

I didn't think it would be this hard to agree that both Wolf3D and The New Order have no reason to be played today. Maybe play Wolf3D once for the historical novelty.

*

 

[ZagorTeNej]

You don't play a game with only a crudely implemented basic pistol, automatic weapon and faster automatic weapon for its weapons.

Crude yes but effective, you can quickly mow down enemies but they can also whittle your health down very fast if they surprise you or if you don't react fast enough. You don't feel like you're both wielding pea shooters as is often the case in console shooters.

Fast paced gameplay is available from myriads of titles, each more exciting than "press fire to not die"

Unless you know the game and beat it numerous times, just charging into rooms guns blazing can get you killed fast on Death Incarnate, moving and checking corners still plays a big part, so does exploration and searching for health packs (food and first aid kits in this game), weapons and ammo that are often in secret areas.

flat mazes of corridors all alike are just as awful as single corridors...

Not even close. The difference is, while Wolf3D mazelike level design has many issues it still has actual levels that you have to beat (explore, find keys and exits). Modern shooters don't have levels, they have movie set pieces, shooting parts stuffed in-between cutscenes, you can't get lost because you're just following a straight line and the game is holding your hand and pulling you to where you need to go to see the next big explosion.

whatever atmosphere there is, is ruined by crude, garish visuals (seriously, why so many things that obviously shouldn't be blue or teal are?), poor animations (some even prosperous*) and shitty repetitive level design.

That game was never meant to be realistic, different colours were there for diversity, to give different episodes their visual style. Sure, the game had very few art assets so they did what they could to differentiate between levels.

A game stays relevant as long as it can provide (worthwhile) sufficiently unique mechanics, unique content or (rarely) unique presentation.Or if the combination of the above it provides is sufficiently unique in terms of positive qualities.
If it doesn't, it's obsolete because it's been entirely superseded by something else.

The game doesn't have to innovate to be good/fun in its own right and just because Wolf3D has been surpassed in every facet of the game by later titles doesn't mean it still isn't far superior to the current sad offerings in the genre that has been utterly ruined by consoles and failed wanna be movie directors turned game developers.

It isn't any more worth playing, since all those proper FPS games haven't mysteriously vanished leaving poor Wolf3D behind

It is, if you played all those superior FPS games to death or are looking for some gory Nazi-killing fun.

 

[CryptRat]

My FPS list :
1. MM6
2. MM7
3. MM8
4. Vampire : Bloodlines
5. Morrowind

 

[oddech_wymarlych_swiatow]

Mutated abominations Post-2000 fpp shooters should have their own category. An inferior one of course.

 

[Sykar]

Mutated abominations Post-2000 fpp shooters should have their own category. An inferior one of course.

FPT = First Person Turds?

 

[Angthoron]

Trust it to a 24-FPS-locked site to make a Top 50 FPS list. Hurr.

 

[Astral Rag]

The Wolf 3D detractors ITT would probably feel more at home on the RPS or Gamespot message boards.

Let me guess you guys also prefer Bioshlock and Skyrim over SS and UU because OMG guyz those OLD gamez look so old now and the NEW gamez look waaaay better now adays!! they are also not so long anymore but they have have a lots and a lots of awsome cinematiks. (liek watching a cool shooter movies AND some of the time playing it also :D :D ) Theyre soo muuuch fun and much lesser confusing and I always just wanna like WIN my games ROFL ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ . I realy like showing many chievos to frienz .. LOL.. and they actualli work on my XBOx on the sofa! Computors are not really amd e for playing the game anyways !!!

 

[CyberP]

Heresy, Wolf 3D is (obviously...) a proper FPS whereas nu-wolf is just another derp-laden cinematic console corridor shooter. Could you list some examples of nu-wolf's better gameplay or did you meant to say that nu-wolf has shinier graphics and is therefore a better game?

Question: why is it specifically a console shooter? I thought it and pretty much every other shitty cinematic linear FPS were both PC and console shooters? Didn't the first FPS games of this type originate on the PC (Calla Dooty)? Did console shooters and PC shooters not also used to be one and the same in the 90s? (Yes they did - almost all were fast paced Doom-inspired run & gunners). Even Halo, an initial contributor to the decline, had open levels, no objective markers, no aim down sights etc.
There never has been a staggering difference between console shooters and PC shooters. That this misconception is so prevalent is p. idiotic. Take a look at console-exclusive FPS pre-decline: Exhumed/Powerslave, Goldeneye, Timesplitters, Perfect Dark,Alien Trilogy, the Turok games and so on, in addition to all the ports of Doom, Quake, Nukem, Wolfenstien and all that.
The modern garbage was conceptualized following the trend of the military shooters of the early-mid 2000s, which was a big thing on both console and PC...fuck knows why, I've still yet to play a military FPS with good singleplayer campaign beyond the first Medal of Honor in 1997, unless you include Return to Castle Wolfenstien and STALKER as military shooters.

I don't know if the blame can even be laid down equally; PC spawned garbage such as Calla Dooty, Battlefield, Counterstrike, Half-Life (good game, but still a contributor to the decline some say) and Crysis. Console exclusive shooter garbage around that time consisted of Halo, and what else? As far as I am aware, that was it in terms of garbage exclusives.

tl;dr check your ignorance.

 

[pippin]

I'm quite sure Exhumed/Powerslave had a pc port. Or at least it was a pc game ported to consoles.
Also, most console ports of Doom are shit. The worst being, IMO, the SNES one, although the red cart gimmick was kinda cool if you were 10. The n64 one was good, though, but not a "real" port, more like a spinoff.

Question for you bros. Any of you remember Tenka? I played it as a kid, and remember it to be sinister and hard (at least I wasn't quick enough to react sometimes). Most references I find now say it was a PSX game, but I'm sure it had a PC port as well.

 

[CyberP]

I'm quite sure Exhumed/Powerslave had a pc port. Or at least it was a pc game ported to consoles.

Exhumed, Alien Trilogy, Turok and Tenka were initially console games later ported to PC.
PSX port of Doom and Nukem were great, especially so for the soundtracks but they are made beyond obsolete by mods (and those that rip the soundtracks).

 

[sexbad?]

Doom rendered Wolfenstein 3D obsolete right away. Holy shit, you guys.

 

[Cazzeris]

I found Wolfenstein 3-D and its expansion Spear of Destiny to be genuinely fun. Those games offer plenty of memorable moments and levels that showed actual creativity and surprised me in various ways (I specially remember nazis hiding inside fake elevators, interestingly placed secret containing lots of cool and epic treasures that made me feel somewhat rewarded, huge levels where the player had to be ready for the mutants attacking in packs, that awesome map at Spear of Destiny that consists on a square that goes round the Übermutant...).

Also, the visuals and sounds where very distinctive and totally unforgettable. I still think some tracks can be counted between the most epic videogame music:

Spoiler

https://youtu.be/Xi4EYKX8Z-E?list=PL8519820291D72B04
https://youtu.be/qsg8XNFSNr4?list=PL8519820291D72B04
https://youtu.be/hLtFJJxcjk4?list=PL8519820291D72B04
https://youtu.be/SV-MzmB35ks?list=PL8519820291D72B04
https://youtu.be/V-u-CpMUzgk?list=PL8519820291D72B04
https://youtu.be/55oi7p3aWVI?list=PL8519820291D72B04
https://youtu.be/usidnQcehnQ?list=PL8519820291D72B04
https://youtu.be/X1hiFwzWxXs?list=PL8519820291D72B04
https://youtu.be/dDdEwQGQ3w8?list=PL8519820291D72B04
https://youtu.be/y3w-bE7LHZs?list=PL8519820291D72B04
https://youtu.be/7qRT2dr5718?list=PL8519820291D72B04
https://youtu.be/3RiXRd0GFuk?list=PL8519820291D72B04
(Good shit)
https://youtu.be/3CVUPNZxCoA?list=PL8519820291D72B04

Maybe I've posted too many, but they're just so cool.

Edit: In conclusion, I think Wolfenstein 3-D and Spear of Destiny feature some really great level design and have a ton of personality attached to them (something I seriously doubt The New Order provides). And I'd take proper, direct gameplay with a couple of cheesily-written walls o' text over popamole scripted crap any day.

It's an inferior formula to the one that replaced it, but that doesn't mean Wolf3D isn't worth-playing.

 

[ultimanecat]

Question for you bros. Any of you remember Tenka?

Clearly you mean TekWar. Don't know how RPS kept it off of the list.