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Hearthstone

Zeriel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
13,380
Guys, you just need to outplay Nefarian. I'm sure this Rag can easily deal with this turn 2 board. :')

IAGRFtp.jpg
 

Phage

Arcane
Manlet
Joined
Jan 10, 2010
Messages
4,696
Yeah Zerial, just play the 6/6 taunt! EZ! BTW Dr. Boom is sooooooooooo OP!!!!!!! Pay2Win!!
 

FeelTheRads

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
13,716
More like 600 comments of multiple games in that reddit thread all confirming a ~80% winrate for Nef. Durrrrrrrrrrrr

Meanwhile FeelTheRads gets lucky with 3 games and pretends that his anecdotal evidence trumps that. Strongest hypocrisy NA. "My anecdotal evidence better than this greater amount of anecdotal evidence!"

Oh wait, you're STILL anally devastated that I was right Dr. Boom isn't and never was overpowered. Okay, good to know that you Euro infants are salty about that.

Oh my 600 comments coming most likely from the same kind of dumbasses who lost two games and concluded the game is broken. Pretty much the same kind full of themselves dumbasses like you and Metro. Two games, probably didn't even know what's in the whole deck: waaaaaaaah if i lose a game it means it's borken

But it's factual evidence when the game mode was just released, and everyone start crying about it without even knowing what's in the decks. Sure.

I have quite a bigger win percentage with Rag than with Nefarian, btw. I know that makes me a bad player who is lucky and only gets queued against worse players while everyone who loses with Rag is a great player who gets unlucky and is queued only against even greater players, but I won't even take into consideration dumbass shit statements like: "I lost two games CAN ANYONE EVEN DEFEAT NEFARIAN????"
I don't even care if technically the two decks are not perfectly balanced. I have no idea, but even if it's more difficult to win as Rag (although pretty obviously not by a lot unless you get really unlucky and the opponent really lucky), this kind of butthurt is pretty hilarious.

Keep up the butthurt, though. All I have to do is pull the ropes and you start dancing like the puppet you are.

Yeah, you are absolutely correct Boom is not OP. You totally proved it. :lol:
 
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Zeriel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
13,380
You realize you're calling a guy who is Legend in Constructed a "dumbass" who "only played two games"?

You're just wrong, let it go and move along.
 

UglyBastard

Arcane
Joined
Jun 29, 2014
Messages
821
Who is Legend in Constructed?
I'm pretty sure if Phage actually sat on his ass and did it for once he would not miss the opportunity to brag about it here.

btw. Nefarian > Rag obv., but it's not as bad as I initially thought. Nefarian is the aggro/tempo player in this matchup and just how aggressive decks work in Hearthstone, he sometimes gets a draw that just facerolls you or you don't draw the exact answer as control (Ragna) and lose. Nefarian not getting some OpieOP shit from his hero power is mandatory as well.
I'd say it's about 70/30, at least for me. Results may vary if one or both are played by morons.
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
6,933
Wait, people phage and metro are butthurt that tavern brawl is imbalanced? What the heck did you even expect?
 

Phage

Arcane
Manlet
Joined
Jan 10, 2010
Messages
4,696
I'm not butthurt per say, I'm just flabbergasted that the first Brawl they did was this ridiculously imbalanced precon vs precon. Like, you want to give people a great first impression, not setup something that primarily comes down to who gets Nefarian. I mostly just like curbstomping plebs like FeelTheRads.

Also, I'm in agreement with UglyBastard that if the Ragnaros player knows how to use the deck he has a ~30% shot of winning. You have to survive until you get your hero power. and hope Nefarian doesn't RNG a bunch of free flamestrikes/siphon soul/etc. Problem is that's still way too low when you have no other options than which of the two the game gives you.
 

sser

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Messages
1,866,662
Nef is just RNG central. Flatout, there's nothing Rag can do if Nef is pulling fireballs and mind controls for his spells. You also insta-lose if there's a Velastrasza or whatever card in his starting hand.

Edit: last three games as Rag, Nef has pulled fireball for the 6hp taunt, a Starfall for the 4/5 windfury, and a MC for the 6/6 taunt. 0-mana spells as they are... yeah not much fun. The free card pack was nice, though.
 

Metro

Arcane
Beg Auditor
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
27,792
That's it in a nutshell. As Rag you need mediocre to poor RNG from the Nef player and good RNG of your own. That's not balanced. I'm not hurt butt mcbutthurt over it; merely pointing out the obvious. The people saying: 'herp derp I won 1,000,000 games as Rag: what were your draws like? What were Nef's draws like? What spells did he get. I'm sorry but starting at 5 mana and generating 0 cost spells for 2 mana is one hell of an advantage.
 

Phage

Arcane
Manlet
Joined
Jan 10, 2010
Messages
4,696
So, I've reevaluated my opinions a bit.

The mode is heavily flawed not necessarily because Nefarian is flat out unbeatable, it's because Nefarian has the possibility of obtaining positions where he cannot lose very early, or just pulling a win out of his ass via the hero power.

There is, as shown multiple times now, the infamous starts involving the 6 mana legendary that reduces all of your card costs by 3. Getting that card early can flat out mean you just win the game on the spot. If you play the cost reduction dragon on turn 1 (with coin) or 2, you've already gotten immense value out of it and there is no way for Ragnaros to kill it that early. He has to wait until 3 mana to play the "deal 6" battlecry minion IF he has it.

Additionally, Nefarian's deck has 2 Dragon Consorts and, coincidentally, a deck chock full of incredibly powerful dragons. It's not unheard of to go, say T1 Dragon Consort, T2 Chromaggus. Good fucking luck beating that after Nefarian has drawn a few bonus cards. Even getting a cheap Chromatic Dragon or Dragonkin Hatcher is extremely strong early.

Presuming the Nefarian didn't flat out win the game from goldfishing with mana reduction shit there is the issue of his hero power. It's just too random. You either get something unusable (deadly poison, totemic might, etc) or a 2 mana flamestrike/mind control/lay on hands/ etc. Even something like a 2 mana Assassinate or Recycle can end up being backbreaking.

It's true that Ragnaros generally has a stronger late-game, but Nefarian effectively draws a card every turn. It is not uncommon for Ragnaros to actually run out of cards before Nefarian despite starting off with less mana and being considered the "control" deck of the matchup. Additionally, as mentioned before, even if the Ragnaros survives the early game and gets his hero power, Nefarian can luck out with a clutch MC or whatever, he can just sweep the rug from under Rag's feet randomly.

In conclusion

Yes, Ragnaros can win, but more often than not Nefarian should win. He has an undoubtedly stronger early game, capable of essentially winning on turn 1/2. Even if Rag survives to his favored lategame, Nefarian can still flip the table with the hero power. Just because you got lucky as Rag facing off against a retarded Euro with a basic cardback who's never touched ranked, or someone with a hand full of deadly poisons and totemic mights doesn't change anything.

This is a 'problem' because there are no options. You cannot construct/modify a deck to counter this. You don't choose whether you want to play as Rag or Nef. You enter the match and have a 50/50 chance to either get the guy who should win ~75% of the time or the guy who should win ~25% of the time.

This would've been way better if they gave us, say, 4 options to choose from. Throw in Kel'Thuzad and Emperor Thurasan or something. Could've made for a really neat metagame where certain raid bosses beat out others, etc. Instead we've got a series of coin flips, and frankly, Hearthstone is enough of a coin flipper to begin with.
 

Phage

Arcane
Manlet
Joined
Jan 10, 2010
Messages
4,696
And before "hurrr ur just not a pro!!" is retorted by the hurtest of butts, let us examine this picture

d4c2eebc0ad878514ab1a45adfc2dc4c.png


Attention to the winrates on the left hand side.

This guy DOES play Hearthstone as a job and he's played well over 100 games of Tarvern Brawl. This is a literal professional player who actually took the time to fuck around in this mode. He has a positive winrate with Rag, yes, but it pales in comparison to his winrate with Nef.

Anyway, it doesnt matter since this event is gone in 2 days. Just wanted to continue curbstomping since that's all this thread is good for other than complaining about prices of stuff :smug:
 

sser

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Messages
1,866,662
Finally. Managed to unlock all of BRM with gold. Now I guess I'll go through Naxx...
 

Phage

Arcane
Manlet
Joined
Jan 10, 2010
Messages
4,696
Meanwhile Ratsmah just literally and actually got six 12-win arena runs in a row. latest was a 12-0. he's also up to 10k viewers. git destroyed non believers (actually his stream got obnoxious with all the stupid sub pop ups, noise clips, etc. but he's still undoubtedly the best arena player period right now)
 
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Grubba

Arcane
Joined
Jan 10, 2012
Messages
992
(actually his stream got obnoxious with all the stupid sub pop ups, noise clips, etc.

This is why a lot of the popular streams are completely intolerable. How can anyone stand to watch when it's just a barrage of sub overlays and Dr. Sbaitso reading inane messages? The exception to this is Forsen's stream, which is actually funny and entertaining.

Still boggles my mind that some of these top streamers rake in the $$$ from donations and subs. Why the fuck would anyone give them money?
 

Phage

Arcane
Manlet
Joined
Jan 10, 2010
Messages
4,696
Well I'm putting up with it because this current accomplishment is absofuckinglutely insane and it's entertaining to watch history (even if it's just herpstone) in the making. Six 12 win runs in a row? I had always said that Ratsmah was one of if not the strongest arena player, even if his personality can be boring or off putting. Regardless, not too sure how anyone can doubt his ability now.
 

Metro

Arcane
Beg Auditor
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
27,792
MEN, could you stop posting and chatting in Shoutbox and fucking play so I can get my card pack?
 

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