Decline Sword Coast Legends - RIP n-Space!

[Elzair]

Please sir, I want some MOAR!!

 

[DeepOcean]

Elzair here ya go:

Let's Play Sword Coast Legends Story Mode #10
https://youtu.be/yH9MnahJiAA

This episode: Dirty dealing with Burkins (like we expected any less), chats with the Dead Rats and our first foray into Luskan proper. Even though Luskan is never quite proper.

What is funny is that the art assets aren't all that bad, if they had delayed this game for six months or so and implemented a real editor and a not so dumb down version of DnD with some decent fights, it could be a decent title. I really don't get Wizards of the Coast and N-Space, they dumb down the game because they thought would sell more, then they lied about the dumb down implying that they were afraid of people discovering how limited the game was, if they thought they had to lie why the fuck did they dumb down the game in the first place? Divinity Original Sin sold more than 1 million copies by now, did nobody at Wizard of the Coast thought... hmmm, maybe we shouldn't dumb down this game so much. I really don't understand their thinking, when I played NWN for the first time I knew next to nothing about 3rd edition DnD and played the game fine. DnD is already a pretty simple system, it is like Wizards of the Coast don't trust their own brands anymore.

 

[animlboogy]

They had years to get an appropriate F2P version of Magic: The Gathering going on PC/mobile and they let Blizzard take their sweet ass time before dominating the space. They want to protect their brands from digital so strongly that they're probably just slowly killing their brands in the process anyway.

Like, would having games teach how D&D combat actually works take anybody away from tabletop? Would Magic being as big as Hearthstone somehow lead to less, rather than a shitload more people showing up on Friday night magic?

 

[Elzair]

I do not give a shit about Magic: the Gathering or any collectable card games. I always thought video game versions of collectable cards games were an especially inane idea. Developers released a slew of these games for the Gameboy in the late '90s - early '00s; I got sick of reading about them in Nintendo Power. Even my twelve-year-old self preferred a digitized representation of a hero with a big fucking sword to a digitized representation of a paper representation of a hero with a big fucking sword. I still think developers make these games partially to do less work while avoiding condemnation by graphics whores.

However, I hope someone buys Dungeons & Dragons from Hasbro and treats it properly.

 

[sstacks]

What is funny is that the art assets aren't all that bad...

A lot of the visuals / art assets are really good in my opinion.

 

[Alchemist]

Ok yeah so Chris Perkins from D&D is in, and I think at least one of the Dans from n-Space this Saturday.

sstacks On your show, can you ask Chris Perkins WTF WotC was thinking letting N-space do what they did with SCL? You can paraphrase the question and be more tactful about it if you prefer...

Mainly I'm wondering why it was allowed to diverge so much from the 5E rules, and if WotC is aware of the fact that there's large contingent of people out here that want a proper turn-based, rules-accurate D&D CRPG.

By the way, I've been enjoying your radio show. I listen to the podcast version while working. Keep up the good work!

 

[Telengard]

Why even ask? They've answered that question like a billion times already.

1) WotC and Hasbro don't care if video game devs make games that follow the d&d rules as long as it "feels like d&d". And if that wasn't the case, Baldur's Gate would never have gotten made. So suck it down - this is just another take on what Bioware envisioned for d&d.
2) There's only 500,000 d&d nerds. There's 2,000,000 old Bioware fans, 1,500,000 of which couldn't care less about d&d. And finally, there's 5,000,000 lovers of new Bioware. And those d&d nerds have proven time and time again they won't buy a game that's niched to only 500,000 buyers. They turn their noses up at games with "dated" graphics and without all the options.

 

[DeepOcean]

2) There's only 500,000 d&d nerds.

Where did you get this number? I tought WoTC don't release sales numbers.

 

[Telengard]

That's a functional industry guestimate of d&d crpg nerds that was based around sales of Gold Box, d&d blobber, and IE games. Made because, base sales were about the same for all of them.

What's more, TOEE posted same numbers as all the rest, maybe a bit worse.

So to run down the list:

• The public stopped buying Gold Boxes soon as they began to look "Dated"
• The industry called the IEs and blobbers "Dated" as soon as they came out, and other than Bioware, they didn't make big bux
• And the functionally illiterate TOEE came DOA

A much better question to ask the WotC guy would be: why do you think people don't buy real d&d video games?

 

[Telengard]

Or let me put that another way - go get 2.5 million people to buy Knights of the Chalice right now. You'd have a bona-fide d&d game on your doorstep 1.8 years from now, just in time for Christmas sakes. Because that would show the suits at Hasbro/WotC there's millions of d&d crpg nerds out there, ready to buy anything that comes out regardless of graphical prowess.

Instead of, you know, millions of Bioware fans who followed Bioware right out of d&d when that company left.

 

[Volourn]

"That's a functional industry guestimate of d&d crpg nerds that was based around sales of Gold Box, d&d blobber, and IE games. Made because, base sales were about the same for all of them."

BIO's DnD game sold over 2mil each not a measily 500k.

What's more, TOEE posted same numbers as all the rest, maybe a bit worse.
\

TOEE bombed no matter how much Troika and their apologists try to spin it.

Theyw ere bragging about all the expansions and sequels theyw ere gonna do... and NADDA. LMAO


As for this game, HAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

[Oesophagus]

Can't be bothered to go through this thread, is this game shite or not?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Can't be bothered to go through this thread, is this game shite or not?

Yes.

 

[Roguey]

"TOEE bombed no matter how much Troika and their apologists try to spin it."

It was their fastest-selling game and Tim Cain said all Troika games eventually made a profit. It wasn't profitable enough for Atari's liking though.

 

[DavidBVal]

"TOEE bombed no matter how much Troika and their apologists try to spin it."

It was their fastest-selling game and Tim Cain said all Troika games eventually made a profit. It wasn't profitable enough for Atari's liking though.

The problem is you need to recover your investment shortly upon release, or it will be chalked down as failure.

Because with some random shooter you probably will, so anything below that, even if you make a profit years later, is marked with a red X.

 

[Roguey]

The problem is you need to recover your investment shortly upon release, or it will be chalked down as failure.

Because with some random shooter you probably will, so anything below that, even if you make a profit years later, is marked with a red X.

It was made by a team of fewer than 20 people in 19 months, so I imagine it did break even in a reasonable timeframe. It sold slightly more than Fallout 2 (another slam dunk) within two years.

 

[sstacks]

I give TOEE props for trying real hard to do basically a full implement of 3E rules. That's a heck of a lot of math to try to get working.

 

[Volourn]

Look. It sure didn't take long for the apologist rivisionist bukllshitter fanboyz to come along and spew bullshitz.


If it was so successful we would have a dozen follow ups. Troika was bragging about how TOEE would be their 'gold box series'. LMFAO

 

[sstacks]

Can't be bothered to go through this thread, is this game shite or not?

sstacks On your show, can you ask Chris Perkins WTF WotC was thinking letting N-space do what they did with SCL? You can paraphrase the question and be more tactful about it if you prefer...

Mainly I'm wondering why it was allowed to diverge so much from the 5E rules, and if WotC is aware of the fact that there's large contingent of people out here that want a proper turn-based, rules-accurate D&D CRPG.

By the way, I've been enjoying your radio show. I listen to the podcast version while working. Keep up the good work!

Flattery will get you everywhere

Yes, I'll try to ask a version of this.

Show today. Details immediately following in a follow up post.

EDIT: Glad you like the show and thanks for listening!

 

[sstacks]

Show goes live today at 1:05 PM Central / 11:05 AM Pacific / 2:05 PM Eastern.

You can listen live via the online stream at http://saleminteractivemedia.com/ListenLive/Player/KDISFM

EDIT: I am normally on a different broadcast station, temporarily on Faith Talk 99.5 FM.

It will also go out after the fact as a podcast in a day or two. Feel free to call in at 501-823-0965 or tweet at @ShanePlays during the show.

 

[Roguey]

"Look. It sure didn't take long for the apologist rivisionist bukllshitter fanboyz to come along and spew bullshitz."

I'm not being revisionist. Facts: According to the NPD, Fallout sold 144,000 and Fallout 2 sold 123,000 copies in North America retail stores after three and two years. Temple of Elemental Evil sold 128,000 copies in the same markets in two years. I don't know Fallout 2's budget, but ToEE definitely cost less to make than Fallout (~20 at max for 19 months vs ~30 at max for 3.5 years).

 

[darthaegis]

"Look. It sure didn't take long for the apologist rivisionist bukllshitter fanboyz to come along and spew bullshitz."

I'm not being revisionist. Facts: According to the NPD, Fallout sold 144,000 and Fallout 2 sold 123,000 copies in North America retail stores after three and two years. Temple of Elemental Evil sold 128,000 copies in the same markets in two years. I don't know Fallout 2's budget, but ToEE definitely cost less to make than Fallout (~20 at max for 19 months vs ~30 at max for 3.5 years).

It was only on the third year they had 30 employees working on Fallout, and the first 6 months was just Tim Cain. Probably about the same cost?

 

[Roguey]

It was only on the third year they had 30 employees working on Fallout, and the first 6 months was just Tim Cain. Probably about the same cost?

Given the scope of each, that's still doubtful. ToEE very likely cost more than a million, but I doubt it was much more than 2.

 

[Elzair]

sstacks: MOAR!

 

[sstacks]

sstacks On your show, can you ask Chris Perkins WTF WotC was thinking letting N-space do what they did with SCL? You can paraphrase the question and be more tactful about it if you prefer...

Mainly I'm wondering why it was allowed to diverge so much from the 5E rules, and if WotC is aware of the fact that there's large contingent of people out here that want a proper turn-based, rules-accurate D&D CRPG.

By the way, I've been enjoying your radio show. I listen to the podcast version while working. Keep up the good work!

I basically pointed out that folks are saying SCL is not D&D, then asked Ash and Chris if they felt it was D&D. A good part of the show conversation was discussing what D&D is, etc.