Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Excidium II]

Fuck writers doing anything that isn't writing in general

Of course he is. Who do you think write his lines?

 

[DosBuster]

he's a designer who also writes, designers and even writers tend to script their content into the game. scripting isn't even that hard.

 

[Joni Odin von Hassenstein]

Your mistake was asking on the inXile forums instead of CMcC Adam Heine ksaun Brother None

Well...

 

[Roguey]

Also, he's the ultimate cuck for adopting a dozen kids from other daddies - that should tell you about his loser personality.

Oh hey, you were noticed.

 

[Irenaeus II]

I am to be pitied, men.

 

[Infinitron]

UPDAAAAAAAAAATE: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/torment-tides-of-numenera/posts/1459003

Beta coming January 17th!

Hello Exiles, Brian Fargo here.

Here we are in 2016, 17 years after the original Planescape Torment hit the scene and became a cult classic. This is finally the year for the spiritual successor to become a reality. I’m proud to tell you that Torment: Tides of Numenera Beta will be coming to all eligible backers during the week of January 17th and to Steam Early Access on the 26th of January. The team is incredibly passionate about this game and it shows in every aspect of their work. Having the opportunity to create a wholly original experience and intricate world is exactly why we got in the games business to begin with.

The beta will start you right in the beginning of the game and is quite lengthy for an early beta. It covers the game's introductory sequence (some of which you may have already seen a portion of in the alpha) as well as most of the first major location of the game, Sagus Cliffs. Sagus is a very old city that was built on top of ancient structures that predate the return of humanity to the Ninth World. It's split into five main districts: Circus Minor, Cliff's Edge, Caravanserai, Government Square and the Underbelly. As you might expect from a city location, it is rich in lore to discover, characters to talk with and obviously quests to complete!

Of course, we'll be looking to gather your feedback and use it to improve the game. During the alpha, we had a direct feedback form in the game and we'll likely provide that again, as it turned out to be an excellent way for us to gather feedback in a way that was easy for us to parse and implement. Indeed, many points from alpha feedback informed our design decisions during beta production, iteration is after all key to making our games. I look forward to gathering more unique insights from this release.

In a future update we'll talk more about the details of the beta release, but during the lead-up to the beta we will be providing you with new information on what it contains such as profiles of individual locations and discussion of characters and game mechanics. Keep an eye out in coming weeks for updates, starting with today's setting and design details.

Brian Fargo
Your leader inXile



The Unusual Items of the Ninth World
Thomas here.

Numenera is a setting known for its incredibly strange, quirky, and interesting items, which are a perfect fit for Torment. So when I was offered the chance to take ownership of item design, I jumped to it. For most items, I come up with the concept, determine what exactly it should do gameplay-wise, implement them into the game, write descriptions, work with scripters on any custom events that might be required, and coordinate with our art team on the icon, animation, visual, and finally work to layer in any sound effect needs. While a number of items come from level designers or the suggestions of writers, some were directly from backers, and many others I designed from scratch.

For inspiration, I turn primarily to the Numenera Corebook and Technology Compendium, but most importantly I take time out weekly to play Planescape: Torment and pore over that game's item lists. Even to this day, PS:T stands out to me as a game with great itemization due to how memorable even the most mundane of items was, and this is something we hope to recreate in Torment: Tides of Numenera. Of course, I'm also constantly jotting down ideas as I consume science fiction or fantasy novels and films. The Numenera setting has the flexibility to allow for many different types of items, from the organic, to the "magical", to the impossibly high tech, a latitude we are fully exploring in the game.

As a quick refresher: items are split into ordinary items – swords, armor, and things people can craft with a medieval level of technology; and Numenera – remnants of the prior civilizations, technology so advanced as to seem like magic. These numenera are further split into Oddities, Artifacts, or Cyphers.

Oddities have no apparent practical use, but their uniqueness and rarity make them valuable. Examples: A goblet that appears empty even when it has a liquid in it; a synth flower that blooms only in total darkness; a squirming fishlike creature that gibbers constantly in an indecipherable foreign tongue. From a gameplay perspective, most of these exist to be sold to merchants as a source of income, but the Numenera setting allows for us to give them a much more unique and interesting flavor. And some of them can be useful in the right situation.

Artifacts, on the other hand, are numenera objects that do have an use and can typically be held onto permanently. These uses can range from minor boons to major powers. Examples: A cloak made of golden feathers that stiffens to offer protection when struck; a ring that acts as a transdimensional conduit to strike enemies with various damage types; a device that compresses some of an opponent's blood into a projectile which is then sucked out of the target and into the device. These are very rare and valuable, and from a gameplay perspective serve as the equivalent of magic equipment in a more typical fantasy setting.

Cyphers, however, are one of the most unique elements of the item system in Torment. These have no real equivalent in other games, and offer the most interesting design opportunities and challenges. Put simply, Cyphers are one-time-use numenera, somewhat similar to consumable potions, charms and so on in other games. However, Cyphers are also very powerful, and tend to be somewhat unstable as a result, especially when large numbers of them are carried together. Carry a Cypher around by itself and you'll be fine, but if you start taking too many with you, you will run into side-effects that provide negative Fettles (or status effects) on your characters.

As a result, Cyphers are best used quickly, and because they are relatively abundant, you will always be finding new ones throughout the game. By their very nature, Cyphers counter the hoarding instincts that cRPGs have built up over the years. This requires us to communicate the positives and negatives of Cyphers to players, to make sure that that they are interesting enough for players to want to use, and that the density and distribution of Cyphers throughout the game makes players feel like they're getting them at just the right rate. We don't want Cypher limits to feel like an annoyance, but rather to provide a natural flow for the player to experiment with and use them, and keep the progression of items interesting throughout the game.

Cyphers are extremely varied and interesting. A few examples: a detonation device that increases gravity in a confined area, pinning your enemies down; a sentient spike that burrows deeper into any target it hits; a thick red grub that when consumed will greatly enhance your ability to perform certain tasks while inhibiting others; a foam that makes your enemy's armor brittle as glass; a statuette that when pried open releases an entity that is unseen yet provides a tangible presence, healing injuries and alleviating fatigue before phasing into another reality.

As you can probably tell, there is not a lot limiting the nature of Cyphers. They can be consumed to give a passive bonus to a number of skills or stats, such as Might/Speed/Intellect Pools, attack damage, speech skills, armor values versus a variety of damage types, etc. They can be projectiles thrown at enemies or allies for various effects. They can have instant one-time effects or last until the player next rests. They can even be set to trigger themselves when certain conditions are met. They can target one or many characters, or have an area of effect. Their usefulness isn't limited to combat either: though some can only be used in combat, others can be used during exploration and dialog, and some can even be used in both.

From a design perspective, the challenge of crafting numenera is one all too common: it's not hard to have plenty of crazy ideas, but the real work happens in determining what ideas work for this setting and this game. It is important to give each item enough character to stand out while not making them so unique that you create a crowded field of The One True Item. The templates set up by our programmers allow for a very wide variety of interesting items, and our excellent combat designers Jeremy Kopman and Evan Hill can help me with any custom scripting needed.

But the most important step of all happens once the items exist in the game – testing, polish and endless iteration to get them perfect for our backers. The Beta Test won't feature every last item in Sagus Cliffs – we're still working on the game after all – but it will contain a great cross-section of mundane items, Oddities, Artifacts and Cyphers for you to use and experiment with. We look forward to seeing your feedback once you get a chance to try them out.

 

[sstacks]

It's like an unexpected tide...al wave.

(sorry)

 

[Irenaeus II]

I Like the aero boats. They remind me of the underrated Atlantis The Lost Tales game.

 

[tripedal]

Seems like the item design is very combat-oriented. Hopefully there will be cyphers that have special uses outside of combat as well...

 

[ksaun]

His torment novellas are utter boring shit, too, if you want constructive critique.

Still not constructive, but at least this bit is relevant.

The OP seems confused or misinformed, as Adam Heine wrote a single novella for TTON, not multiple novellas.

I'm also not sure "utter boring shit" counts as constructive critique. =)

Also, he's the ultimate cuck for adopting a dozen kids from other daddies - that should tell you about his loser personality. You should also read his blog to get an idea of his self-pitying pathetic attitude. On top of that, he's a SJW retard. His torment novellas are utter boring shit, too, if you want constructive critique. Torment would be better off without his cuckold involvement.

I know it is unwise to feed the trolls, but: I think it would be better to withhold judgment of Adam's value to TTON until after you've played TTON (or at least had someone read some reviews of it to you). Then you'll have plenty of concrete and justified examples to decide that you loathe him so, instead of berating his contributions as a video game designer because he raises foster kids.

 

[Irenaeus II]

I'm also not sure "utter boring shit" counts as constructive critique. =)

You must be new here.

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

Oh hey, you were noticed.

Sadly your noble efforts on this topic back in 2014 never got this sort of widespread attention, moved off to Retardoland before Twitter got involved


http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/rogueys-gonna-roguey.93412/

 

[ksaun]

Your mistake was asking on the inXile forums instead of CMcC Adam Heine ksaun Brother None

Well...

(I'm not ignoring you, Infinitron or Joni, it's just no longer appropriate for me to answer questions of this nature. The other guys you tag also might not feel it's their place to speak to it (perhaps because it's the type of question I would have answered). The silence should not be construed as anything more than that.

I suppose what I can say is that, as a backer of Torment, my expectation is that Brian Mitsoda will be/is contributing to TTON. That's what was stated during the Kickstarter and I have not been told otherwise. I would interpret the absence of his mention to reflect only that his role has not been a major one (which I wouldn't have expected it to be, anyway).))

 

[Infinitron]

Until Chris Keenan finally registers an account here, we may yet have to ask you inappropriate questions.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

So appropriate questions only?

Well then, who has biggest balls in InExile team, and why is it Colin? Its basically male-only team , don't tell me you never got bored and took measurements.

 

[prodigydancer]

Seems like the item design is very combat-oriented. Hopefully there will be cyphers that have special uses outside of combat as well...

I don't have a prooflink at hand but they said there would be non-combat items as well.

Until Chris Keenan finally registers an account here

Something tells me it'll never happen.

 

[Brother None]

Seems like the item design is very combat-oriented. Hopefully there will be cyphers that have special uses outside of combat as well...

I don't have a prooflink at hand but they said there would be non-combat items as well.

The items listed there aren't necessarily combat-only. The statuette can't be used in combat, and the grub is probably more useful out of combat than in. Doing a quick check on my tracker, almost exactly half the cyphers are combat only, the rest are mixed and a few (not too many) have strictly non-combat purposes - including cyphers you interact with through dialog, in classic Torment fashion. Additionally, sometimes a cypher can have additional pre-scripted use in a dialog or environmental situation - those are the ones that come from level design mostly.

 

[throwaway]

The rare BN post in this thread. Hope they become more frequent now.

 

[Bester]

The OP seems confused or misinformed, as Adam Heine wrote a single novella for TTON, not multiple novellas.

I've read his "Gold" novella. I thought he had more of those afterwards, but didn't want to give him a second chance after he called me something or implied something, I don't remember which, but I know I only ever addressed him respectfully. Given the quality of his Gold novella, I didn't think he could afford being a disrespectful dick to one of his few readers, so I lost all interest in his "works" after that.

instead of berating his contributions as a video game designer because he raises foster kids.

I don't mind him raising someone else's bastards. Compare his novella to any novella in Rogues for example. Do you think he could've been in that anthology? (No, of course not.) I know that getting published depends on lots and lots of luck, but let's admit something - his works are mediocre, both in ideas and execution. And this is problematic. You can have somewhat good ideas & characters combined with childish writing and still get published like Maria Snyder for example. Or you can do it the other way around (no ideas, fair execution) and it'll still be acceptable for some, admittedly shallow, people. But to have no good qualities is really bad. When both form and content cut zero ice with the reader, it's what's called "utter boring shit", isn't it? Did you get attached to one of the characters in his novella, did you get surprised by a twist, did you get deeply immersed in the world, did it illicit a single feeling? Probably not.
I sincerely hope you agree with me (although I don't expect you to acknowledge it for obvious reasons), because if this game is going to be good, you must be in possession of a good taste yourself, it's imperative even. I really hope you have good taste (and I have no reason to doubt that you do). Would you mind citing your favorite fantasy novels?

 

[Infinitron]

Oh hey, you were noticed.

Sadly your noble efforts on this topic back in 2014 never got this sort of widespread attention, moved off to Retardoland before Twitter got involved


http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/rogueys-gonna-roguey.93412/

By the by, Roguey happens to be a fan of Adam Heine's novella.

 

[Fry]

Would you mind citing your favorite fantasy novels?

Oh, please. You're comparing Heine to some of the best long-form fantasy writers out there like it's relevant. As far as I'm aware, the Codex's favorite writer/living god/masturbation fantasy Chris Avellone hasn't published anything of note outside of video games, yet no one seems to mind. At least Heine can finish a fucking novella on time as promised.

This is video game writing, homey. It's fair to say that T:ToN has the most notable collection of video game writers ever assembled. Whether their collective work can be corralled into a comprehensible narrative is open to question, but that ultimately doesn't depend much on Adam's individual skill.

 

[Bester]

You're comparing Heine to some of the best long-form fantasy writers out there like it's relevant.

Of course it's relevant. If you know how to write, it doesn't matter what exact medium you write for, it's just a matter of conventions.
Christina Avellona is an accomplished writer, because she wrote something great for a video game, and it's doesn't matter that it wasn't a novel in the slightest. And the same thing applies in the other direction (unfortunately, in this case). A bad novella means the same bad writing will be present in Torment.

 

[Fry]

You're comparing Heine to some of the best long-form fantasy writers out there like it's relevant.

Of course it's relevant. If you know how to write, it doesn't matter what exact medium you write for, it's just a matter of conventions.

It does matter quite a bit, actually. Video games are a collaboration. There's, what, 10 writers on this? Even in your hyperbolic imagination where Heine is "utter shit boring", his work is just a piece of the pie.

Do yourself a favor and STFU until you've at least seen the beta.

 

[Roguey]

Sadly your noble efforts on this topic back in 2014 never got this sort of widespread attention, moved off to Retardoland before Twitter got involved


http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/rogueys-gonna-roguey.93412/

Eh, I flip-flopped on this after I found out that Lesi's millionaire family owns the city in which they live. Adam can indoctrinate all the orphans he wants, the Buranupakorns aren't doing anything for 'em.

 

[Irenaeus II]

His orphans will grow up to form a revolutionary army who will eventually guillotine Lesi. A fitting end imo