Homeworld: Deserts of Kharak - prequel from ex-Relic devs

[Raapys]

Probably, but I think there's a good reason they don't do high detail. With dozens or even hundreds of units on screen at the same time, and often with a big unit variety, explosions, projectiles and other various effects, I think you'd very quickly get massive fps problems if you used lots of high-poly models and high resolution textures on the individual units to show off details. There's also the matter of most RTS games being designed for lower-end hardware in general, since the strategy-fan market segment is, presumably, rather far down when it comes to average GPU power.

 

[ArchAngel]

I will for sure pirate this to play SP. And if the game turns out awesome and MP is fun and good I will buy it to play MP.

 

[Destroid]

I'm not so sure it's quicker to make good 2D though.

3D assets are significantly easier to re-use, both textures and model parts, and animation is much easier as well. And then there's the physics thing that has been mentioned. It might not be essential, but it's expected in this day and age.

Yes, shitty, low-detail, generic 3D that we see in almost every RTS these days. Proper high-level detailing, animation, art will very likely cost a lot more than the 2D counterparts.

SunAge has pretty great sprite graphics, but never really got much traction, I guess because it didn't have much marketing and was really just an old school RTS in a time where such games had gone out of fashion.

Woah! Thanks for bringing this one up, somehow I missed it. Have you played it, any good?

Yeah, but not really enough to form any solid opinions. It was pretty heavy on the CPU for the time so we couldn't play multiplayer well

 

[Trash]

Read up a little about this one and while it looks nice and I'm sure it will be a decent rts it misses something. I really digged the whole 'scavenger that competes with others over valuable alien wrecks' angle they went with before.



Admit it, this is a much more awesome trailer and background than what they came up with later.
Now it just looks like generic sf.

And I say that because they will never ever get close to how awesomely the first Homeworld's backstory was written.

 

[Talby]

Do we know if this uses the shitty RNG and difficulty scaling from Homeworld 2? That's the main thing keeping me from considering a purchase right now. They ruined the HW1 remaster by using the HW2 system, I hope they don't fuck this up by using the same one.

 

[Oesophagus]

Do we know if this uses the shitty RNG and difficulty scaling from Homeworld 2? That's the main thing keeping me from considering a purchase right now. They ruined the HW1 remaster by using the HW2 system, I hope they don't fuck this up by usig the same one.

This is one that I'm interested in as well. Then again I guess formations are out anyway, what with this no longer being in 3d. I hope at least they stick to the projectile system from HW1

 

[DwarvenFood]

A nit pick I suppose but if you wanted a mobile land based carrier you would use a bunch of trucks with different bits on them instead of a gigantic tank.

Or just do what we actually did which was build airfields as you you go.


Talby there are a few carrier based games like you describe: Carrier Command and Hostile Waters. It's kind of a little genre to itself, just not that many games.

Yeah but those trucks wouldn't be able to support air units. And like you aid you would need to build airfields.... on dunes. Aside from that H:S seems to be road trip story like homeworld so building airfield everytime you want to fight isn't really good idea to begin with.

Also mentioned in one of dev logs is that north coalition is from poles where temperatures, sand etc is way lower than on equator. As you progress you will discover new types of filters etc stuff that will give your unitis more air time.

I think main buff here is that all air units are in Carrier protected from sandstorms and so on and they are given way to start on any land.

Honestly i don't see how it is "dumb idea"

Interesting this, land-based Carrier idea - is it like a naval Carrier, with a full airstrip - the thing would have to be pretty flat, which is much easier to achieve on sea than on land, or it will restrict the Carrier a lot in where it could be used as airbase. I guess Kharak is pretty flat and doesn't into Z-axis. More workable idea would be a mobile airstrip fit for heli's and VTOL aircraft - it's size wouldn't have to be extreme and the heli's would be able to deal better with uneven terrain at least.

 

[Volrath]

SunAge has pretty great sprite graphics, but never really got much traction, I guess because it didn't have much marketing and was really just an old school RTS in a time where such games had gone out of fashion.

Is this any good?

Looks fucking awesome...

 

[Perkel]

A nit pick I suppose but if you wanted a mobile land based carrier you would use a bunch of trucks with different bits on them instead of a gigantic tank.

Or just do what we actually did which was build airfields as you you go.


Talby there are a few carrier based games like you describe: Carrier Command and Hostile Waters. It's kind of a little genre to itself, just not that many games.

Yeah but those trucks wouldn't be able to support air units. And like you aid you would need to build airfields.... on dunes. Aside from that H:S seems to be road trip story like homeworld so building airfield everytime you want to fight isn't really good idea to begin with.

Also mentioned in one of dev logs is that north coalition is from poles where temperatures, sand etc is way lower than on equator. As you progress you will discover new types of filters etc stuff that will give your unitis more air time.

I think main buff here is that all air units are in Carrier protected from sandstorms and so on and they are given way to start on any land.

Honestly i don't see how it is "dumb idea"

Interesting this, land-based Carrier idea - is it like a naval Carrier, with a full airstrip - the thing would have to be pretty flat, which is much easier to achieve on sea than on land, or it will restrict the Carrier a lot in where it could be used as airbase. I guess Kharak is pretty flat and doesn't into Z-axis. More workable idea would be a mobile airstrip fit for heli's and VTOL aircraft - it's size wouldn't have to be extreme and the heli's would be able to deal better with uneven terrain at least.

In gameplay video you can see that carrier can only move on flat terrain which is showed via blue on map.

 

[Chef_Hathaway]

Do we know if this uses the shitty RNG and difficulty scaling from Homeworld 2? That's the main thing keeping me from considering a purchase right now. They ruined the HW1 remaster by using the HW2 system, I hope they don't fuck this up by using the same one.

This is one that I'm interested in as well. Then again I guess formations are out anyway, what with this no longer being in 3d. I hope at least they stick to the projectile system from HW1

I pre-ordered it, will post impressions on the 20th, when I get out of class.

 

[Perkel]

New news.

Gearbox dedicated small dev team to fix Homeword 1 problems due to HW2 engine.

On top of indicating that this will indeed be a large update, he also said that "the Homeworld 2 movement code fought us every step of the way but it now bends to our will (because it was ripped out entirely and replaced)."

And some comments from one of the developers who is fixing the remaster:

I really, really hope everyone is happy with what we end up putting out... it has been SO MUCH work, I can't even begin to explain it. Though, it is likely we'll do a 'dev diary' about this last patch and the insane stuff we had to do... it may help other devs looking to do similar work in the future. Thanks for the kind words though, if it wasn't clear, we're still working for the fans - the chance of this just magically making a bank-busting amount of money is zero...

To be honest, I am probably one of the most talkative people out of choice... And others are silent because they choose to be. Sure the PR/Marketing group does what you'd expect (as is their job) - they define the way we want to approach a market/customers and they attempt to do that... and generally they don't want random developers to say something that would cause trouble. I think that is entirely understandable. If you were on a team busting your ass, getting ready to release a project dozens/hundreds of people had spent years of their lives on - and one guy posts something that creates a huge mess... I doubt you'd be happy. So, there's an element of risk with having developers talking.That said, HW:RM is a very small team, the game is out and has a well defined audience, and our marketing group has shown a tremendous amount of trust in letting us talk without really defining boundaries... well, besides the obvious stuff that is just going to cause legal issues, etc.

But hey, I want the fans to see what we've done, love it, and where they think we can do better, tell us. If I chose not to talk here/forums/facebook - it'd be really hard to support Mod groups, do the technical support I've done, or even really understand what to do next.

We're almost a year after release and still working - that more than anything should tell you how Gearbox feels about the property as well as the fans of that property.

I can't go into details for many reasons... but think HW1 meets HW2 with new (better) stuff in the mix... 'stances'... um well, again, that is a bit hard to explain without releasing the patch. Certainly, in most ways that matter, the game can now play/feel like HW1, a bit less like HW2, and with new stuff which is neither, but is WAY BETTER.

As for Fuel - nobody on the dev team wanted it, including the original guys from Relic that did HW1/HW2. It isn't broken, the team overall just broadly didn't think it added to the game, and was a mistake which HW2 fixed. So will we put it back? Not a chance. For the fans that disagree - you have excellent Mod support and the ability to do 'custom ship' commands now that mean you can go live your dream...

It is the same engine. It has new stuff that makes new things possible. In some cases, HW2 changes, but overall, it is largely the same. Behind the scenes the code is VERY different - but we had to rebuild on top of the code the stuff that made HW2 what it is (multi-ship Squadrons maybe the most obvious example). That said, when you want things to feel like/act HW1, they can more than ever before. And again - the changes go beyond either... some of the ways the systems have been created add new layers to old mechanics, stuff everyone who's tried it is very, very positive about. The goal is happy players - finally after months that goal is looking to be a bulls-eye shot

 

[Grotesque]

New news.

Gearbox dedicated small dev team to fix Homeword 1 problems due to HW2 engine.

On top of indicating that this will indeed be a large update, he also said that "the Homeworld 2 movement code fought us every step of the way but it now bends to our will (because it was ripped out entirely and replaced)."

And some comments from one of the developers who is fixing the remaster:

I really, really hope everyone is happy with what we end up putting out... it has been SO MUCH work, I can't even begin to explain it. Though, it is likely we'll do a 'dev diary' about this last patch and the insane stuff we had to do... it may help other devs looking to do similar work in the future. Thanks for the kind words though, if it wasn't clear, we're still working for the fans - the chance of this just magically making a bank-busting amount of money is zero...

To be honest, I am probably one of the most talkative people out of choice... And others are silent because they choose to be. Sure the PR/Marketing group does what you'd expect (as is their job) - they define the way we want to approach a market/customers and they attempt to do that... and generally they don't want random developers to say something that would cause trouble. I think that is entirely understandable. If you were on a team busting your ass, getting ready to release a project dozens/hundreds of people had spent years of their lives on - and one guy posts something that creates a huge mess... I doubt you'd be happy. So, there's an element of risk with having developers talking.That said, HW:RM is a very small team, the game is out and has a well defined audience, and our marketing group has shown a tremendous amount of trust in letting us talk without really defining boundaries... well, besides the obvious stuff that is just going to cause legal issues, etc.

But hey, I want the fans to see what we've done, love it, and where they think we can do better, tell us. If I chose not to talk here/forums/facebook - it'd be really hard to support Mod groups, do the technical support I've done, or even really understand what to do next.

We're almost a year after release and still working - that more than anything should tell you how Gearbox feels about the property as well as the fans of that property.

I can't go into details for many reasons... but think HW1 meets HW2 with new (better) stuff in the mix... 'stances'... um well, again, that is a bit hard to explain without releasing the patch. Certainly, in most ways that matter, the game can now play/feel like HW1, a bit less like HW2, and with new stuff which is neither, but is WAY BETTER.

As for Fuel - nobody on the dev team wanted it, including the original guys from Relic that did HW1/HW2. It isn't broken, the team overall just broadly didn't think it added to the game, and was a mistake which HW2 fixed. So will we put it back? Not a chance. For the fans that disagree - you have excellent Mod support and the ability to do 'custom ship' commands now that mean you can go live your dream...

It is the same engine. It has new stuff that makes new things possible. In some cases, HW2 changes, but overall, it is largely the same. Behind the scenes the code is VERY different - but we had to rebuild on top of the code the stuff that made HW2 what it is (multi-ship Squadrons maybe the most obvious example). That said, when you want things to feel like/act HW1, they can more than ever before. And again - the changes go beyond either... some of the ways the systems have been created add new layers to old mechanics, stuff everyone who's tried it is very, very positive about. The goal is happy players - finally after months that goal is looking to be a bulls-eye shot

Being one who owns a copy of the remastered edition but never played it, what exactly does that means?
What were the problems with Homeworld 1 remastered that will be corrected via this patch?

 

[Perkel]

Being one who owns a copy of the remastered edition but never played it, what exactly does that means?
What were the problems with Homeworld 1 remastered that will be corrected via this patch?

Homeword 1 remastered is basically homeword campaign on HW2 engine.

HW1 did differently combat for most part. It was based on ballistics. So guns actually shoot projectiles that travel and if they hit something they do damage if not they don't.
HW2 was based on %, So ships had % chance of hitting target and there wasn't any projectile based system.

What does that mean ?

In HW1. Agile units could escape fire
In HW2. Agile units can't do that because if they are in line of fire enemy has simply % to hit regardless if unit is moving or not or in formation.

What that does mean for gameplay ?

In HW1 you used different formations for different things. If enemy could concentrate fire on your units then using close formation was stupid. If you set units on evasive they would "wobble" constantly trying to shake off enemy fire and more often than not they would rather dodge than shoot. On other hand if you had slow moving target that didn't have good AA defense then you could set up units in close formation and in agressive mode which means that units would almost constantly fire on target.

All of that stuff is simply not present in HW2

HW1 system wasn't perfect but it was definitely fun to play with. Formation like spheres of small ships around bigger ships were valid way to keep those ships secure as they could work both as defending squad and turrets if it needs to be.

We currently don't know what they plan for HW1 patch but it is hinted that for HW1 remake they throw out old combat system from HW2. Does that mean HW1 system recreated ? They talk they think they fixed combat in HW1.

 

[DeepOcean]

TL;DR: Terrible Ai, very few maps, only two factions, great storyfag campaign.

 

[Visperas]

Which is the best homeworld? The first one? Also, that SunAge does look good, anyone has played it?

 

[Raapys]

HW1 followed by Cataclysm standalone and then HW2. There were some decent changes in HW2, like ship modules, but you already had those in Cataclysm. The other changes were mostly negative. The second game also couldn't really recapture the awesome atomsphere of the first game.

 

[DraQ]

Which is the best homeworld? The first one? Also, that SunAge does look good, anyone has played it?

Do you mean "the best" as in "the best" or as in "The Best Korea"?

Spoiler

Also, <khajiit_mode> can it read? Can it make words? </khajiit_mode>
You know, it's not exactly a topic that hasn't been already discussed to death, buried,
d,
chainsawed, shot with a boomstick and then incinerated to be sure.
Repeatedly.

As for Fuel - nobody on the dev team wanted it, including the original guys from Relic that did HW1/HW2. It isn't broken, the team overall just broadly didn't think it added to the game, and was a mistake which HW2 fixed. So will we put it back? Not a chance. For the fans that disagree - you have excellent Mod support and the ability to do 'custom ship' commands now that mean you can go live your dream...

Umm... swarmers.
As much as I would agree on fuel being mostly superfluous mechanics the way it was balanced, fucking swarmers. How the fuck do you swarmer without fuel mechanics?

 

[Dayyālu]

TL;DR: Terrible Ai, very few maps, only two factions, great storyfag campaign.

God. If I have to trust the other videos and this, it's a baseline stock RTS with HW trappings. Like, fifteen years later, we are doin' a C&C clone. It reminds me weirdly of the C&C that Should Not Be Named.

Dead in two weeks. I like the Gaalsien thing, even if it's lore rape.

Which is the best homeworld? The first one?

HW1 followed by Cataclysm standalone and then HW2. There were some decent changes in HW2, like ship modules, but you already had those in Cataclysm. The other changes were mostly negative. The second game also couldn't really recapture the awesome atomsphere of the first game.

This. Also, someone can reply to this:

Also, that SunAge does look good, anyone has played it?

The news on the Net are few, the Devs are Austrian and the initial release was a disaster. Sure, the graphics are sexy as hell and the dubbing has that cheesy '90 charm, but I'm rather curious, 18 bucks is not cheap for shovelware.

 

[Talby]

If they fix the HW1 remaster to use the original ballistic system and remove difficulty scaling they can have all of my money.

 

[ArchAngel]

I am glad I watched that TB's preview. Now I know I should play the campaign on hard as the game is very easy.

 

[Perkel]

Which is the best homeworld? The first one? Also, that SunAge does look good, anyone has played it?

order of play:
HW1 classik, then HW Cataclysm then HW2 campaign then HW2 skimrish/multi with complex mod

order of fun:
HW1 classik, HWCataclysm, HW2Complex for rest of your life. HW2 capmaign.

 

[Astral Rag]

-5 MP/skirmish maps and about 10 unit types (lol)
-poor performance
-bad AI
-no rebindable hotkeys
-50€

 

[ArchAngel]

-5 MP/skirmish maps and about 10 unit types (lol)
-poor performance
-bad AI
-no rebindable hotkeys
-50€

performance was fixed in latest version, it was only in press release.
Also 13 missions or so.

Still not worth that money.

 

[Chef_Hathaway]

So, my impressions so far:

Game is short/easy so far, even on the highest difficulty, I'm blazing through the missions. I'm a little over halfway through the campaign with only 3 hours played. Story is good so far though.

Sides are fairly different, but have similar functioning units, Northern Coalition (NC) needs to repair its units with support cruisers while Kiith Gaalsien (KG) auto-regens, for example.

LoS and height mechanics make for some fun scenarios, though, as has been mentioned the AI is quite dumb and easy to out-maneuver.

So far it seems okay, though I'm glad I bought it at a discount.

 

[RhodokMasterRaceOfficial]

The only thing I liked about Cata was how it expanded on Kiith politics and the Kushan in general more. The space zombies were fucking stupid and as a result so was most of the campaign's premise. The Beast was dumb enough to make me glad the entire game isn't canon.

And most of the people who made it went on to make SJW Of The Stars iirc.