Eyestabber's in-depth guide to DR/AoD mechanics

[Whisper]

If a dodge build can obtain a shield's defense bonuses, dodge might actually be viable for a solo run.

Can someone check this? Because this can make evasion char viable.

 

[Trash Player]

10 in all physical stats as a solo psycho

Add Perception.

I mean I don't get the option to add perception for some reason.

 

[Whisper]

How people finish game solo on psycho with some weird stats:

http://steamcommunity.com/app/531930/discussions/0/282992646979559271/


6 str, 9 in spears, 123 dodge, 4 crafting.

Ok cheesing with 11 dmg poison on humans may work but critters and constructs?

how? Game is too easy? they use bugs in AI? Lots of reloads?

 

[AndreGAS]

You have low attack skill (since you go for defence) so aimed attacks miss a lot for dagger, but for axe you do Ok dmg with just fast strikes, which are viable (dagger fast attacks are not vs their armor).

No, I need exactly axe build from the very start. Absinthe said, that axes with Str 10 is far more viable, so I asked for exact Str 10 axe build to survive first three ant warriors. They had 40 hp each, they apply -3 hp per turn poison with -5 dodge debuff. Available axe weapon - starting bronze and two-handed pickaxe. They can't be netted or poisoned.

 

[Fenix]

Our beloved Pope Amole II using LOTS of reload, so why not.

 

[Absinthe]

On a side note, I recently discovered that crossbows use strength to determine your crit chance on aimed strikes for head, arms, and legs. Arterial strikes and torso strikes use perception. That's the default for all weapons, but crossbows really shouldn't be using strength.

 

[MediantSamuel]

Great work so far Mr. Eyestabber.

I have a question for you, however.

Livia or Roxana for best waifu?

 

[Absinthe]

Would you, please, share your Str 10 axe build from the very beginning for MP solo run in DR? Maybe, I do smth wrong, because with axe I cannot kill those three 120 hp total ants guarding way to the queen...

It's as trash player says. You go 10 str / 10 dex / 10 con / 4 per / 4 int. Alternatively you can go 10 str / 8 dex / 10 con / 6 per / 4 int. You have 2 fewer AP, but hopefully the improved hit rate (+10 THC) from perception compensates for your lower number of attacks, and with 8 dex you can use heavy armors which synergizes well with block. You could also try 10 str / 8 dex / 8 con / 8 per if you wanted, but that makes you a bit more vulnerable to poisons and you'd lose 4 block rating. With heavy armors you would probably have enough DR combined with a shield to block those attacks down to zero damage where they can't poison you though.

Add Perception.

Just make sure you're not trading strength against perception for hit rating on axes. Every point of strength gives you +3 axe and +3 block, so even if strength did absolutely nothing for your damage, it would still be worth taking strength over a point of perception for axe and hammer builds.

 

[Azael]

Great thread, massive Eyestabber!

Just curious, would you say it's "better" to invest heavily in offense over defense early (or vice versa) over going roughly even? Also, is that weird "full Block, shield bash enemies to death" viable or not? Yes, I am too lazy to experiment before asking.

 

[Goral]

Not sure what's Eyestabber's opinion on this, but IMHO it's better to invest in defence at the start and then offence, depending on your stats. Characters with lower perception and THC should invest 6 points in dodge/block and 5 in weapon (don't remember how many skill points you get but you should invest more SP into defence) but if you have high perception you can invest all your points into dodge/block and only remaining 5 points into weapon (assuming your INT would be at 4).

 

[makiavelli747]

Well, I started with 10/10/4/4/4/8 with 6 daggers 3 dodge, then 8 to 4 and 10 to 5, and did fine.(without a single reload until worms)

 

[Whisper]

Well, I started with 10/10/4/4/4/8 with 6 daggers 3 dodge, then 8 to 4 and 10 to 5, and did fine.(without a single reload until worms)

4 con for solo?

Also how 8 Int works out for you?

Also i am surprised how you managed to kill ants (including tougher ants) with no problem with low hp and evade.

 

[Absinthe]

That's not a solo build. It's a group build with 8 charisma.

4 constitution builds used to be popular back when dodge was a reliable defense. These days you're giving up 12 defense rating by taking the minimum on con, but you can still try a 10/10/4/10/4/2 build if you want. In that case you invest extremely heavily in defenses (block, crafting, maybe alchemy). You will already have +48 hit chance without any weapon skill whatsoever, so you can afford to put minimal investment on it.

Intelligence by the way is generally the last stat you'd want for solo builds. It pays off slowly and you're better off stacking perception and using the skill savings instead. 10 perception instantly gives you as much hit chance as 3 ranks of weapon skill and you'll have a much higher hit chance in the end too. If you ask me Dungeon Rats needs to give +5 starting skill points per rank of intelligence to make 10 int builds attractive.

 

[hivemind]

If you ask me Dungeon Rats needs to give +5 starting skill points per rank of intelligence to make 10 int builds attractive.

It does as of the last patch like 10 hours ago.

 

[Absinthe]

The patch is not on GOG yet.

EDIT: Correction. The patched version is on GOG. There is simply no patch distributed, so you need to download and reinstall the whole game.

 

[Fenix]

Can someone explain how potion of regeneration works?
I mean is there any difference at which alchemy lvl you made it, and how many Constitution you had when drunk it?
It is alwais -8 HP right?

 

[Absinthe]

The max HP loss stays the same in all circumstances, but the difference between 9 alchemy and 10 alchemy is the difference between regenerating 1 hitpoint and 2 hitpoints per turn. Normally you would never make it without 10 alchemy.

 

[AndreGAS]

It is alwais -8 HP right?

Made regen pot with Alc 8, got +1 hp regen, with Const 10 minus 5 hp permanently for 55 max hp total.

 

[Whisper]

Some Vince dude posted post with strange information on Steam forum.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/531930/discussions/0/282992646986841635/


1. "Critical strikes do more damage (20-40% extra damage tied to the size of your weapon)".
Its not extra +50%? And how size matters?

2. "Axes - chance of savage blow (30% more damage)."
25%, no?

3. "Bows - increased chance of Critical Strike."
Isnt it Cripple (2x movement cost)?

4. "Crossbows - chance to stagger your opponent (-3 AP)."

- 4 AP, no?

5. "Shield statistics: DR, Dodge penalty, To-Hit penalty, Versus Critical (vsCritical), Reduce Critical, and Versus Ranged (vsRanged)."

Reduce Critical? What is it?

6. "Versus Ranged - shields provide superior protection against all ranged attacks, but certain weapons, like pila (plural of pilum) and dagger-like armor-piercing bolts (30% chance) can go through shields, completely ignoring them."

All throwing weapons can bypass shields? Or only pilum? What chance? 100%? 30%?
Where he got idea that AP bolts can ignore shields and get 30% at it?

7. "Some weapons have special abilities like ignoring shields vsRange or cutting into the enemy's armor more effectively."

What weapon cut into enemy armor more effectively?

8. "Certain weapons offer special bonuses, such as a bonus to the passive effect of the weapon, a bonus to counter-attack, higher DR penetration (vsDR) or a to-hit bonus."

vsDR is only for frag bombs (i wont call bomb - a weapon in strict words, its alchemical item) or something else?
What weapons give bonus to counter-attack, spears?

 

[Absinthe]

Vince is the maker of the game. Sounds like a new patch. A lot of those mechanics are a bit different from the current version. Just to be clear, crossbow staggers are -3 AP even right now though.

Reduce Critical is probably a stat that reduces your own crit rate. It's essentially another shield penalty. As for pilums and armor-piercing bolts, I think he's reworking their mechanics a bit. And counterattack chance is typically a bonus on 2H weapons. Cutting into armor more effectively is likely to be returned to daggers, since right now daggers are exceptionally bad against armors without aimed strikes and they used to have an ability to deal with that.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Sorry, it was late and I was tired. I copy-pasted the old guide from AoD and tweaked some things but did a pretty crappy job overall.

 

[Jaedar]

Can someone explain how potion of regeneration works?
I mean is there any difference at which alchemy lvl you made it, and how many Constitution you had when drunk it?
It is alwais -8 HP right?

There's no potion of regeneration in DR right?

 

[Fenix]

Wrong!

 

[John Yossarian]

Great guide!! Going to give my hammer build another try with some tweaks, couldn't get past Emperor last time.

 

[Eyestabber]

Sorry about the lack of updates guys, but I'm working on the (probably) hardest part of the guide atm: Daggers and Critical Strike. Lots of formulas, printscreens and calculations to come.