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Zero Combat RPGs

sheek

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I don't know of one ever being made... unless you count stuff that is more adventure game than RPG

So you're the Master Chief lead designer with a large, mainstream development team and you're told by your boss to design a good, interesting, challenging RPG... but that there can be no player-instigated violence in it.

What do you do? What settings? How would you motivate and keep the player's interest? What would you do for rewards (given that 90% of the instant gratification in RPGs comes from slaying enemies)? What kind of interface would you use? Under what angle do you hype it?

Or would you assume your boss has gone completely insane or that he's testing you're gullibility and refuse to comply?
 

JarlFrank

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Hmm, okay. I once had a nice idea for an RPG with only minimal combat. You're playing as some peasant woman, and the story is mostly like a fearytale as you get chosen by some prince to be his wife. But once you reach that position, you also have to deal with political treachery, other women who envy you and want to take your position, and, of course, some decisions in political stuff and so on. Basically, it would become more of a "medieval politics simulator" than RPG, but there would still be stats that determine the outcome of your decisions. You can also do other shit like romancing some of the other men, charming your prince, or having some lesbian adventures. Stuff like that, whatever a princess does that doesn't involve combat.

Such a game seems best for "RPG without combat", as medieval politics require stat-checks too, with all the treachery stuff going on. And it's got choice and consequence at plenty.
I still would include at least minimal amount of combat, like when you decide to duel a noble who insulted you, or something.
 

avatar_58

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Make it like Quest for Glory. The meat of that series isn't combat, it's the Sierra style puzzles and whatnot.

So - cut out combat stats like parry, dodge, etc and leave in everything else. Basically you'd choose a profession like Thief, Wizard (who somehow now cant cast harmful spells) and maybe throw in some other professions now that the "Fighter" is not available.

Instead of killing you'd sneak into places as the thief, or get by using magic spells like invisibilty or whatnot. Leave in the adventure game styled puzzles or else you'll lose a great deal of players.

Also thrown in some dialogue puzzles that work off your character's intelligence.

Seems completely possible to me, although it would work easier if comabt was the only thing disallowed, versus player violence. In other words allow stealth murder, allow you to cast spells like "Freeze" to turn them to ice.
 

DarkSign

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The Sims with some Republic: The Revolution and a business simulation mixed in where the hero's arc is to subjugate or heal a city in the midst of chaos. The gameplay consists of asset management, diplomacy skills, and quests that mark your rise to the top.
 

Andhaira

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There have been rpg's released with no violence and some have been wildly successful:

Harvest Moon (all its iterations) You basically play a farmer, and everything that comes with it.

Princess Maker.

And some others.
 

crufty

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an opening?

1) no combat at all, or only non-player *INSTIGATED* combat?
- meaning if somebody whoops on our your player, they can fight.

If so, how about a game where the player is a high powered good guy, and has a killable maguffin everyone wants--frodo, brittney spears 8 years ago, etc--that cause external factions to want to deal with the PC and get the maguffin. high powered good guy is important starting point because fighting doesn't give the PC any benefits--only reduces PC power as hp/mana/items are expended, and the low-powered mooks don't offer up anything (in the beginning) worthwhile.

end game could be party npcs are powerful, while pc is maimed, battered and low on power, struggling to win fights (and thus trying harder to avoid them).

2. no combat at all...basically becomes an adventure game and not an rpg. rpgs are about choices and eliminating combat is reducing choice by 50%.
 

Norfleet

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I'm not sure Princess Maker lacked violence. I seem to remember committing a great deal of violence in that game. Of course, I tend to be determined to finish games by the most violent means reasonably possible, and can only be dissuaded from violence by greater rewards for non-violence. And sometimes I just like violence, you know, because. I have found a violent path in games that aren't even supposed to have violence.
 

Raapys

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It'd definitely have to do with either politics or business - we like the combat in RPGs because our characters get more and more powerful, etc. In politics or business you can achive the same effect only instead of fighting ability it'll be power/money.
 

cardtrick

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There has to be some kind of gameplay element, I think. Most RPGs use combat for the gameplay, but it's true that there are other basic types of game than fighting: sports, city builders, puzzle games, mystery/adventures, economic trading games (like the Patrician series), space sims (well, they mostly do have combat, but you could strip them down to exploration and trading), etc. I think any one of those genres of game could take the place of combat in an RPG. Of them, I would say the economic trading games and space simulators are probably the best suited, but sports could work quite well (wouldn't have to be modern sports, either; could be ancient Aztec ball games with the losers sacrificed to the gods, or futuristic zero-gravity handball in space, or anything really). I'd probably most like to see an RPG/city builder -- I think that could be a really fun combination.
 

Red Russian

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Republic: The Revolution

What a waste of a fucking engine.

So - cut out combat stats like parry, dodge, etc and leave in everything else. Basically you'd choose a profession like Thief, Wizard (who somehow now cant cast harmful spells) and maybe throw in some other professions now that the "Fighter" is not available.

Now this would be very interesting to see in action. Instead of sneaking about accomplishing your set goals, you'd use magic and all it's tricks that come along with it.
 

Gragt

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Andhaira said:
Princess Maker.

Princess Maker 1 and 2 have an adventure part where you can send your daughter to kill monsters and use those combat skills she learned in school. While optionals, it is there. And there is of course the fighting tournament plus some rivals who might want a fight.

Funny you mention it, with enough charisma, your daughter can talk her way out of some encounters with beasts and monsters. I just can't remember if there were rats.

Starting with Princess Maker 3, the games had no random factor anymore and so no fighting at all. You could do the exact same steps as you did in the previous game and the outcome would be the exact same one, while in PM1&2 you may end with a different "story" and ending.

I heard the last game in the serie restored some randomness and fights but then again my interest dropped a few years ago and simply consider the second one as the best in the serie.
 

Andhaira

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Wow that rat thing is making me famous. :D

Though I prefer the brave diplomat tag.

A diplomat....that is brave.

Anyhow, harvest moon is actually cool. Nice family fun. You can even fall in love and get married in the game. :D
 

Gragt

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I just hated that when you had a lot of cows in the barn, the game slowed to a crawl... had to increase the framerate of the emulator which could in turn make the game run too fast.

While I like Harvest Moon, I just regret the lack of things to do. This game is a nice work simulator and just feel like that in the end.
 

k_bits

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Wasn't there a hostage negotiation one? I seem to recall reading about it on underdogs
 

Callaxes

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There was an old game called Excalibur in which you had to reunite the tribes in England, I haven't played it or heard much about it but I liked the idea, because the gameplay was centered arround unification and not conquest.

I believe an ideal game would be to have a Genghis-Khan like character who unites all the mongol tribes and clans. However the main character's weapon should be the preaching of peace and for that he must allwais avoid wars, violence, injustice, intolerance, persecution or force.
 

Lonely Vazdru

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sheek said:
Or would you assume your boss has gone completely insane or that he's testing you're gullibility and refuse to comply?

That's what I woud think. And I would totally refuse to comply. A RPG without combat seems about as entertaining as a sexless love relation.
 

shihonage

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Lonely Vazdru said:
sheek said:
Or would you assume your boss has gone completely insane or that he's testing you're gullibility and refuse to comply?

That's what I woud think. And I would totally refuse to comply. A RPG without combat seems about as entertaining as a sexless love relation.

I concur. The purpose of games is to let us do exciting things that are not really doable in real life,and killing stuff, blowing up stuff, is a big part of it.

If an RPG gets stripped of much of its excitement and moves closer toward imitating the menial tasks of real life... interest wanes.
 

Longshanks

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crufty said:
an opening?
2. no combat at all...basically becomes an adventure game and not an rpg. rpgs are about choices and eliminating combat is reducing choice by 50%.

Most RPGs seem to get away with focusing almost entirely on combat, and ignoring most every other choice.

I'd definitely like to see an RPG which would be as difficult to complete with combat, as even the choice-heavy RPGs are without it. I find any long combat periods tedious nowadays, and most of my favourite RPGs focus on other aspects.
 

crufty

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Longshanks said:
Most RPGs seem to get away with focusing almost entirely on combat, and ignoring most every other choice.

I agree, very true. Its why I consider jRPGs to be more strategy games.
 
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I'd like to see something like that. Kind of like adventure games, but nonlinear and with character creation. Cardtrick's city-builder idea sounds pretty kickass, too.

I don't have anything against combat in RPG games, but the last such game where it was fun I have played was Fallout 2, unless you consider JA2 one.
 

crufty

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one genre that is completely unexplored is investigative horror / x-files.

Set in modern times, you could construct a city--a real city (say, San Antonio TX). Pick a game system (Delta Green)...professions could be actual professions. education actual high schools / colleges. degrees actual degrees. items actual items

obviously there could be some combat but very limited form (a deviation from delta green to be sure). Character development via sanity points? could work I guess.

But how to keep the plot moving and the suspense up? Extremely difficult, even outside the framework of a computer game. It would all be in the writing, definitely possible. Possession would be the easiest thing to pursue as killing the possessed is killing the innocent (so pcs could be discouraged from doing it).
 

Wyrmlord

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Well, although Torment had combat, all the combat was really just filler content between going to one place to another. It didn't add to the game and was dispensible. The Baatezu in Baator only served to make it a little longer to get to the Pillar Of Skulls, for example.

So, I guess the solution is simply make a game like Torment, but remove the combat.
 

Red Russian

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Zero combat RPGs would definitely be the same as a bonafide adventure game. Which is cool as well.
 

OSK

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Red Russian said:
Zero combat RPGs would definitely be the same as a bonafide adventure game. Which is cool as well.

I disagree. Combat can't be the only difference between the Adventure and RPG genres. Adventure games tend to be linear, have little to no stats/skills and have a heavy focus on puzzles. I can imagine an RPG with little to no combat, choices and consequences and character progression and advancement.
 

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