Review Jerusalem Post: The Witcher reeks of perversion

[Azarkon]

Making it optional does not make it immune to criticism. The way the Witcher did it, in particular, is like having porn in a film and arguing, "well, you could've closed your eyes..."

It's not a mature use of sex, so it's subject to the entire diatribe of it being there for titillation purposes. Indeed, the fact that it's voluntary makes it all the more suspicious as something added in as extra "fan service," since it's obviously not necessary for the story.

 

[Ausir]

A lot in The Witcher is not necessary to the story. It's about choices and consequences. Yes, some of the sexual encounters were unnecessary, but some, with major female characters, were integral to the story (I mean that the option to pursue them was integral to the story).

As I admitted earlier, they did go a little overboard with the number of women you can sleep with. But then again, they are often women who *would* realistically choose to sleep with Geralt in real life/in the reality of the setting.

 

[Azarkon]

That's a fair point, but the collectible card game aspect of it really is just titillation. You can't argue that it's the equivalent of journal entries because it's only given as a reward for sex and, at least in the EU versions, is far more explicit than a journal entry need be.

Note that I'm not saying anything as to whether juvenile titillation should be allowed in a game. Personally, I have no problem with it, but it's a hard sell on the basis of being "mature" or "meaningful."

As for the CnC argument... Heh. Let's put it this way - it's often what choices a developer puts in a game that shows what the game is all about. Count the number of women you can "CnC" with, and then the number of other CnC situations in the game, and you might have an idea of why the Witcher is not exactly the dark, mature game that its fans would claim it is.

 

[RK47]

So what are you talking about really? Are you arguing the The Witcher is guilty of glorifying sex or using sex to sell their games?

 

[Azarkon]

Both are true. Unlike the Jerusalem Post, though, I don't think that those are terrible things and CD Projekt should burn in hell for having low morals. I do think they're rather juvenile, however - like the scenes in Mass Effect, they do nothing but further the stereotype that games appeal to the lower instincts of man. In that respect, I think TW could've dealt with the seedier side of Saprowski's world a bit more tastefully than with a collectible card game that makes Geralt's sexual conquests feel like Pornkemon: gotta fuck'em all.

 

[Ausir]

That's a fair point, but the collectible card game aspect of it really is just titillation. You can't argue that it's the equivalent of journal entries because it's only given as a reward for sex and, at least in the EU versions, is far more explicit than a journal entry need be.

How is it not an equivalent of a journal entry if it appears in your journal after you do something, just like other journal entries do (e.g. after you read a book - gotta collect them all, after you talk to someone, take a quest, etc.)

 

[Azarkon]

How is it not an equivalent of a journal entry if it appears in your journal after you do something, just like other journal entries do (e.g. after you read a book - gotta collect them all, after you talk to someone, take a quest, etc.)

Do the other journal entries have naked women painting as their markers, which you are shown the moment intercourse finishes? Were the other journal entries marketed as a gimmick, as this was? This was from one of the previews given:

"Now for the mature content," [Witcher developer Iwanicki] says. "In the game, you can pick up girls. I'm going to show you where to find one, and you can go to bed with her." Um... OK. We hit the village and quickly find a milkmaid willing to chat. After being impressed with a bouquet of flowers, the maid leads Geralt off the screen to do the deed. In return, I am rewarded a playing card and a painting of the milkmaid topless and pouring a ladle of milk over her bare breasts. "Through the whole game, when you pick up a girl and go to bed with her, you receive a card like this," says Iwanicki. We observe an awkward silence.

Reductivism will not win you any battles in this case, I'm afraid. There is good reason to believe that TW team specifically put this feature in for the purpose of titillation (on some misguided notion that it represents the 'M' in mature, I guess). Not that there's anything wrong with playing to people's sexual fantasies, but it's most definitely not just "another journal entry."

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

Both are true. Unlike the Jerusalem Post, though, I don't think that those are terrible things and CD Projekt should burn in hell for having low morals. I do think they're rather juvenile, however - like the scenes in Mass Effect, they do nothing but further the stereotype that games appeal to the lower instincts of man. In that respect, I think TW could've dealt with the seedier side of Saprowski's world a bit more tastefully than with a collectible card game that makes Geralt's sexual conquests feel like Pornkemon: gotta fuck'em all.

One can discuss taste of course, but if literature can do sex, and movies can do sex, and in fact few of either genre make do without, I wonder why games should avoid it, just to look less juvenile?

 

[Claw]

Because games are for kids, duh.

 

[Ausir]

Reductivism will not win you any battles in this case, I'm afraid. There is good reason to believe that TW team specifically put this feature in for the purpose of titillation (on some misguided notion that it represents the 'M' in mature, I guess). Not that there's anything wrong with playing to people's sexual fantasies, but it's most definitely not just "another journal entry."

The fact that marketing people advertised it as a gimmick doesn't mean that it was actually meant as such by the devs.

 

[Azarkon]

That's not an argument. That's wishful thinking. What evidence is there that the devs did mean it to be "just another journal article," beyond some reducitivst similarities between the two?

 

[bozia2012]

That's not an argument. That's wishful thinking. What evidence is there that the devs did mean it to be "just another journal article," beyond some reducitivst similarities between the two?

Man, get your shit together. Depiction of women nudity is not OK, but depiction of slaying monsters is OK? I believe you're playing only Viva Pinata or Sims. Either 96.6% of games (not counting "casual" games) have too low morals for you or you're a dumbfuck.

In short: either argue about overall low moral level of games or GTFO.

 

[Azarkon]

The preoccupation with violence and violent solutions to every problem is a low and regrettable point of modern gaming. I am fully happy to argue that.

As for whether sex or violence is OK, that's another story altogether. I see gaming, as it is, as a crude, low-brow form of entertainment only occasionally approaching the level of higher aesthetics (ie games like PST). But there's nothing wrong with that. I am not looking for high art when I play a game like NWN 2 or The Witcher, just as I'm not looking for high art when I watch a movie like Cloverfield or Hellboy. Understanding the level of morality and senselessness in which most of the gaming industry resides does not mean that I support censoring the whole lot, or that I do not enjoy the contents. It simply means that I do not buy into the hype that sex, in any of these games, is "sensible" or has "meaning" beyond titillation.

I am not morally outraged. I am simply not morally convinced.

 

[bozia2012]

The preoccupation with violence and violent solutions to every problem is a low and regrettable point of modern gaming. I am fully happy to argue that.

Not much to argue here. Ahhh... modern gamin' - the era after Pong and Centipede...
Ever since that games were getting more and more Hollywood-actiony. Either accept it or just don't play them... What we can argue about is the quality of contemporaries.

EDIT:
Wowzers - it's obvious you don't go searchin' for fishes on a tree.

Also: Games are more complex than other form of media so they can achieve more - but somehow they don't. You can raise the graphics to [insert your favourite painter] level, you can raise the writing to [insert your favourite writer] level and you can do the same with music. And this is only the "skin" of the game. Money - end of story.

 

[Azarkon]

Ah, but you're at the Codex, where every game is compared to the glory that was Fallout...

 

[bozia2012]

Ah, but you're at the Codex, where every game is compared to the glory that was Fallout...

Fallout is a modern game - game-mechanic wise of course. While technical side of graphics is outdated, the art level (music, writing) surpasses that of Oblivion (which I can swear has no textures at all) and other shit modern games. Why not compare?

More about gfx - modern gamer wouldn't notice good graphics even if it would bite his ass. That's why people didn't praise the Witcher's textures, but fapped on Mass Effect face-gen and plastic Disneyworld graphics. Insert other names here, but get the picture.

 

[indigo]

no Jews bashing for last 3 pages Such an opportunity and you're discussing moral aspects again ...

 

[Madman]

yeah, let's be natzi than?

 

[Morbus]

Fully aware of my hypocrisy; I only post this because I hope it makes you guys laugh. I am really a bit messed up. See, bare tits bother me - they're unnatural, after all! That is, to me. When you have some perversion, that perversion seems natural from your perspective, and everything that you don't like seems unnatural and loathsome. At least to me. I should study theology.

You should, seems what you just said means you don't like breasts...

 

[kris]

That's a fair point, but the collectible card game aspect of it really is just titillation.

The card game was just silly.

Otherwise I have nothing against healthy sex options as opposed to the overabundance of violence in RPGs. Still I would hope they could instead focus on more interesting aspects of roleplaying and relations in particular.

 

[mondblut]

I all for sex in games. I prefer xp, sidequests, items and other game-relevant rewards for it. But nice breasts onscreen are always a bonus. Full porn FMV would serve better though, just think of the children! Bwa-haha.

Cards or not, I'd play the "goota catch them all" game anyway, for the sheer pleasure of it. In fact, I only discovered the cards can be reviewed from a journal midway through the act 3.

 

[Annonchinil]

There was a point in chapter one where Adriannah told me that some woman was raped by some guy (forgot the names) yet I had information that made it seem as though she was gang raped by the salemander. Naturally I wanted to inquire into it but the designers felt that giving me an option to have sex with her was much better roleplaying.

But the Codex are a bunch of fucking hypocrits when it comes to the Witcher, lets see.

Sex in Fallout 2: Lame and overdone

Bioware Romances: Pandering to the chocolate milk kiddies who want stupid fap off material.

The Witcher card collecting sex game: Totally mature and realistic, its just like real life! I mean if a guy would bring a girl flowers she would totally fuck him! Right!?

Anyways look at 'Not Another Teen Movie' it has nudity! Therefore it is very mature and is clearly a work of art. As of Now I am going through The Longest Journey and I find sexual content in it feels much more natural than in The Witcher, even if so far I saw no breasts.

 

[bozia2012]

But the Codex are a bunch of fucking hypocrits when it comes to the Witcher, lets see.

Bascially you're saying that that "teh Codex is hippocrates" because we're a bunch of individuals with different tastes - how cool is that?

Or maybe you wanted to show us some inconsistency in posts made by notable witcher-fanboys?

 

[Annonchinil]

Teh Hive Mind. Forgive me that I am not willing to go searching through dozens of back posts to find the exact quotes, but get this "The Codex likes Fallout and PS:T" OMG! Do I have any proof of that or do I need any exact quotes for you to believe me?

Anyways your argument that the Witcher has good graphics is that the textures are good? LoL I guess Halo 3 is one of the best looking games of 07' and Max Payne 2 is even better.

 

[bozia2012]

Teh Hive Mind. Forgive me that I am not willing to go searching through dozens of back posts to find the exact quotes, but get this "The Codex likes Fallout and PS:T" OMG! Do I have any proof of that or do I need any exact quotes for you to believe me?

Codex likes FO and PS:T? Is it an official statement posted on a site? You don't hang around here much...

Anyways your argument that the Witcher has good graphics is that the textures are good? LoL I guess Halo 3 is one of the best looking games of 07' and Max Payne 2 is even better.

No, the textures were only a part of tW's great graphics. I'm not talkin' here about technicalities, but the art direction, the detail etc. Now check out Oblibian's grafix - polished monkey-faced bipeds and Lego brick castles. What game had the best gfx in your opinion?