Community The Age of Incline: RPG Codex's 2012-2016 GOTY Results

[Lurker King]

Are Lone Wolf adventure books RPGs?

AoD is much more traditional than the typical CYOAs: it has stats/skills, lots of combat, filler quests, exploration, etc. So it is off the hook. The real question is whether CYOAs can be considered cRPGs or not. I think that if they only provide choices without investment in skills, they can’t be considered cRPGs; on the other hand, you could argue that if your choices involve some kind of restriction that represents an tacit character building, then they are genuine cRPGs, but if...

 

[Lhynn]

AoD is much more traditional than the typical CYOAs: it has stats/skills, lots of combat, filler quests, exploration, etc.

You are so fucking ignorant its funny.

The real question is whether CYOAs can be considered cRPGs or not. I think that if they only provide choices without investment in skills, they can’t be considered cRPGs; on the other hand, you could argue that if your choices involve some kind of restriction that represents an tacit character building, then they are genuine cRPGs, but if...

Just go ahead and admit you havent played Lone Wolf adventure books you retard.

 

[Sizzle]

Just go ahead and admit you havent played Lone Wolf adventure books you retard.

I'm starting to wonder if he's ever played any game besides AoD

 

[Jasede]

I did play many Lone Wolf books and they have...
1) side-quests (optional)
2) stats and skills (in the form of feats)
3) lots of combat
4) optional exploration to find more loot (and danger)

I will do you one better and tell you it also has
5) long term C&C, sometimes many, many books down the road, depending on what you did many books ago

They didn't have teleportation, though; you had to flip to the right page yourself. I guess it was old-school like that.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[V_K]

I think many here did, it's basically just gamebooks with automated mechanics. Pretty fun too.
Personally I liked them better than Sorcery, but apparently I just didn't get to Sorcery's exciting parts.
And it's certainly way better than that QTE-infested abomination on Steam.

 

[Mareus]

I did play many Lone Wolf books and they have...
1) side-quests (optional)
2) stats and skills (in the form of feats)
3) lots of combat
4) optional exploration to find more loot (and danger)

I will do you one better and tell you it also has
5) long term C&C, sometimes many, many books down the road, depending on what you did many books ago

They didn't have teleportation, though; you had to flip to the right page yourself. I guess it was old-school like that.

https://www.projectaon.org/staff/david/index.php
anyone tried this?

Brings back memories from childhood. Never read any of the Lone Wolf books, but I sure had fun with the Time Machine series. I think I must have read at least 30 of them. Still, this might be fun to read/play during work hours.

PS. Do you mayhap know of a similar thing existing for the Time Machine books?

 

[Sothpaw]

Witcher 3?


I am only just playing Pillars for the first time now and have the benefit of all patches and both expansions. Can't speak on the game at release, but it's really good now.

 

[Sigourn]

Does Blackguards 2 continue the plot of Blackguards? I've read many bad things about the sequel and would only play it if the plot continues, as I can't leave games with an open plot.

 

[aleam iacis]

I did play many Lone Wolf books and they have...
1) side-quests (optional)
2) stats and skills (in the form of feats)
3) lots of combat
4) optional exploration to find more loot (and danger)

I will do you one better and tell you it also has
5) long term C&C, sometimes many, many books down the road, depending on what you did many books ago

They didn't have teleportation, though; you had to flip to the right page yourself. I guess it was old-school like that.

I played all the Lone Wolf books where you play as the titular character and I agree, it certainly felt like an RPG. Stats, skills, I would also point out the items you can get and equip/use, luck heavy combat (not that RPGs need luck heavy combat, but certainly some have it), you even level up! Kinda. By completing quests, like in certain other... RPGs.

 

[Sigourn]

Kind of pointless but I thought I would mention it anyway: at game #96 and above (independent of Average or Bayesian Average) all games have a more positive rating. All games from 97 and below either have a negative rating, or an even rating (but this only happens in three or four games, Undertale being one of them).

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[l3loodAngel]

Pillars of Eternity fans favor...
1. Tyranny
2. Expedition: Conquistador
3. Serpent in the Staglands
Popular favorites: TW3, Shadowrun DF, Expeditions: Conquistador

Color me shocked. Either boring shit or popamole or both.

 

[gaussgunner]

Pillars of Eternity fans favor...
1. Tyranny
2. Expedition: Conquistador
3. Serpent in the Staglands
Popular favorites: TW3, Shadowrun DF, Expeditions: Conquistador

Color me shocked. Either boring shit or popamole or both.

If you think that's funny, consider this game, favored by both AOD and Underrail fans, with more votes and higher ratings than some actual RPGs including Elminage Gothic and both of the (oldschool turnbased iso rpg) Spiderweb games....

(You should probably open this in a private browser window if you don't want Steam to target advertising at you....)

Spoiler

Child of Light - a trash platformer by Ubisoft. http://store.steampowered.com/app/256290/

 

[Sigourn]

I highlighted the games I'm interested in, you can see those here.

Are the ones I didn't highlight great or anything? They are 28 games, but plenty of those are weaboo crap, then another percentage is muh indie pixel art, another fraction is "what the fuck is this" like LISA and Stardew Valley.

Note the ones I did highlight were the ones I'm interested in, and I'm also playing Blackguards 2, Eschalon: Book III, The Dark Eye: Demonicon, and I can't remember if anything else.

 

[Repulsive]

Play AoD

 

[V_K]

Are the ones I didn't highlight great or anything?

Just in case you classified Voidspire Tactics as "weaboo crap" because of its graphics, it's not - it has full party creation, open world exploration and next to no cutscenes (the story is decidedly minimalistic). Highlights include great encounter design, highly interactive environments (inspired by D:OS, apparently) and one of the tightest character systems in ages.

 

[l3loodAngel]

Pillars of Eternity fans favor...
1. Tyranny
2. Expedition: Conquistador
3. Serpent in the Staglands
Popular favorites: TW3, Shadowrun DF, Expeditions: Conquistador

Color me shocked. Either boring shit or popamole or both.

If you think that's funny, consider this game, favored by both AOD and Underrail fans, with more votes and higher ratings than some actual RPGs including Elminage Gothic and both of the (oldschool turnbased iso rpg) Spiderweb games....

(You should probably open this in a private browser window if you don't want Steam to target advertising at you....)

Spoiler

Child of Light - a trash platformer by Ubisoft. http://store.steampowered.com/app/256290/

Well it's not surprising since EVERY fucking list on codex is populated with games that are NOT PRGs. And then we get to pick the best of the list. It's a joke.

 

[Repulsive]

Pillars of Eternity fans favor...
1. Tyranny
2. Expedition: Conquistador
3. Serpent in the Staglands
Popular favorites: TW3, Shadowrun DF, Expeditions: Conquistador

Color me shocked. Either boring shit or popamole or both.

If you think that's funny, consider this game, favored by both AOD and Underrail fans, with more votes and higher ratings than some actual RPGs including Elminage Gothic and both of the (oldschool turnbased iso rpg) Spiderweb games....

(You should probably open this in a private browser window if you don't want Steam to target advertising at you....)

Spoiler

Child of Light - a trash platformer by Ubisoft. http://store.steampowered.com/app/256290/

Well it's not surprising since EVERY fucking list on codex is populated with games that are NOT PRGs. And then we get to pick the best of the list. It's a joke.

Play role game

 

[gaussgunner]

Spoiler

Child of Light - a trash platformer by Ubisoft. http://store.steampowered.com/app/256290/

Well it's not surprising since EVERY fucking list on codex is populated with games that are NOT PRGs. And then we get to pick the best of the list. It's a joke.

Not an RPG? But, but, It has the most important feature of all, turn-based combat! And crafting!!!!111

 

[l3loodAngel]

Spoiler

Child of Light - a trash platformer by Ubisoft. http://store.steampowered.com/app/256290/

Well it's not surprising since EVERY fucking list on codex is populated with games that are NOT PRGs. And then we get to pick the best of the list. It's a joke.

Not an RPG? But, but, It has the most important feature of all, turn-based combat! And crafting!!!!111

So if I will give my cock a name and will start talking to it, will my masturbation count as an RPG?

 

[V_K]

So if I will give my cock a name and will start talking to it, will my masturbation count as an RPG?

Only if there are skillchecks attached to your dialog lines!

 

[TheEntitledOne]

So if I will give my cock a name and will start talking to it, will my masturbation count as an RPG?

Only if there are skillchecks attached to your dialog lines!

And C&C!!!

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

If it doesn't have at least one non-humanoid/irregular non-earth creature then its not an RPG.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

I agree, but that is a problem of non-combat related gameplay in every cRPG. The systems are not complex enough because is too difficult to implement. To be perfectly honest, I think that if the dialogue system were deeper, it would cause even more resentment because “cRPGs is about killing things” superficial mentality.

This is correct, which is why there are so few RPGs without combat. Though combat can be supplementet by any other gamey game mechanic, like card games or city development or whatever. To avoid this issue there has to be some 'dynamic' part. My point wasn't that the problem is completely exclusive to AoD so I think it's safe to say that we agree on this point.

Yes, but that is because these games are so easier and don’t take character building so seriously. Sure, you have a bunch of skills, but the games are designed around combat, the skill checks are less in number, they are fluffy for the most part, etc. Maybe the only way to “fix” AoD is making it less coherent and easy, and maybe this is good gameplay, I don’t know. I think this is an easy way out, and maybe we are just being prejudiced

I don't think that the reason is that they are easier. The reason is that to experience game to the fullest you have to make a hybrid character. These games favour hybrids (diplomat-gunslinger is probably the best Fallout build), AoD favours specialists. If playing a diplomat was easier in Fallout or Arcanum there would also become teleportation, point hoarding titles, only easier. Though you are correct, making the game harder is also a factor that forces player to hoard. Also, please note that in these games a talker will often be pushed into dangerous combat and will have to get out of it, which makes things a bit more interesting. The most talented diplomat in Fallout will have to at least be able to run away.

But nobody denies that skill checks is not a core gameplay of most cRPGs, even though they should. The question is how to make this type of gameplay more active, interactive and less passive. I think that pacific playtroughs are doomed in that regard, unless you implement a very complicated puzzle real life conversation system, but most players would hate this system, because they like action, not puzzles. Or they can enjoy some puzzles, but not as a core feature of gameplay.

I think that the only way to avoid this issue would be to make an RPG with a completely new structure and gameplay. Some sort of social simulator, but with actual plot and challenge. So as a summary I agree that pacifist runs in all RPGs suffer from this, but it hurts AoD more because it's much more focused on pacifist characters. And just because the problem is inherent to the kind of thing AoD is trying to do (make an RPG actually catering to players who don't want to fight) doesn't mean I'm gonna enjoy it more. It's the same for other people who were put-off by AoD. It's not that the game is hard, many people would dislike playing a diplomat even if it was-super easy, they'd just finish the game faster.
Also I disagree with the notion that AoD is hard (at least when we exclude the combat), making a good pacifist and finishing the game isn't honestly that hard, just a bit tedious. The biggest challenge is making a functional hybrid character but I don't think that there's enough content exclusive for those to justify doing it.