Sigourn
uooh afficionado
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2016
- Messages
- 5,623
Recent threads n the Codex display increasingly specific inclinations to create the "perfect" "best RPGs ever" lists. I come to you with a proposal, maybe you will see things as I do. I will argue my points, and hopefully by the end of this post you will agree with me.
Looking over the "best of" lists, we come to the following games:
And the following console games:
- Demon's Souls
- Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne
- Chrono Trigger
- Final Fantasy VI
- Final Fantasy VII
- Final Fantasy IX
- Final Fantasy Tactics
- Vagrant Story
- Xenogears
I've purposely left out the "runner-ups" to the Top 50 list because it's so fucking pointless, and I would argue the current list isn't that great either, but that's another thing.
Now: I have FOUR big problems with this first list, in order of "unforgiveable" to "annoying":
- The games were nominated by users with arbitrary limitations of points. This caused them to say such things as "I won't vote Fallout because others will" and "I will assign all these games 1 point because I do believe all deserve to be on the list", meaning the list clearly loses value because one person may give Fallout 1 point, and another may give a random RPG no one has heard about 5 points. With no point limitation, all votes are equal: at the end of the day, it is the amount of votes that will decide the winner.
- The games are of drastically different genres and thus it is impossible to properly compare them.
- There is an arbitrary distinction between console and PC, arbitrary because there's Dark Souls in #14, when it is essentially the same videogame as its console counterpart.
- Not all of us have played all those games, meaning no list will truly be "perfect".
We simply cannot address the last point, but we can address the first three problems. For this reason, I give you my Sigourn Certified™ Nomination and Voting Procedure:
- For different sub-genres of RPGs, to be decided by the community, we will hold different Nomination threads. In each of those threads, ALL members will be free to nominate as many RPGs for the given category. The OP of the thread will have the job of keeping the OP updated with the nominated games so far.
- Once the nomination period is over, a poll will be held with all the games nominated for that specific category. That poll will consist of ONLY three options: "I enjoyed the game", "I didn't enjoy the game", "I didn't play the game". Because one man's standards are higher than others, we can't be sure if 5/5 means "it is a masterpiece, one in a lifetime experience" or a "it is really good, I have played over 50 masterpieces".
- After the poll is over, each category will have its triumphant RPGs. To showcase the Codex's taste for RPGs, there will be a final, UNIFYING list. This will be as objective as it can be: it will be the "Most played" list. You play games that interest you, so that list will do a good job at showcasing the type of games that the Codex is most interested in, REGARDLESS of whether the games turned out to be great or shit. For quality, we already have the individual categories.
An example of this procedure, using the Dungeon Crawling category:
- User A nominates Wizardry, Wizardry II, Wizardry III, Wizardry V, Stranger of Sword City.
- User B nominates Shin Megami Tensei, Shin Megami Tensei II, and Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne.
- User C nominates Dungeon Master, Chaos Strikes Back, and Ultima Underworld.
All of those games will make it to a final poll, where every single user that has over 100 posts in the Codex will be able to vote on the ones that he liked, and on the ones that he didn't like. Maybe the Wizardry fan played Dungeon Master but didn't like it, or maybe he actually did like it, but never bothered to nominate it. The purpose of this list is to poll as many "I consider this to be a GREAT *insert category*", as opposed to a "Let me nominate every single fucking game I've ever played".
This way, if someone has played an obscure game, we allow others who didn't nominate it but HAVE played it to voice their opinion on it. Again, majority is everything in this proposal of mine: if a thousand Codexers played a certain game and enjoyed it, it is worth a try.
By keeping games separated by categories, it is easier for games such as Disciples of Steel to be rated: it is much more common for your tactical RPG-interested Codexer to have played that game and thus give it a chance to prove its worth, than listing it in a "best of all time" nomination.
I hope we can have a civil discussion.
Looking over the "best of" lists, we come to the following games:
And the following console games:
- Demon's Souls
- Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne
- Chrono Trigger
- Final Fantasy VI
- Final Fantasy VII
- Final Fantasy IX
- Final Fantasy Tactics
- Vagrant Story
- Xenogears
I've purposely left out the "runner-ups" to the Top 50 list because it's so fucking pointless, and I would argue the current list isn't that great either, but that's another thing.
Now: I have FOUR big problems with this first list, in order of "unforgiveable" to "annoying":
- The games were nominated by users with arbitrary limitations of points. This caused them to say such things as "I won't vote Fallout because others will" and "I will assign all these games 1 point because I do believe all deserve to be on the list", meaning the list clearly loses value because one person may give Fallout 1 point, and another may give a random RPG no one has heard about 5 points. With no point limitation, all votes are equal: at the end of the day, it is the amount of votes that will decide the winner.
- The games are of drastically different genres and thus it is impossible to properly compare them.
- There is an arbitrary distinction between console and PC, arbitrary because there's Dark Souls in #14, when it is essentially the same videogame as its console counterpart.
- Not all of us have played all those games, meaning no list will truly be "perfect".
We simply cannot address the last point, but we can address the first three problems. For this reason, I give you my Sigourn Certified™ Nomination and Voting Procedure:
- For different sub-genres of RPGs, to be decided by the community, we will hold different Nomination threads. In each of those threads, ALL members will be free to nominate as many RPGs for the given category. The OP of the thread will have the job of keeping the OP updated with the nominated games so far.
- Once the nomination period is over, a poll will be held with all the games nominated for that specific category. That poll will consist of ONLY three options: "I enjoyed the game", "I didn't enjoy the game", "I didn't play the game". Because one man's standards are higher than others, we can't be sure if 5/5 means "it is a masterpiece, one in a lifetime experience" or a "it is really good, I have played over 50 masterpieces".
- After the poll is over, each category will have its triumphant RPGs. To showcase the Codex's taste for RPGs, there will be a final, UNIFYING list. This will be as objective as it can be: it will be the "Most played" list. You play games that interest you, so that list will do a good job at showcasing the type of games that the Codex is most interested in, REGARDLESS of whether the games turned out to be great or shit. For quality, we already have the individual categories.
An example of this procedure, using the Dungeon Crawling category:
- User A nominates Wizardry, Wizardry II, Wizardry III, Wizardry V, Stranger of Sword City.
- User B nominates Shin Megami Tensei, Shin Megami Tensei II, and Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne.
- User C nominates Dungeon Master, Chaos Strikes Back, and Ultima Underworld.
All of those games will make it to a final poll, where every single user that has over 100 posts in the Codex will be able to vote on the ones that he liked, and on the ones that he didn't like. Maybe the Wizardry fan played Dungeon Master but didn't like it, or maybe he actually did like it, but never bothered to nominate it. The purpose of this list is to poll as many "I consider this to be a GREAT *insert category*", as opposed to a "Let me nominate every single fucking game I've ever played".
This way, if someone has played an obscure game, we allow others who didn't nominate it but HAVE played it to voice their opinion on it. Again, majority is everything in this proposal of mine: if a thousand Codexers played a certain game and enjoyed it, it is worth a try.
By keeping games separated by categories, it is easier for games such as Disciples of Steel to be rated: it is much more common for your tactical RPG-interested Codexer to have played that game and thus give it a chance to prove its worth, than listing it in a "best of all time" nomination.
I hope we can have a civil discussion.