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Codex Top RPGs: A Discussion & Proposal

Would you want a voting divided by categories?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 5 25.0%
  • No, I want another type of voting.

    Votes: 1 5.0%
  • No, I'm tired of these stupid votings.

    Votes: 14 70.0%

  • Total voters
    20

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,623
Recent threads n the Codex display increasingly specific inclinations to create the "perfect" "best RPGs ever" lists. I come to you with a proposal, maybe you will see things as I do. I will argue my points, and hopefully by the end of this post you will agree with me.

Looking over the "best of" lists, we come to the following games:

KB55UGC.jpg

15468.jpg


And the following console games:

- Demon's Souls
- Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne
- Chrono Trigger
- Final Fantasy VI
- Final Fantasy VII
- Final Fantasy IX
- Final Fantasy Tactics
- Vagrant Story
- Xenogears

I've purposely left out the "runner-ups" to the Top 50 list because it's so fucking pointless, and I would argue the current list isn't that great either, but that's another thing.

Now: I have FOUR big problems with this first list, in order of "unforgiveable" to "annoying":

- The games were nominated by users with arbitrary limitations of points. This caused them to say such things as "I won't vote Fallout because others will" and "I will assign all these games 1 point because I do believe all deserve to be on the list", meaning the list clearly loses value because one person may give Fallout 1 point, and another may give a random RPG no one has heard about 5 points. With no point limitation, all votes are equal: at the end of the day, it is the amount of votes that will decide the winner.
- The games are of drastically different genres and thus it is impossible to properly compare them.
- There is an arbitrary distinction between console and PC, arbitrary because there's Dark Souls in #14, when it is essentially the same videogame as its console counterpart.
- Not all of us have played all those games, meaning no list will truly be "perfect".

We simply cannot address the last point, but we can address the first three problems. For this reason, I give you my Sigourn Certified™ Nomination and Voting Procedure:

- For different sub-genres of RPGs, to be decided by the community, we will hold different Nomination threads. In each of those threads, ALL members will be free to nominate as many RPGs for the given category. The OP of the thread will have the job of keeping the OP updated with the nominated games so far.
- Once the nomination period is over, a poll will be held with all the games nominated for that specific category. That poll will consist of ONLY three options: "I enjoyed the game", "I didn't enjoy the game", "I didn't play the game". Because one man's standards are higher than others, we can't be sure if 5/5 means "it is a masterpiece, one in a lifetime experience" or a "it is really good, I have played over 50 masterpieces".
- After the poll is over, each category will have its triumphant RPGs. To showcase the Codex's taste for RPGs, there will be a final, UNIFYING list. This will be as objective as it can be: it will be the "Most played" list. You play games that interest you, so that list will do a good job at showcasing the type of games that the Codex is most interested in, REGARDLESS of whether the games turned out to be great or shit. For quality, we already have the individual categories.

An example of this procedure, using the Dungeon Crawling category:

- User A nominates Wizardry, Wizardry II, Wizardry III, Wizardry V, Stranger of Sword City.
- User B nominates Shin Megami Tensei, Shin Megami Tensei II, and Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne.
- User C nominates Dungeon Master, Chaos Strikes Back, and Ultima Underworld.

All of those games will make it to a final poll, where every single user that has over 100 posts in the Codex will be able to vote on the ones that he liked, and on the ones that he didn't like. Maybe the Wizardry fan played Dungeon Master but didn't like it, or maybe he actually did like it, but never bothered to nominate it. The purpose of this list is to poll as many "I consider this to be a GREAT *insert category*", as opposed to a "Let me nominate every single fucking game I've ever played".

This way, if someone has played an obscure game, we allow others who didn't nominate it but HAVE played it to voice their opinion on it. Again, majority is everything in this proposal of mine: if a thousand Codexers played a certain game and enjoyed it, it is worth a try.

By keeping games separated by categories, it is easier for games such as Disciples of Steel to be rated: it is much more common for your tactical RPG-interested Codexer to have played that game and thus give it a chance to prove its worth, than listing it in a "best of all time" nomination.

I hope we can have a civil discussion.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Your points are fine but I don't igve a shit about the list and we've wasted enough time making one list and ffs how many lists do we need and who really cares
 

Fenris 2.0

Augur
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Messages
181
Location
Franconia
I don't think the Poll should be split into sub categories. Give 1 to 5 Points:

1 Point: Crap
2 Points: Has some Qualities, not a total Waste of Time
3 Points: Good Game, had fun.
4 Points: Great Game for me.
5 Points: Masterwork; I recommend this Game to anyone with half a brain.

And then trust to the responsibility of the Codexers. Ok, forget it...
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,623
Well, it seems the Codex has pretty much spoken. A shame, as how knows how many obscure and great games could have popped up in these lists...

:negative:
 

octavius

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
19,182
Location
Bjørgvin
Why not just make a poll of a CRPG category, instead of all this endless talk about polls, and even worse: endless polls about polls? People are just polled up (I assume. I haven't made a poll about it).
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,623
Why not just make a poll of a CRPG category, instead of all this endless talk about polls, and even worse: endless polls about polls? People are just polled up (I assume. I haven't made a poll about it).

What do you mean by "poll of a cRPG category"? I first wanted to know if people were okay with this idea before starting to make different nomination threads.
 

octavius

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
19,182
Location
Bjørgvin
Why not just make a poll of a CRPG category, instead of all this endless talk about polls, and even worse: endless polls about polls? People are just polled up (I assume. I haven't made a poll about it).

What do you mean by "poll of a cRPG category"? I first wanted to know if people were okay with this idea before starting to make different nomination threads.

I mean just do it! This endless prattle just tires people out.
You don't need a permission.
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,623
I mean just do it! This endless prattle just tires people out.
You don't need a permission.

Umm, well, mind helping me out with categories, given you are pretty knowledgeable on RPGs? I wanted to have people knowledgeable of the genre to know when a game fits the category and when a game doesn't. I guess otherwise I'll just start with the easiest one to poll, "Roguelikes", and see if it gains traction.
 

Keldryn

Arcane
Joined
Feb 25, 2005
Messages
1,053
Location
Vancouver, Canada
What's the point in splitting the list into different sub-genres and then putting Ultima Underworld in the same category as Wizardry I through V?

I say first we need to vote on what categories to have, then we vote on which category each game belongs to. Then we vote to see if everyone agrees that we got it right.

:P
 

Severian Silk

Guest
Let's vote whether we should make such a proposal first.
 

octavius

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
19,182
Location
Bjørgvin
Umm, well, mind helping me out with categories, given you are pretty knowledgeable on RPGs? I wanted to have people knowledgeable of the genre to know when a game fits the category and when a game doesn't. I guess otherwise I'll just start with the easiest one to poll, "Roguelikes", and see if it gains traction.

Problem is that too many cRPGs are too difficult to categorize.
The easy categories are:
Rogue-likes
Real Time Blobbers
Turn Based Blobbers

But from there?
Do you categorize by single character vs party?
Story driven vs combat heavy?
Or by how old they are? Like DOS era vs Windows era?

And is effort worth it in the end?
Maybe just make polls for the easy categories?
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,623
Umm, well, mind helping me out with categories, given you are pretty knowledgeable on RPGs? I wanted to have people knowledgeable of the genre to know when a game fits the category and when a game doesn't. I guess otherwise I'll just start with the easiest one to poll, "Roguelikes", and see if it gains traction.

Problem is that too many cRPGs are too difficult to categorize.
The easy categories are:
Rogue-likes
Real Time Blobbers
Turn Based Blobbers

But from there?
Do you categorize by single character vs party?
Story driven vs combat heavy?
Or by how old they are? Like DOS era vs Windows era?

And is effort worth it in the end?
Maybe just make polls for the easy categories?

I decided any game can be nominated for multiple categories. It's the safest and also the most logical way: just because a game belongs to multiple sub-genres doesn't mean it can't do many of them very well.
 

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