What would an "innovative" RPG look like?

[Jaime Lannister]

There was a thread on the IT forums where someone asked if AoD was going to be "innovative" and Vault Dweller said no, but that older games were more innovative than today's.

I feel like I have to mention Section 8's very innovative game, Synaesthesia. He's including stat-based character emotions and personalities, which sounds very cool, even though it might require a bit too much micromanagement to be fun.

And innovation, in the last decade, has meant "more accessible to non-RPG gamers". The RPG niche is small, so developers reach out to the FPS and RTS communities for players.

I think that an RPG that wanted to sell well without being cross-genre would have to be innovative. We haven't had an RPG that advances the genre for a long time, so one that did would be quickly gobbled up.

1. READ THIS CAUSE I THINK ITS COOL Non-linear NPC reactions. Instead of having "good guy" and "asshole" PC lines that are only cosmetic, make it so that if you give, say, a grifter NPC enough asshole responses he'll ask for help with a scam and if you are a "good guy" he'll lure you into a scam. Basically, make flavor text meaningful. Everyone who plays it will love it.

2. The ability to join the "big bad" guys. Seriously, if I'm a feared evil sorcerer, why does the big bad guy invite other evil sorcerers into his ranks but not me? It would allow good diplomats to infiltrate the enemy and kill the bad guy that way.

3. Truth and lies that actually mean something, unlike in PST where it just made you more lawful or chaotic. Certain NPCs should be better than others at catching you in a lie, and, this goes with #1, if an NPC trusts you enough he should believe you no matter what.

 

[Wyrmlord]

Perhaps this has already been done, but what about the ability to take advantage of the environment during combat?

Like in Company Of Heroes, you could position your infantry behind a car, to give them cover. If they blew up a tank, they could use even that as a cover.

Also, skills could determine how fast you move on a certain terain. Maybe you could run quickly through water, and then enemies following you will be slowed down while wading through it, and then you could fire on them while they move.

 

[Jaime Lannister]

Perhaps this has already been done, but what about the ability to take advantage of the environment during combat?

Like in Company Of Heroes, you could position your infantry behind a car, to give them cover. If they blew up a tank, they could use even that as a cover.

Also, skills could determine how fast you move on a certain terain. Maybe you could run quickly through water, and then enemies following you will be slowed down while wading through it, and then you could fire on them while they move.

I think this system has only been implemented in CoH and Dawn of War. Are you thinking of a real-time or turn-based system?

 

[Wyrmlord]

It could work in both, I think. The whole idea was that the environment play a bigger role in combat.

I also think that instead of making trees merely visual props, maybe using a fire spell on them could burn them and have them fall on enemies.

 

[SmokedWolf]

The ability to fail and still play a meaningful game.

 

[MetalCraze]

I want a RPG in a noir setting.
you can do so many things with it even if you will take the noir cliche aka the cool detective, who gets beaten quite often though.

 

[mjorkerina]

3. Truth and lies that actually mean something, unlike in PST where it just made you more lawful or chaotic. Certain NPCs should be better than others at catching you in a lie, and, this goes with #1, if an NPC trusts you enough he should believe you no matter what.

D&D in pen and paper already has skills to support that kind of gameplay, it's just that d&d based cRPGs either don't implement them or butcher them. Bluff, Sense Motive, Gather Information, Disguise, Forgery, the extreme lot of Knowledge skills and so on.

There is a definitive lack of magic used in social manipulation contexts too. Game developers use it mostly to kill stuff.

 

[Wyrmlord]

I want a RPG in a noir setting.
you can do so many things with it even if you will take the noir cliche aka the cool detective, who gets beaten quite often though.

Yay, so I am not the only one who wanted to see such a game.

It should also be in black-and-white.

 

[NiM82]

I want a RPG in a noir setting.
you can do so many things with it even if you will take the noir cliche aka the cool detective, who gets beaten quite often though.

Grim Fandago RPG! (fap, fap, fap)

 

[crakkie]

More simulation in the world. No physics or neat-o AI, but simulations of behaviors beyond stat-checks and quest-flag-checks. These simulation systems would pit you in a "battle" against your objective, with decision and tactics for each. Put systems in place for all common abilities and make them applicable for any sensible game object. Things like thievery, jumping/climbing/swimming, persuasion, assassination (as an action separate from opposed combat), hacking, whatever.

A game that presented tactical choice, stat, & item based play in more situations than combat would be pretty innovative to me. (sorry for repeating myself from ITS)

 

[JarlFrank]

An "innovative" feature I've thought out quite some time ago: Use lots of text. Yes, text. For immersion. I don't know why this hasn't been done to a greater extent before.

What I mean is, showing the player your character's feelings and certain things in the environment by text. Smell. Wind. How the ground under your feet feels. The weather [is it wet, dry, cold, warm?]. Things like that. It would be awesome.

Example:
You come across a rotten corpse.
Text: "You see a rotten corpse near a treestump. The stench of death and decay crawls into your nose, giving you a slightly sick feeling. That thing must've been lying there for months already. The flesh is mostly decomposed, and the equipment on the dead body looks rather old and used."

This gives a hell lot of more immersion, and more information on the surroundings. Also, if your character has a good spotting skill, he could see more than you, as a player, could. For example a small lever on the wall which you can't seem to make out with your eyes on the screen, but your character sees it clearly. Text is a good way of showing you what your character sees/hears/feels/smells. And this would also make skills like listen and spot useful, as you won't have to pixel-hunt anymore if your character sees the item and the text points you towards it.

 

[Brother None]

An "innovative" feature I've thought out quite some time ago: Use lots of text. Yes, text. For immersion. I don't know why this hasn't been done to a greater extent before.

What I mean is, showing the player your character's feelings and certain things in the environment by text. Smell. Wind. How the ground under your feet feels. The weather [is it wet, dry, cold, warm?]. Things like that. It would be awesome.

Eh? Avernum and other Spiderweb games already do this.

 

[JarlFrank]

Hmm, never played the Spiderweb games, the ugly graphics put me off... I can stand old graphics, even the sketchy ones of the first Ultima, but... Spiderweb games just hurt my eyes.

 

[Jaime Lannister]

3. Truth and lies that actually mean something, unlike in PST where it just made you more lawful or chaotic. Certain NPCs should be better than others at catching you in a lie, and, this goes with #1, if an NPC trusts you enough he should believe you no matter what.

D&D in pen and paper already has skills to support that kind of gameplay, it's just that d&d based cRPGs either don't implement them or butcher them. Bluff, Sense Motive, Gather Information, Disguise, Forgery, the extreme lot of Knowledge skills and so on.

There is a definitive lack of magic used in social manipulation contexts too. Game developers use it mostly to kill stuff.

Google the twenty-sided blog and read his D&D campaign. He has evil priest enemies that capture the players and cast a "circle of truth" to prevent them from lying. That's really good DMing, and something cRPG writers, who are effectively the DMs of the cRPGs, should look into.

 

[Wyrmlord]

Hmm, never played the Spiderweb games, the ugly graphics put me off... I can stand old graphics, even the sketchy ones of the first Ultima, but... Spiderweb games just hurt my eyes.

I personally thought the problem was more with too much of the interface on the screen at once. The potraits were much larger than they should be, and occupy much of the left-side of the screen, all the battle disciplines, spell books,.etc are displayed below, and the right side has the journal, resting, main menu,.etc icons. And yet, the most important part of the screen, the game's world, is marginalized onto a much smaller part of the screen.

That's what hurt my eyes, when I played Avernum. The game's world should be shown fully and clearly, because that's what the player is going to be working with 99% of the time. NWN2 did it much better, because all that stuff is accessed from a single icon on the bottom left part of the screen.

 

[Krancor]

Hmm, never played the Spiderweb games, the ugly graphics put me off... I can stand old graphics, even the sketchy ones of the first Ultima, but... Spiderweb games just hurt my eyes.

I personally thought the problem was more with too much of the interface on the screen at once. The potraits were much larger than they should be, and occupy much of the left-side of the screen, all the battle disciplines, spell books,.etc are displayed below, and the right side has the journal, resting, main menu,.etc icons. And yet, the most important part of the screen, the game's world, is marginalized onto a much smaller part of the screen.

That's what hurt my eyes, when I played Avernum. The game's world should be shown fully and clearly, because that's what the player is going to be working with 99% of the time. NWN2 did it much better, because all that stuff is accessed from a single icon on the bottom left part of the screen.

Even spiderweb games are better than the NWN2 interface. What you described as a good thing is one of the worst design flaws an interface can have,

 

[denizsi]

I guess it's the ultimate programming and design barrier to make a toggle to have the interface work either ways.

 

[Demnogonis Saastuttaja]

I just have to say that Jagged Alliance 2 has felt the most innovative game I have played in ages and to wonder why many of it's cool features haven't been copied anywhere.

 

[deuxhero]

I just have to say that Jagged Alliance 2 has felt the most innovative game I have played in ages and to wonder why many of it's cool features haven't been copied anywhere.

Why do you have to ask? It is because they aren't immersive or pretty..

 

[BrainSquirmingLikeAToad]

hello world

 

[Texas Red]

We haven't had an RPG that advances the genre for a long time, so one that did would be quickly gobbled up.

FAIL.

The Witcher has many innovative aspects and by all accounts is doing well on the market. Consider how you play a protagonist of fantasy novels and while you can't change his opinion on some matters due to his inherit personality, you can still decide his stance on other, more global issues. Characters are from the book as well and unlike other RPGs, they play with you(while not belonging to your party) through the whole game and are predefined as your friends and lovers.

There are other elements that make TW unique while still keeping it in the RPG frame. Just compare it to MotB, a definition of traditional(but good) roleplaying, for fuck's sake.

 

[JarlFrank]

There are other elements that make TW unique while still keeping it in the RPG frame.

Unique alchemy system, a map compass that is optional and a lot less retarded than Oblivion's, a good journal, books are actually worth something [you will spend a lot of money on books just so your character can get the information out of it. That's right, your character, not *you*.], combat is fun and innovative too...

Indeed, an innovative RPG that manages to be a lot of fun.

 

[Squeek]

The next big innovation ought to be a way for single-player RPGs to be created and sold in a variety of versions and combinations of versions that would match choices players would make in the beginning and throughout the game.

Players have sort of been doing something like that already by way of player-made mods. But there's not much intrigue in that, really.

RPG lends itself to variety, and since developers have become reluctant to provide that, the onus has been almost exclusively on players to experiment with that up until now. But players can only do so much. I'm imagining single-player game worlds with incessant development, subscription access, and narrative spanning over decades that the player can jump into at any place and at any point.

Crazy, I know. But that's the kind of innovation I'd like to see.

 

[Jaime Lannister]

The Witcher didn't really innovate when it comes to dialog and combat though. Combat was just a timing based action system while dialog was dumbed down since a lot of choices were made for you. The alchemy and journal were amazing, but I wouldn't say the Witcher advanced the genre.

 

[Crazy Tuvok]

Why do you have to ask? It is because they aren't immersive or pretty..

Either you have never played JA2, you are trolling, you are a monumental dumbass or you don't know what "imnmersive" means but you've heard people mention that it is important so you thought you should use the word more and complain that "game x is not immersive". I'll take the sampler platter.

JA2 did so many things right I too am surprised that others haven't picked them up. Fuck, even the post combat looting in that game is still unsurpassed to this day. And that is the *very least* of what the game does brilliantly.

Like ToEE, there is an engine that is just crying out to be used in a full blown RPG and not just a tactical combat crawl (tho both games were/are superb).