Game News Tim Cain is dead

[Lurkar]

I'll give Pete this - every time I think the bar can't go any lower, he proves me wrong. That man has a talent.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Cain may not be dead but Fallout has been made an orphan, and it's been left with the really creepy uncles that are dressing it up in flashy clothing and hooking it out onto X-Box Avenue.

 

[Ahzaruuk]

...I seem to be the only one who needs to ask "Who is Tim Cain?"

 

[dagorkan]

Hey Assrook, long time no see

 

[Lurkar]

And it is pretty clear that Pete is aware of it :

Eurogamer: You're driven by love. Do you think that's something the very hardcore Fallout fans miss?

Pete Hines: I don't know whether they miss it or not - it may be that they don't care and think, "that's all well and good, but you're not the ones we wanted to make this". I don't pretend to know exactly what their motivations and thought processes are. Those guys are very enthusiastic - we're talking about the very hardest of the hardcore Fallout fan. They're very passionate about this thing and protective about it. And that's okay.

Seems he's a nicer guy than I am. He calls you "passionate and protective". I'd just call you straight out nutjobs. :p

That quote sounds oddly familiar...

Adolf Hitler: I don't know whether they miss it or not - it may be that they don't care and think, "that's all well and good, but you're not the ones we wanted to run this division". I don't pretend to know exactly what their motivations and thought processes are. Those guys are very enthusiastic - we're talking about the most motivated of the German peacekeeping forces and international tolerance groups. They're very passionate about this thing and protective about it. And that's okay.

 

[JoeDirt]

NN needs his weasel tag back

 

[Naked Ninja]

As for taking the usual Codex cynicism, which newsposters apply to *everything* (except games they really like), I find it odd that you'd overreact to it like you do. You're used to it by now, I'd assume.

Oh I am. And it's not over reaction. If you measure up the percentage of derisive newsposts and forum topics about Pete Hines you will find my response quite proportional.

And my point wasn't that I'm annoyed or upset by this tomfoolery. My point was that this behavior is why people dismiss hardcore fallout fans. The minute you go down this path people automatically dump you in the "lunatic fringe" category, for good reason. If you're happy to be there, cool, there are plenty of other nuts to keep you company. But combine it with the constant calls of "They don't listen to the real fans!!!" and I just have to shake my head. Of course no one listens, if you're going to go this overboard all the time.

Well, not to odd-ball, but since both Lucas and Cain made a game with a company behind it, what was the point of your statement that "Tim Cain didn't make the game by himself"? That's true for both cases, so in the analogy Lucas = Cain, not Lucas = company.

I ain't playing that game. I believe you to be an intelligent person, even if some form of rabid madness seems to grip you in relation to Fallout, so I believe you know exactly what my point was. I deny your attempt to odd-ball.

NN needs his weasel tag back

Oh no, playground nickname time again? Heavens, whatever shall I do?

 

[elander_]

But combine it with the constant calls of "They don't listen to the real fans!!!" and I just have to shake my head. Of course no one listens, if you're going to go this overboard all the time.

In the last couple of threads about Fallout i don't remember anyone ever saying something like you have quoted literally or implicitly. Maybe some nobe poster said something similar but now we think we are the real fans because someone possibly used that line? If you want to do people a favor then stop bullshitting.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Well, not to odd-ball, but since both Lucas and Cain made a game with a company behind it, what was the point of your statement that "Tim Cain didn't make the game by himself"? That's true for both cases, so in the analogy Lucas = Cain, not Lucas = company.

I ain't playing that game. I believe you to be an intelligent person, even if some form of rabid madness seems to grip you in relation to Fallout, so I believe you know exactly what my point was. I deny your attempt to odd-ball.

Kharn is right though. Pete Hines clearly says if "George Lucas was dead". Not if ILM was dead or anything like that, only George Lucas. The only comparison is to Tim Cain's death or the death of any of the Fallout creators for that matter. Given none of them are dead, it seems like an odd analogy. And officially, Interplay aren't dead either given they're supposedly making a Fallout MMO.

So we really have a situation were it's like, if George Lucas was still alive but he never owned the rights to Star Wars in the first place and so they were owned by 20th Century Fox and 20th Century Fox royally screwed the pooch so much that they were forced to sell them but then instead of selling them back to George Lucas (who incidentally, did make an offer), they went to someone else. So a more appropriate analogy would be:

It's like, you're a film director and the opportunity came up to screw George Lucas out of the rights to Star Wars¹...

¹Before he went and fucked them over himself by making Episodes 1 - 3 that is.

 

[elander_]

Cain may not be dead but Fallout has been made an orphan, and it's been left with the really creepy uncles that are dressing it up in flashy clothing and hooking it out onto X-Box Avenue.

Fuck, don't go on showing Bethesda two headed mutant like that. Someone may have a heart attack if he is not expecting to see that.

 

[Seboss]

Adolf Hitler: [...]

It seems the Godwins Law is still easily verified.

 

[Naked Ninja]

Given none of them are dead, it seems like an odd analogy

This is where you go wrong. A company isn't a single person, the "entity" which created the original fallout games is dead and gone. I'm sure Tim appreciates the hero worship on display but, seriously, it's more than a bit nutty.

It's like, you're a film director and the opportunity came up to screw George Lucas out of the rights to Star Wars¹...

No, it's like every writer/director who has wanted to do "his take" on Shakespeare's plays. The Bard is dead. The company who created Fallout is gone. The sentiment is the same, that of wanting to take a shot at a body of material you think is rocking. Saying "oh but original members of the team are still alive!" is pointless and interpreting Pete's analogy way too literally, for the purpose of flaming him.

Come now. I give you credit with as much intelligence as BN, you both know you're taking his words too literally in an attempt to prove why his analogy is tainted with the vilest of villainy. It's just silly. As is whipping out that odd photo of him. Anyone who has never had a bad photo taken of themselves is probably a lonely shut-in who has no friends with cameras .

 

[Shannow]

Given none of them are dead, it seems like an odd analogy

This is where you go wrong. A company isn't a single person, the "entity" which created the original fallout games is dead and gone. I'm sure Tim appreciates the hero worship on display but, seriously, it's more than a bit nutty.

It's like, you're a film director and the opportunity came up to screw George Lucas out of the rights to Star Wars¹...

No, it's like every writer/director who has wanted to do "his take" on Shakespeare's plays. The Bard is dead. The company who created Fallout is gone. The sentiment is the same, that of wanting to take a shot at a body of material you think is rocking. Saying "oh but original members of the team are still alive!" is pointless and interpreting Pete's analogy way too literally, for the purpose of flaming him.

Come now. I give you credit with as much intelligence as BN, you both know you're taking his words too literally in an attempt to prove why his analogy is tainted with the vilest of villainy. It's just silly. As is whipping out that odd photo of him. Anyone who has never had a bad photo taken of themselves is probably a lonely shut-in who has no friends with cameras .

 

[MasPingon]

Come now. I give you credit with as much intelligence as BN

Says Codex oracle and a voice of reason You should be proud

 

[DarkUnderlord]

This is where you go wrong. A company isn't a single person, the "entity" which created the original fallout games is dead and gone.

No, Interplay is still here. Unless of course, you mean the people behind the "entity" in which case... Oh wait, they're still here too. So... what was your point again?

I'm sure Tim appreciates the hero worship on display but, seriously, it's more than a bit nutty.

... and George Lucas hero worship would be different how, exactly? I mean, Lucas didn't create Star Wars all by himself.

It's like, you're a film director and the opportunity came up to screw George Lucas out of the rights to Star Wars¹...

No, it's like every writer/director who has wanted to do "his take" on Shakespeare's plays. The Bard is dead.

We've already established that the Bard (or Bards as the case may be) are all still alive. One even applied to work at Bethesda. Some tried to buy the license. So again, it's more like "pinching the Star Wars license while George is alive" than it is anything like "George Lucas has died"...

The company who created Fallout is gone.

Nope, we've established that that's still here too.

The sentiment is the same, that of wanting to take a shot at a body of material you think is rocking. Saying "oh but original members of the team are still alive!" is pointless and interpreting Pete's analogy way too literally, for the purpose of flaming him.

And interpreting it any other way only ends up where we were before. Everyone involved with Fallout is still alive. The company, the people. Everyone. As I understand it, an entity combined of many of those original people even tried to buy the license but were knocked back because apparently, George Lucas died or now Shakespeare is dead or something.

Come now. I give you credit with as much intelligence as BN, you both know you're taking his words too literally in an attempt to prove why his analogy is tainted with the vilest of villainy.

Pete Hines made the dumb analogy, not us.

 

[Naked Ninja]

No, Interplay is still here. Unless of course, you mean the people behind the "entity" in which case... Oh wait, they're still here too. So... what was your point again?

Did I not say I wasn't playing this stupid word game? Thats the not the same Interplay.

Nope, we've established that that's still here too.

Only if you're trying real hard to fit your concept of what Pete said into your twisted interpretation of what it means. Maybe if we dig up Shakespeares corpse, dress it in some modern cloths, give is a pimpin' hat, we could also claim he was still alive, just because bits of him are still around and can be assembled into a semi-humanoid form?

Sorry, no, the entity is gone.

As I understand it, an entity combined of many of those original people even tried to buy the license

And interestingly enough an entity consisting of many of the same people behind the Diablo series tried to make a good action RPG along similar lines and failed horribly. So that argument is a fail. The entity behind Fallout is gone. It does not exist in it's original configuration. The bits may be scattered around the place but that is meaningless.

Pete Hines made the dumb analogy, not us.

No, Pete made a perfectly reasonable, easy to understand analogy. But some of us can't read a damn thing the man says without beginning frothing at the mouth.

 

[MetalCraze]

what the difference? the whole thought that came out of depths of Pete's mind was stupid because they are too lazy bastards to come up with something original. Pete just wrapped it into a retarded excuse for that.

 

[Longshanks]

And my point wasn't that I'm annoyed or upset by this tomfoolery. My point was that this behavior is why people dismiss hardcore fallout fans. The minute you go down this path people automatically dump you in the "lunatic fringe" category, for good reason.

I think you're a moderately intelligent person blinded by your stereotypical view of the Fallout "hardcore" you've been trying so hard to justify, so I'll give you a pass on not realising that reasonable, right-minded people, can easily see past the odd silly over-reaction, or just plain having fun.

You also seem to have made an assumption that anyone actually cares about supposedly "hardcore" fans being marginalised, I'm sure there are many on this site and on NMA that revel in the "us against them bullshit". If anyone ever did think there was a reasonable chance of communicating with Bethesda, those days are long gone, so shit-flinging for fun, with true malice or whatever other purpose, will not affect this possibility one way or the other. If you are referring more to the gaming media perception, or that of other websites, I doubt most of this "hardcore" you seem to have identified really care.

No, Pete made a perfectly reasonable, easy to understand analogy. But some of us can't read a damn thing the man says without beginning frothing at the mouth.

And your response to a fairly reasonable (though I agree, in some ways questionable) and easy to understand denunciation of it, was no less frothy. Better be careful, your starting to exhibit similarly "loony" posting habits, as the horrible hardcore.

 

[hiver]

Damn it! I didnt need to see that title!
Luckily my brain warned me that this is the codex but anyway... dont do that shit to me!
I got cold sweat for few seconds, damn you OP.

Couldnt you just name it Pete says Lucas is dead or something?
Damn it...

 

[DarkUnderlord]

No, Interplay is still here. Unless of course, you mean the people behind the "entity" in which case... Oh wait, they're still here too. So... what was your point again?

Did I not say I wasn't playing this stupid word game? Thats the not the same Interplay.

You're the one who said "A company isn't a single person". I just pointed out that those people are still around. If that's too hard for you, I can understand why you'd want to give up. You do have a history of doing that, after all.

Nope, we've established that that's still here too.

Only if you're trying real hard to fit your concept of what Pete said into your twisted interpretation of what it means. Maybe if we dig up Shakespeares corpse, dress it in some modern cloths, give is a pimpin' hat, we could also claim he was still alive, just because bits of him are still around and can be assembled into a semi-humanoid form?

Concept of what Pete said? He clearly said "George Lucas". "It's like, if George Lucas died tomorrow". George Lucas created Star Wars. Tim Cain is credited as creating Fallout (no really, anywhere you go, Tim Cain is credited as creating Fallout the same way as Lucas is credited with Star Wars). So the only equivalent person to George Lucas when you're talking about Fallout is Tim Cain. Makes sense then that that's what the analogy is refering to isn't it? And Tim Cain is still alive. Pete's talking about embodying the spirit of a franchise into a single person and if you're talking about Fallout, Tim Cain would be it.

As I understand it, an entity combined of many of those original people even tried to buy the license

And interestingly enough an entity consisting of many of the same people behind the Diablo series tried to make a good action RPG along similar lines and failed horribly. So that argument is a fail.

You may not have realised this, I dunno maybe the name confused you, but "Hellgate: London" isn't "Diablo III". An interesting comparison though, I note Hellgate: London dropped the isometric view of the original Diablo's and moved to a first-person / over the shoulder combo. It doesn't have any of the lore of the originals and comes across as a shallow clone. Interesting, that.

The entity behind Fallout is gone. It does not exist in it's original configuration. The bits may be scattered around the place but that is meaningless.

In the same way that the bits of the Star Wars empire have been scattered around and "no longer exist" in their original form? Hey maybe Bethesda are moving into Star Wars movies next!

Pete Hines made the dumb analogy, not us.

No, Pete made a perfectly reasonable, easy to understand analogy. But some of us can't read a damn thing the man says without beginning frothing at the mouth.

Easy to understand? The man likened Bethesda to Peter Jackson. They're making "big epic films", they'd just finished their last epic masterpiece (he means Oblivion), and he starts talking about George Lucas being dead because if you're going to make a post-apocalyptic RPG, it may as well be Fallout, right? Hey, maybe that's why Flagship Studios failed? After all, if you're going to make an action RPG based around an invasion of hell spawn, it may as well be Diablo.

 

[Naked Ninja]

You're the one who said "A company isn't a single person". I just pointed out that those people are still around.

No, you're trying to be tricky and play word games. You're failing.

Pete's talking about embodying the spirit of a franchise into a single person and if you're talking about Fallout

No, Pete's talking about wanting to use the material after its originator is gone. Fallout's originator is gone no matter how much you want to put Tim Cain on a pedestal.

You may not have realised this, I dunno maybe the name confused you, but "Hellgate: London" isn't "Diablo III". An interesting comparison though, I note Hellgate: London dropped the isometric view of the original Diablo's and moved to a first-person / over the shoulder combo. It doesn't have any of the lore of the originals and comes across as a shallow clone. Interesting, that.

Trying to be tricky, again. Failing, again. But I do give you points for trying to tie Hellgate's failure in with its camera viewpoint and thus the hardcore fallout fans hatred of the non-isomentric view in F3. Good try.

In the same way that the bits of the Star Wars empire have been scattered around and "no longer exist" in their original form

Except the originators of the original Star Wars property exist and continue to produce the movies/use the licence. Stop trying to make out that Bethesda swooped in and stole it from Tim's feeble, clenched hands. It's very melodramatic and all, but it's still nutty.

because if you're going to make a post-apocalyptic RPG, it may as well be Fallout, right?

Oh please, a tiny percentage of their customer base give a damn about the Fallout license. After Oblivion they could just as easily have made anything else. I genuinely believe they paid that money and have gone to that effort because they actually loved the games and want to take a go at it. They may not be competent in the execution but your attempts to paint this perfectly benevolent sentiment as some sort of cape-swirling villainy are just tired.

 

[Kingston]

I forsee an epic battle over semantics.

 

[Brother None]

Wow wow!!!

HANG ON!

I am way smarter than DU.

Just thought I'd make that clear.

I genuinely believe they paid that money and have gone to that effort because they actually loved the games and want to take a go at it.

Ok, now you're the one veering into the loony-bin.

Bethesda is not the boss of its own wallet.
ZeniMax Media, the expanding conglomerate, is the boss of said wallet
ZeniMax Media decided to purchase the Fallout license. Not Bethesda.

Do you honestly think that ZeniMax made a 6 million dollar investment based on a bunch of Bethesda developers (not all of 'em, they haven't even all played the originals) love Fallout?

To paraphrase Morbo: COMPANIES DO NOT WORK THAT WAY.

 

[hiver]

Isnt the Todd Howard one who really, really wanted it?
And he got the zenimax to give the cash for it promising who knows what.

I somehow doubt zenimax even knows what the heck is Fallout.

 

[Naked Ninja]

Do you honestly believe Zenimax paid 6 million dollars to purchase a license which wasn't amazingly profitable and which the majority of the present market, especially the lucrative console section, doesn't really remember or care about?

Come on, your average Producer, on discovering that a fantasy game made lots of profit, goes to their developers and says "make another fantasy game"