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Risen 1 vs Gothic, the eternal debate

Paul_cz

Arcane
Joined
Jan 26, 2014
Messages
1,996
Let's all agree that Piranha Bytes game's endings are always dogshit without fail and despite that we like them, shall we ?
 

himmy

Arcane
Joined
Oct 13, 2012
Messages
1,150
Location
New Europe
It's been a few pages of arguing which PB games are good and which are shit and I am yet to see any of the G3 Underground step up so I will be the member of our minority to make the obligatory "Gothic 3 isn't that bad" comment:

Gothic 3 is not that bad and most non-core issue (bugs, excessive lensflare etc) are long gone thanks to the Community Patch. Core-wise, yes, it tried to bite more than it can chew, but they managed to make a game that, when properly patched, is genuinely fun to play. It's completely unfair to place it in the same cesspit as Arcania, Forsaken Gods, Risen 2 & 3. The exploration alone , while not as fulfilling as the one in Gothic 2, makes the game worth playing. I was genuinely surprised to find out how much some people here hate the game, when I always considered it being on par with G1 and only slightly under Gothic 2.

Frankly, I sometimes think some people hate Gothic 3 so much only because they're massive ponytail fans and couldn't come to terms with the Nameless Hero's bold new choice of haircut.
 

Paul_cz

Arcane
Joined
Jan 26, 2014
Messages
1,996
I enjoyed G3 but it does have some hard garbage elements. Varant sucks, Nordmar sucks, combat sucks, quest design sucks.

But Myrtana is fucking beautiful and fun to explore and atmosphere + music are so good I was able to finish the entire game with the canon ending. With some community patch.
 

Haplo

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Messages
6,138
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Exploration isn't rewarding in Gothic 3. Who thought it was a smart idea to make treasure chest content based on a list scaled depending on number of chests opened?
Plus top treasures are some 2-handers or something - weapons that are useless in Gothic 3 for some reason.
 
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
5,109
Since presumably Gothic 3's melee combat sucks posterior, how is mage combat? I am reaching for straws here.
 

Gepeu

Savant
Patron
Joined
Oct 16, 2016
Messages
986
It's auto aimed BS. Fireballs will follow their target infinitely. It's an easy mode. This is outrageous, since ranged combat requires manual aiming in G3.
 
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
5,109
It's auto aimed BS. Fireballs will follow their target infinitely. It's an easy mode. This is outrageous, since ranged combat requires manual aiming in G3.

It was like that in G1/2 as well, no? I did one playtrhough of G2 as a mage, it was way too easy and stupid. I did enjoy the whole monastery part, the sheep and everything, but the combat was terrible, and I enjoyed the melee play-throughs much better. As a mage, I think there was a bug where you could target enemies with spells before they d even see you, so you could get 2-3 fireballs in before they even started running for you.
 

Rev

Arcane
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
1,180
It was like that in G1/2 as well, no? I did one playtrhough of G2 as a mage, it was way too easy and stupid. I did enjoy the whole monastery part, the sheep and everything, but the combat was terrible, and I enjoyed the melee play-throughs much better. As a mage, I think there was a bug where you could target enemies with spells before they d even see you, so you could get 2-3 fireballs in before they even started running for you.
I don't know about the magic system in G3 since it's been too long since I last played it (and I never played as a mage, also), but in Gothic 1 and 2 spells can miss their target if it moves even slightly and sometimes they go off for no sensible reason. Also, when the enemy catches you and engage in melee your magic becomes almost useless, since you won't be able to hit it anymore if he's too close (in G1 you cannot cast if you're hit, so there's also that).
 

Gepeu

Savant
Patron
Joined
Oct 16, 2016
Messages
986
It was like that in G1/2 as well, no?
It was, but the ranged combat was auto-aimed as well. It's about inconsistency favorizing one type of combat over other. There's no point in using a bow that requires manual aiming, if you can auto-aim your fireballs.
 

T. Reich

Arcane
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
2,714
Location
not even close
In G1+2, most spells are projectile, meaning that the launched spell must hit the target (any target in its way, really), or it is wasted. Same for bow/xbow.

Btw, IIRC Durmin also covered the magic combat system in G3. It's as much of a trainwreck as melee combat.
 

Haplo

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Messages
6,138
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Since presumably Gothic 3's melee combat sucks posterior, how is mage combat? I am reaching for straws here.

Well, I had some fun with Gothic 3 melee - with REACH weapons. Meaning scythe, spear, halberd and Krush Tarach (Orc Halberd). I could generally outrange most opponents and keeping them at a distance was kinda refreshing and fun.
 

Kraszu

Prophet
Joined
May 27, 2005
Messages
3,253
Location
Poland
Gothic 3 combat isn't that bad with alternative ai on (or whatever it is called), in general turn all the balancing changes that comes with community patch. Some weapon animations are way too slow, but you can solve that issue by just not using them. The best character is meele-mage hybrid, you don't need any damage dealing spells, tame animal, and bloodlust are great.

Exploring in Gothic 3 is very good, it is just different, you aren't supposed to go to random place, and expect things to happen, first get clues on where there is something worthwhile to check.
 

Paul_cz

Arcane
Joined
Jan 26, 2014
Messages
1,996
I remember playing mage in G3, when I got the homing missiles and autoregen mana I was immortal and abandoned the game. Years later I restarted as warrior and that was lot better.
 

Jarmaro

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 31, 2016
Messages
1,466
Location
Lair of Despair
Exploring in Gothic 3 is very good, it is just different, you aren't supposed to go to random place, and expect things to happen, first get clues on where there is something worthwhile to check.
If you are following a path then you aren't exploring, you are following a path ;)
Exploration means discovering something hidden/not known
 

jaydee2k

Savant
Joined
Nov 3, 2016
Messages
449
World was nicely build in Gothic 3. It was handcrafted and you could see it. Compare that to Oblivion...
 

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
11,297
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
It's been a few pages of arguing which PB games are good and which are shit and I am yet to see any of the G3 Underground step up so I will be the member of our minority to make the obligatory "Gothic 3 isn't that bad" comment:

Gothic 3 is not that bad and most non-core issue (bugs, excessive lensflare etc) are long gone thanks to the Community Patch. Core-wise, yes, it tried to bite more than it can chew, but they managed to make a game that, when properly patched, is genuinely fun to play. It's completely unfair to place it in the same cesspit as Arcania, Forsaken Gods, Risen 2 & 3. The exploration alone , while not as fulfilling as the one in Gothic 2, makes the game worth playing. I was genuinely surprised to find out how much some people here hate the game, when I always considered it being on par with G1 and only slightly under Gothic 2.

Frankly, I sometimes think some people hate Gothic 3 so much only because they're massive ponytail fans and couldn't come to terms with the Nameless Hero's bold new choice of haircut.

Gothic 3 is pure garbage and the expansion was a sick disgusting cash grabbing piece of shite.



 
Last edited:

jaydee2k

Savant
Joined
Nov 3, 2016
Messages
449
Don't blame Piranha for the Expansion when it was actually developed by a handfull of Rajesh Koothrappalis.
 

J_C

One Bit Studio
Patron
Developer
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Messages
16,947
Location
Pannonia
Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
I don't recall ever being a debate about which one of those two are better. I thought it was obvious that G1 is superior.
 

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