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Fable 2 hype machine claims another victim

Unwanted

AndhairaIII

Unwanted
Joined
May 21, 2008
Messages
5
But then you have ideas like pc farting in cutscenes and npc's actually react to this.

I wonder how idea's such as these are proposed:

Imagine large publisher/developer meeting. The creative team and designers are sitting, prim and well dressed in the board room. PM then says, "Ok, now another important design we need to implement is farting. The pc MUST fart. He must do it in cutscenes. And the entire world HAS to react to the farts of the pc."

Molyneux then starts a slide show showing various people farting, and all the farting research stats they have conducted.

"In order to find out and realistically model this, we have conducted extensive research on how people in the real world react to farting in public. All of this will be implemented in the game"

Turns to look at design team. "Ok so can you guys do this? Can you make the gameworld react to each and every fart?"

Turns to attactive looking female marketing/PR executive

"Stacy, I want you to call up ign and gamespot. Tell them fable2 will have farting. Tell tjhem the entire gameworld will react to the pc's farts. Oh and call Japan and asknintendo if they would like to devlop a Wii controller that emulates farting. "

Turns to bewildered composers.

"Ok we ned a different sound effect for each and every type of fart out there. Get working on it."


etc
 

Fez

Erudite
Joined
May 18, 2004
Messages
7,954
Saint_Proverbius said:
The problem I have with this is basically the Mean Value Theorem. The guard loses the original warrants, time magically passes, the town is a crime ridden slum. As you're moving away from the number of 1 towards the number 2, you have to cross 1.5. During that time that magically passes, those original criminals have to commit more crimes thus there would be new warrants for those new crimes. Unless we assume that the guard that you didn't help is going to continue to lose warrant after warrant the entire time, it doesn't make sense that the town is going to go to hell in a handbasket.

In fact, I would argue that the results of the quest could easily be switched. Because you helped the inept guard, he was able to go on and continue to screw things up landing you in the Law of Unintended Consequences - Crime Town. If you didn't help the guard, he was fired for not being able to do his job and they hired a better guard - Town Flourishes.

It also seems a bit small minded to have such a small event like papers about a few criminals staying lost resulting in the fall of an entire town.

I'd agree with that. Molyneux's example seems to show bad C&C implementation. Nothing to be impressed about yet, especially seeing as I've not seen a decent game from him in years. Just hype.

It's no King of Dragon Pass.
 

Chefe

Erudite
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
4,731
Is KoDP the new PS:T? It's getting mentioned all over the place these days.
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
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KoDP is just awesome, that's what it is. Choice and Consequence en masse, huge replay value, awesome artwork... heck, it's just great.
 

Fez

Erudite
Joined
May 18, 2004
Messages
7,954
The first time I played it I was very surprised and pleased with the C&C elements. I don't know any other games that can compare with KoDP. I'll not be giving any spoilers for it as you're better off trying it for yourself to get the full impact of it.

I started off very cynical that it would ever live up to the hype and was quickly won over. Even playing a losing game (and it is not an easy game) can still be fun to see how all my choices play out and doom me and the clan. It is very easy to end up in a situation that is spiralling out of control if you are too hasty or unwise.
 

Gragt

Arcane
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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin
KoDP is indeed cool. I discovered it when JarlFrank posted his review on the Codex. Certainly one of the best games ever made.

Edit: King of Dragon Pass, I dub thee "Best Game EVAR".
 

Lumpy

Arcane
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
8,525
Saint_Proverbius said:
The problem I have with this is basically the Mean Value Theorem. The guard loses the original warrants, time magically passes, the town is a crime ridden slum. As you're moving away from the number of 1 towards the number 2, you have to cross 1.5. During that time that magically passes, those original criminals have to commit more crimes thus there would be new warrants for those new crimes. Unless we assume that the guard that you didn't help is going to continue to lose warrant after warrant the entire time, it doesn't make sense that the town is going to go to hell in a handbasket.

In fact, I would argue that the results of the quest could easily be switched. Because you helped the inept guard, he was able to go on and continue to screw things up landing you in the Law of Unintended Consequences - Crime Town. If you didn't help the guard, he was fired for not being able to do his job and they hired a better guard - Town Flourishes.

It also seems a bit small minded to have such a small event like papers about a few criminals staying lost resulting in the fall of an entire town.
Can't he just ask for those warrants to be written again, anyway? Heck, did they even have warrants in the fucking middle ages?
 

Truth

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May 21, 2008
Messages
195
Location
Elsewhere, move along...
I think it's such a significant scientific achievement that it will be on the cover of Wired.

molyneux_science.jpg
 

User was nabbed fit

Guest
Gragt said:
KoDP is indeed cool. I discovered it when JarlFrank posted his review on the Codex. Certainly one of the best games ever made.

Edit: King of Dragon Pass, I dub thee "Best Game EVAR".

Word that. I think I made him to do it after we talked about it and he was surprised there were people interested in it, so he felt like doing a review. Or I might be dreaming, but I think that's how it went down.
 

DoppelG

Scholar
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
198
Location
My mind
I have the feeling that Fable 2 will most likely be a complete failure or absolutely awesome or the chance that it'll be a gimmicky Fable wich then could be seen as an average game. I want to believe everything PM says, but even then i don't have the slightest clue to how good Fable 2 will turn out to be.

JarlFrank said:
Codexian review right here.

Thats why i love the Codex, you guys rock.
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
ViolentOpposition said:
Gragt said:
KoDP is indeed cool. I discovered it when JarlFrank posted his review on the Codex. Certainly one of the best games ever made.

Edit: King of Dragon Pass, I dub thee "Best Game EVAR".

Word that. I think I made him to do it after we talked about it and he was surprised there were people interested in it, so he felt like doing a review. Or I might be dreaming, but I think that's how it went down.

I've read about that game quite a lot of times here on the Codex, mainly by Callaxes and by you, so I went on the quest to get that game into my possession. After I was made a newsposter I thought we need some more content here, and there's that awesome RPG-ish game which is sadly so unknown, so I decided to review it. The game was so awesome that I wanted it to get some more publicity.

@Andhaira:
The learning curve *is* rather steep, but I didn't find it too hard for my own tastes. Guess I should've made that more clear.
 

Crazy Tuvok

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 17, 2002
Messages
429
Trash said:
it's not that black and white (hurrr). He did create some groundbreaking games in the past like Populous and still occasionally a very fun one like Fable. I just think that he gets too enthousiastic for his own good.

Populous was a great game. Fuck, still is. And even in B and W (the most disappointing game I have ever bought) he did a lot of really cool shit that I would like to see more often (the GUI and mouse use in B and W for example).

But as of late (say the last ten or so years) his games are great ideas that never see the light of day.

Dark Individual said:
What cool ideas are you talking about? One idea is to dumb down his game like there's no tomorrow and the other one is to implement C&C, a rather old idea successfully done long ago. He wants to turn the game industry in to McDonald's and you call him creative.

go back and read the stuff that he was promising for Fable or for Black and White - a lot of that shit would be downright fucking great if implemented non-superficially. And implementing C and C (whether or not one cares for this example) is creative and not easily done much less done well.

Saint Proverbius said:

Granted that is better. Still I like the idea nevertheless and it is a damn sight better than games wherein shit like this never happens.
 

Saint_Proverbius

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Behind you.
Crazy Tuvok said:
Granted that is better. Still I like the idea nevertheless and it is a damn sight better than games wherein shit like this never happens.

Given that we're talking about something Peter Molyneux said about Fable 2, chances are it's not going to make it in to the game anyway. I just think that the things Molyneux is hyping now is a step back from where he was a few years ago.

Helping a good but inept person shouldn't always lead to good results for everyone either. One could argue that Jimmy Carter was a good person back in the 1970s. Imagine a case where you helped him come to the decision to support the Islamic imams and "the people" in Iran the Shah monarchy, who could be argued was a dictator. Seems like a "good guy" choice, doesn't it? Didn't turn out that well, though!

Not that I want to turn this in to a political thread, it's just a real world example of how choices and consequences shouldn't be so clear cut. Helping the guard who loses vital warrants seems like a good guy decision, but I'd say it would be a great example of how blind do-gooding can lead to big screw ups with negative results.
 

Trash

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it's just a real world example of how choices and consequences shouldn't be so clear cut. Helping the guard who loses vital warrants seems like a good guy decision, but I'd say it would be a great example of how blind do-gooding can lead to big screw ups with negative results.

Kinda depends on what goals the designer has. By looking at Fable 1 I'd say they are going for more of the same. Deep lessons about life and the importance of the choices one makes don't seem to feature too much there. That's not a bad thing, it's just not that kind of a game. You allready tried the witcher?
 

Crazy Tuvok

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 17, 2002
Messages
429
Saint_Proverbius said:
Given that we're talking about something Peter Molyneux said about Fable 2, chances are it's not going to make it in to the game anyway. I just think that the things Molyneux is hyping now is a step back from where he was a few years ago.

Just about no chance I'd say. Honestly I haven't read anything about Fable 2 other than what is here as it is not a game really on my radar, but a step back might not be a such a bad idea for him. If it means it will actually make it into the game. The example given originally would be a step waaaaaay back from the stuff he usually promises but if it actually makes the game it will be an improvement over and a step forward what is actually in his games. Changing hair color or making my cow look more evil is not exactly the pinnacle of C and C.


Saint_Proverbius said:
Helping a good but inept person shouldn't always lead to good results for everyone either. [...] Helping the guard who loses vital warrants seems like a good guy decision, but I'd say it would be a great example of how blind do-gooding can lead to big screw ups with negative results.

True and would be damn cool in a game (and the few times I've seen it in games I liked it) but fable isn't really about moral complexity or the nuances of moral action. Good guys are good, bad guys are bad. This is actually fine and can work well in a game so long as the game derives its gameplay from the intent of such a simplistic structure. And I prefer something simpler like this to the faux moral complexity of say Baldur's Gate. At least it is honest.
 

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