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Which game made you give up on Bioware?

The game that made me quit Bioware forever was...


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I too will prize EA if they give me a a dozen millions. If they were able do good action it wouldn't have been rpgs. It would have been like asscreed origins or wolfenstein 2.


Dragon's Dogma is a hack and slash RPG, and its action gameplay is better than most action games.

From what I've seen of Assassin's Creed Origins, it would've been for the better if one of the last two Dragon Age games was like that as opposed to what they made.
 
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The reason DA2 is the biggest culprit MIGHT be the fact that it came out before the others like FO3 and ME2? I am a bit hazy on the timelines, so I might have had that wrong. Therefore, it copped the lion's share of the drop outs and while the same people might hate FO3 or ME2 with equal or greater intensity, DA2 already turned them off Bioware and the poll only asked for the first one that did.


DA2 is a year after ME2, and a few years after FO3. (Fallout 3?)

DA2 is kind of a special kind of disappointed that most games never achieve. It hits you in waves. The first big disappointment is probably when you discover you're never leaving that tiny town. Then you discover how bad the combat is. Then you discover you can't equip your group. Then you discover the combat system is worse than you original thought. Then you discover there's like one cave being reused over and over. Then you discover just how crappy this one town is. Then you discover the house dungeons are just like the caves. Then you discover the combat system is just total shit.

DA2 is just a bad game, one that can't do any of the things it seemingly is trying to do or they said they were trying to do. And every boss fight seems like a showcase for how horrible the gameplay is. Think that dragon in the quarry at the end might be one of the worst boss fights I've ever played in a game.
 

Cael

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The reason DA2 is the biggest culprit MIGHT be the fact that it came out before the others like FO3 and ME2? I am a bit hazy on the timelines, so I might have had that wrong. Therefore, it copped the lion's share of the drop outs and while the same people might hate FO3 or ME2 with equal or greater intensity, DA2 already turned them off Bioware and the poll only asked for the first one that did.


DA2 is a year after ME2, and a few years after FO3. (Fallout 3?)

DA2 is kind of a special kind of disappointed that most games never achieve. It hits you in waves. The first big disappointment is probably when you discover you're never leaving that tiny town. Then you discover how bad the combat is. Then you discover you can't equip your group. Then you discover the combat system is worse than you original thought. Then you discover there's like one cave being reused over and over. Then you discover just how crappy this one town is. Then you discover the house dungeons are just like the caves. Then you discover the combat system is just total shit.

DA2 is just a bad game, one that can't do any of the things it seemingly is trying to do or they said they were trying to do. And every boss fight seems like a showcase for how horrible the gameplay is. Think that dragon in the quarry at the end might be one of the worst boss fights I've ever played in a game.
I compared DA:O's choice of characters and DA2's, and was sufficiently disappointed that the very next thing (combat) made me walk away. And then I read about the incredible teleporting waves of attackers and was doubly glad I didn't bother.
 

fantadomat

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The reason DA2 is the biggest culprit MIGHT be the fact that it came out before the others like FO3 and ME2? I am a bit hazy on the timelines, so I might have had that wrong. Therefore, it copped the lion's share of the drop outs and while the same people might hate FO3 or ME2 with equal or greater intensity, DA2 already turned them off Bioware and the poll only asked for the first one that did.


DA2 is a year after ME2, and a few years after FO3. (Fallout 3?)

DA2 is kind of a special kind of disappointed that most games never achieve. It hits you in waves. The first big disappointment is probably when you discover you're never leaving that tiny town. Then you discover how bad the combat is. Then you discover you can't equip your group. Then you discover the combat system is worse than you original thought. Then you discover there's like one cave being reused over and over. Then you discover just how crappy this one town is. Then you discover the house dungeons are just like the caves. Then you discover the combat system is just total shit.

DA2 is just a bad game, one that can't do any of the things it seemingly is trying to do or they said they were trying to do. And every boss fight seems like a showcase for how horrible the gameplay is. Think that dragon in the quarry at the end might be one of the worst boss fights I've ever played in a game.
I am curious how badly the game will hold up in 2017/2018,somebody should make a glorious torture replay.
 

Iznaliu

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I am curious how badly the game will hold up in 2017/2018,somebody should make a glorious torture replay.

There's a good reason why nobody gives enough of a shit to replay it, since the game isn't that relevant and meaningful; in short, there is literally no reason to play it outside of gaining historical perspective.
 

ilitarist

Learned
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giphy.gif

Ah, sorry. I misunderstood the thread. After reading the other replies I understand now that I had to answer "after which point their game looked more mainstream than my personal self image allows to enjoy".

Bioware games are especially funny in that way. BG and NWN had terrible gameplay due to doomed attempts to adapt D&D and the writing wasn't that good and they were already pretty mainstream... However they're "cool" to like. Rose tinted nostalgia glasses are at full force there. And when Andromeda came out criticized by mainstream media for the things hardcore RPG fans pretend not to care about while the actual gameplay was the best BioWare had even done - there classic prejudices still worked better than any critical thinking and "edgy" circlejerk perfectly mimiced "mainstream" one. Meh, I say, meh!
 

Mebrilia the Viera Queen

Guest
And the one with the most cringy characters and stupid narrative... in fact after that game followed an huge decline both in gameplay and storytelling... or i have to remind people this?



if dragon age 2 was longer was also suicide inducing
 

Cael

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The whole of Dragon Age after DA:O is suicide inducing. The whole setting is like a battered wife, constantly getting worse and worse things done to it with no hope in sight other than the promise of another bollocking in the next installment. DA:O ended with hope that things will get better. Your choices in the game and at the end could send Ferelden on a more optimistic and open path, even though the writers keep trying to tell you that everything you do ends up as shite with the predictably stupid and bad "twists".

Oh, you helped the dwarf priest? Well guess what? You helped him get killed and started a WAR! Hur hur hur! You tried to elevate tolerance for city elves? Guess what? Their leader gets killed and you set the stage for a purge of the Alienage! Hur hur hur! It is like the writers live such miserable lives that they cannot bear that people get happy endings. Happy endings are "unrealistic" because we are a bunch of emo edgelords (to use the Codex term) and love to cut ourselves (given what they did with 2 and 3, I wish they did more and harder). It is as if you, the famed Warden could not intervene and try to prevent it from happening. Oh no. You just stood by the wayside and let something that you helped create crumble because Eh, Effort...!

But at least there was some good you could have done and they left a lot to your imagination (e.g., the dwarves could become Paragons, and they left it up to your imagination what you did when you were one, and you could become Queen as a female human noble, and the Dalish could be given freedom and a holding in the south, etc.).

Not so with DA2 and DA3. The endings are pure downer followed by foreshadowing of even more downers to come. DA2 ended with the Circle-Templar war no matter what you tried to do. DA3 ended with a promise of even more destruction with the removal of the Veil. Hell, it STARTED with people trying to stop a war all getting killed. Nothing you do mattered. In fact, DA3 was pretty much nothing more than a showcase of alphabet soup sex and how the devs were so :incloosive: and you, the player, are there just to witness how openminded they are. Yep. You just paid $100+ to watch animated alphabet soup softcore porn. Congrats. Now go find a porn site and get the real thing for free, you retard!
 
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anvi

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Are you even aware NWN1 was basically some make your own game software?

Are you even aware most people played it as a game and not a dev toolkit?
More fool them. The campaign was weak because they were busy making all those tools. But that shouldn't matter because you can play a thousand other campaigns that are far better and made by passionate gamers. That's the whole point of NWN.
 

fantadomat

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Ah, sorry. I misunderstood the thread. After reading the other replies I understand now that I had to answer "after which point their game looked more mainstream than my personal self image allows to enjoy".

Bioware games are especially funny in that way. BG and NWN had terrible gameplay due to doomed attempts to adapt D&D and the writing wasn't that good and they were already pretty mainstream... However they're "cool" to like. Rose tinted nostalgia glasses are at full force there. And when Andromeda came out criticized by mainstream media for the things hardcore RPG fans pretend not to care about while the actual gameplay was the best BioWare had even done - there classic prejudices still worked better than any critical thinking and "edgy" circlejerk perfectly mimiced "mainstream" one. Meh, I say, meh!
SXUBN.gif
 

ilitarist

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More fool them. The campaign was weak because they were busy making all those tools. But that shouldn't matter because you can play a thousand other campaigns that are far better and made by passionate gamers. That's the whole point of NWN.

Why would I care about the reasons for weak campaign? It still meant that when I chose between NWN and, say, Morrowind, NWN was inferior. Even years later anything I've tried to download from NWVault was amateur shit. Yeah, even acclaimed Dance with Rogues is shit - full of empty environments and minimalistic dialogues handling sex in a way that makes Dragon Age look like Fowles' thoughtful analysis of human feelings. I haven't tried Swordflight I saw recommended here yet but I don't see much greatness in devkit that gave birth to one decent module in 15 years. And if we're voting for devkits I'd go with Intellij Idea or Unity Dev Studio.

NWN is only redeemed by its expansions, especially Hordes of the Underdark where D&D is no longer in power and thus some decent gameplay is possible. And it gave way for NWN2, of course. Having a better devkit didn't stop NWN2 devs from including decent campaign.
 

anvi

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More fool them. The campaign was weak because they were busy making all those tools. But that shouldn't matter because you can play a thousand other campaigns that are far better and made by passionate gamers. That's the whole point of NWN.

Why would I care about the reasons for weak campaign? It still meant that when I chose between NWN and, say, Morrowind, NWN was inferior.
Because you aren't just paying for the campaign... You are paying for all the other stuff as well. Morrowind only has one campaign and no multiplayer. NWN has endless multiplayer and endless campaigns.
Even years later anything I've tried to download from NWVault was amateur shit.
Nah there is some good stuff.

NWN is only redeemed by its expansions, especially Hordes of the Underdark
That's because they already had the engine built so they could focus on the campaigns. The base game couldn't do that.

Having a better devkit didn't stop NWN2 devs from including decent campaign.
Debatable. I thought the original campaign was pretty boring. And that game came later with bigger budget, more modern dev tools and all of NWN to learn from and build upon. Again it is only the expansion that makes it worthwhile. Also the NWN2 editor is weaker than NWN.
 

Cael

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NWN2's OC was not too bad from a storytelling point of view so long as you play the goody two shoes. It had plot holes that would sink the Nimitz if you joined the Shadow Thieves.

It's main problems are elsewhere:
Chapter 1 was too long. It should have been cut into two parts. I get that they were trying to use Chapter 1 as a setup chapter, introducing most of the companions and the bad guys, but it tried to do too much.

Speaking of too much, the number of companions is also too many. At least a few of them had nothing to do with the plot. I get Khelgar and Elanee wanting to follow you around, and Neeshka is OK in the sense that she is from Neverwinter and makes for a handy expositor. But Grobnar? Qara? What the hell for? Bishop? After all the crap he says and threatens in the brief time in the party, who would want to continue to travel with him, regardless if you are Good or Evil? Sand? Yes, I can see him joining. Casavir? Debatable, especially when he knows you are going to go back to Neverwinter where he sort of has a price on his head and therefore could get you in trouble. Blade Golem? Seriously? What the hell for? You can get rid of 5 of the 11 companions with no degradation in party performance or altering the plot in any significant way (and making Ammon a sorceror instead of a crappy warlock would have been more in line with his constantly harped upon but never seen magical ability).

The unkillable or undismissable unless mandated by plot gameplay railroad. I get that they needed to do it for plot reasons as some of the NPCs had significant roles to play, but seriously, who did NOT see Bishop's betrayal coming? It was telegraphed right from the start. That you can't get rid of the guy but had to suffer the inevitable trainwreck is galling. There is nothing wrong with having Garius blow up the gate instead of Bishop having to open it, and having him turn up right at the end as a hireling of the bad guys would preserve the plotwreck of him appearing at the final scene. Plot preserved and we don't have to suffer through the flaming wreckage of bad drama. Similarly, if you are going to put in a gameplay device where NPCs can't permanently die, DON'T ABUSE THAT BY MAKING SOMEONE PERMANENTLY DIE! And for what? Bad writing again. Shandra would have had the same impact if she was critically injured and was taken out of the campaign for a while in a comatose condition. We could even have had a scene where Ammon expresses his regret over her sick bed. Everything else would have been the same except we now have the uncertainty whether she would make it or not.

The obviously rushed nature of Chapter 3. Executive meddling at its best. And the ending... Dear Lord, the ending. Up until that point, the OC was passable. Not brilliant but not junk either. It has a few holes and bad writing in parts, but that is pretty standard fare for RPGs. We aren't talking about Shakespeare. But rocks fall, everyone dies? That is satire, not plot.

The NWN2 OC had a lot of promise, but Bioware dropped the ball and had substandard writers on it. Some of it was brilliant, others were practically 3 year old kid in style and thinking. Boring? Yes, until you get out of Chapter 1 territory. Then, it picks up a lot with different things to do. Getting past Chapter 1 is a chore, though.
 

thesoup

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A bit late to the party, but I wanted to respond to the thread title with this:


Memes aside, I realized bioware was shit by growing up. They never made a good game.
 

Iznaliu

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In hindsight, I'm grateful that DA 2 had a demo. It was awful enough that I didn't even consider buying the full thing.

This is the ultimate answer to the question that is often posed by many: "Why don't new games have demos available?".
 

turul

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Never really liked Bioware's games. Origin made a whole lot of better games. Bioware felt like they were copying Origin. Now, Origin is a game downloader/store front software for EA, while Bioware is making games. It should've been the other way around. I bet EA thought about this recenlty...after Transdromeda.
 

anvi

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Never really liked Bioware's games. Origin made a whole lot of better games. Bioware felt like they were copying Origin. Now, Origin is a game downloader/store front software for EA, while Bioware is making games. It should've been the other way around. I bet EA thought about this recenlty...after Transdromeda.
Pretty sure the current Bioware is not the same company. The top people are no longer there and EA are just using their name. The list of great companies EA have killed is actually really huge and really hugely depressing.
 

Cat

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I keep sitting here thinking "Okay, <game> wasn't that good, but I liked <sequel>!" and then realizing that <sequel> was developed by Obsidian and not BioWare.
 

TC Jr

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Inquisition, only bioware game I bought at release lol what a retard, I skipped everything after ME2 and thought the complaints about DA2 were just about the SJW shit which I can stomach if there's a DA:O type of game underneath it, had no idea they just made a single player mmo, played it once, pure and utter shite.
 

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