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The Death of Immersive Sims?

Taka-Haradin puolipeikko

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What I meant with above post was that there were games before Looking Glass made U:UW, that had many defining characteristics of immersive sims, but lacked technology to include non-vehicular enemies or NPCs to open world.
 
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circ

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This supposed genre already had a name. First person shooter. Just because it has more interactive elements doesn't mean it simulates jack shit.
Prey, tell me how Ultima Underworlds or Thief were first person shooters?
Don't be autistic. It may have started as immersive whatever, although in the case of UU I don't see how it simulates anything, in Thief's case it could be argued the mechanics are pretty elaborate. But it has become a pointless term apparently if you start including DX and Prey in it. And LOL fuckign Dishonored are you kidding me? Not you but the numbskull press possibly.
 

Jasede

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I have been on this place for like ten years and we have never, ever called it 'immersive sim' until like 2 years ago when newfags began parroting some shitty blogs. It's a retarded name.

We called Deus Ex an RPG or an FPS/RPG hybrid or an FPS, depending on your view on RPGs. Same for Shock 2. Sometimes (mainly by me) I suggested calling them First Person Adventures because that's what Nintendo used to call Metroid Prime and I liked that term. Thief we called a first person sneaker or an FPS with a focus on stealth, though again, I'd like to advocate First Person Adventure as the Nintendo precedent is there.

Immersive sim sounds gay and retarded and everyone who uses that word is an incorrigible faggot. It's actually a retarded term that means nothing.


Look, we had ENDLESS "is Deus Ex / System Shock 2 an RPG?!?!? DICSUSS!!!1" threads. The term 'immersive sim' was never used during those threads; the first time I read it was like two years ago. Fuck that term and the jewfags using it.
 

Roguey

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I have been on this place for like ten years and we have never, ever called it 'immersive sim' until like 2 years ago when newfags began parroting some shitty blogs. It's a retarded name.
Wyrmlord said:
Deus Ex was not a long game either, so it might to be strange to also say, "This game is so short, unlike Deus Ex." Deus Ex was a 16-hour long game on the first play.
Really, because it took me 35 hours. And I'd still say 16 hours is long enough, given the genre (fps/adventure/rpg/immersive sim).

That was me in 2011. :)
 

Jasede

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Yeah but nobody cares about you, so... and 2011 is modern day, I am talking 2005-2010.

But for serious, did you come up with that? Where'd you read the word? TTLG?
 

Roguey

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Yeah but nobody cares about you, so... and 2011 is modern day, I am talking 2005-2010.

But for serious, did you come up with that? Where'd you read the word? TTLG?

I answered this question earlier in the thread, Warren Spector's Deus Ex post-mortem.
 

Jasede

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Bah, Warren Spector is a self-important buffoon! Still, thanks, I missed that post.
 

Darth Roxor

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I have been on this place for like ten years and we have never, ever called it 'immersive sim' until like 2 years ago when newfags began parroting some shitty blogs. It's a retarded name.

We called Deus Ex an RPG or an FPS/RPG hybrid or an FPS, depending on your view on RPGs. Same for Shock 2. Sometimes (mainly by me) I suggested calling them First Person Adventures because that's what Nintendo used to call Metroid Prime and I liked that term. Thief we called a first person sneaker or an FPS with a focus on stealth, though again, I'd like to advocate First Person Adventure as the Nintendo precedent is there.

Immersive sim sounds gay and retarded and everyone who uses that word is an incorrigible faggot. It's actually a retarded term that means nothing.


Look, we had ENDLESS "is Deus Ex / System Shock 2 an RPG?!?!? DICSUSS!!!1" threads. The term 'immersive sim' was never used during those threads; the first time I read it was like two years ago. Fuck that term and the jewfags using it.

Quoted for truth.
 

Tacgnol

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I have been on this place for like ten years and we have never, ever called it 'immersive sim' until like 2 years ago when newfags began parroting some shitty blogs. It's a retarded name.

We called Deus Ex an RPG or an FPS/RPG hybrid or an FPS, depending on your view on RPGs. Same for Shock 2. Sometimes (mainly by me) I suggested calling them First Person Adventures because that's what Nintendo used to call Metroid Prime and I liked that term. Thief we called a first person sneaker or an FPS with a focus on stealth, though again, I'd like to advocate First Person Adventure as the Nintendo precedent is there.

Immersive sim sounds gay and retarded and everyone who uses that word is an incorrigible faggot. It's actually a retarded term that means nothing.


Look, we had ENDLESS "is Deus Ex / System Shock 2 an RPG?!?!? DICSUSS!!!1" threads. The term 'immersive sim' was never used during those threads; the first time I read it was like two years ago. Fuck that term and the jewfags using it.

I also find it a pretty stupid term. It's far more descriptive to actually describe the genre of the game.

Immersive sim can mean literally anything.
 

Ash

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Yeah but nobody cares about you, so... and 2011 is modern day, I am talking 2005-2010.

But for serious, did you come up with that? Where'd you read the word? TTLG?

I answered this question earlier in the thread, Warren Spector's Deus Ex post-mortem.

Possibly Doug Church originally back in the 90s, I think I remember reading.

Lol these threads.

Yes, its intended meaning applies to Stealth games, shooters, and RPGs. If you can't wrap your head around how that can be, then stop posting.
Yes the name is imperfect, in the same way ROLE-PLAYING GAME is ("wut is an ArrPeeGee?". "lel it's a game in which one plays a ROLE, you see"). Generic, non-descriptive, can apply to many things.
People that never heard the term prior to 201x clearly aren't attentive fans of Looking Glass-like games, therefore that's why you never heard of it. There's threads using the term on TTLG in the 2000s for instance.
Why so mad that a label at least some of the devs assigned to their own work popularised over time? The only annoying thing about it is it's a rather generic term and can be applied to a wide variety of games if taken literally, but again, that's the same case (if not worse) when it comes to "RPGs".
 
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Sometimes (mainly by me) I suggested calling them First Person Adventures
Just like Myst then :M

You can bash the term all you want but it's still miles better than anything recommended in this thread so far.

The way immersive sims are designed is to start from a high level concept (spy adventure, sci-fi survival horror etc) and then build all the systems in order to better simulate this idea. That means that every system in the games must be as close to reality as possible, with the abstractions kept to a minimum. That's the first point where they differ from other genres.

The second point is the focus on amplifying the amount of interactive systems as much as possible, which is both their biggest strength and weakness; it results in less overall polish in each individual system, but also in less variation in each of the systems through the course of the game (Because the sheer amount of interconnected systems makes it hard to make changes in one system without having to rebalance the whole thing).

'Immersive Sim' actually hints at this process, even vaguely: The "immersive" part refers to the high level concept ("the goal is to provide an immersive spy adventure"), and "sim" refers to the attempt to simulate it through the various systems. Just calling them FPS\RPG\whatever hybrids is missing on their common philosophy towards game design.
 

Jasede

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Today I learned Elite: Dangerous, Flight Simulator X and Collin McRae Rally are immersive sims. It's like I'm really there!

(Satire)
 

Deflowerer

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At least immersive sims had some sort of a renaissance.

Meanwhile, tactical non-MP focused shooters...

:negative::negative::negative:
 

anvi

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You all need to google for a dictionary or something. System Shock is an immersive sim in that it simulates being trapped on a space station controlled by a mad AI while getting chased by zombies. And it is immersive. You can simulate things that are not real in real life, that is allowed. And the distinction with 'sim' is that games like Duke 3d or Doom or whatever are not attempting to be simulations because they have music blazing, low tech sound, and level design and gameplay made just for fun not for being realistic. Games like System Shock are not like that with the ability to peak over ledges, sounds of water dripping etc... Infinitard might be a moron but he is right, it is a pretentious term but it is as good as we have and the terms for most stuff in gaming could be picked apart too. What is an RPG?! Get over it, discuss something interesting or gtfo.
 
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Immersive Sim is a great, fitting name for the trash it is applied to. Trivial abortions where all the mechanics are optional and dont matter. All that matters is larp.
It truthfully denies those cancerous grows the 'game' title. A running simulator where you play pretend (immerse) and larp.

There is no mechanical difference between Desu Shit and Dear Esther or Oblivion for that matter.
 

Roguey

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Today I learned Elite: Dangerous, Flight Simulator X and Collin McRae Rally are immersive sims. It's like I'm really there!

(Satire)
8880.jpg
 

Infinitron

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Look it's not hard.

Immersive sim IS a real term that was used historically at Looking Glass Studios and by figures such as Doug Church & Warren Spector all the way since the late 90s.

For most of the time since then, it was NOT widely recognized or used by actual gamers. They usually called these games "FPS/RPGs" etc as Jasede says.

The term came into common use when Arkane Studios made a bid at explicitly reviving the Looking Glass legacy with Dishonored & Prey, which sent game journalists looking through history books to find terms to describe the genre.
 
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Today I learned Elite: Dangerous, Flight Simulator X and Collin McRae Rally are immersive sims. It's like I'm really there!

(Satire)

Well you can argue that sports\racing games also start with a high level concept and then attempt to simulate it, but I was thinking specifically about high level concepts that are distillations of some kind of fiction, not just "this game simulates soccer". Immersive sims always feature an overarching narrative.
(besides, most sports/racing games don't even have a strong simulationist focus).

About flight sims, I was under the impression that they tend to be almost entirely gameplay-focused (at least the most simulationist ones), but don't quote me on that. Now, theoritically speaking, if you can make a flight sim that is based on some kind of narrative premise and with a focus on having as many interactive systems as possible, while retaining the emphasis on simulation, it would probably qualify as an immersive sim. But at this point you have practically expanded the definition of the genre, because a vehicle-based immersive sim has never been tried before. And if many games decide to go this route we may end up with a new (sub)genre.
 

vonAchdorf

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What would the immersive sim elements of "Legend of Zelda" be? An "exploring the Tokyo country side during the childhood" sim? Fire burning bushes and water creatures living in the water?
 

Jasede

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Arkane is probably the only studio around right now that could make a good Ultima Underworld.
Let's not forget their work on Arx Fatalis.
 

DeepOcean

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You guys overhype Arkane to the point of silliness, they still are a Bethesda bitch and if you hope that Zionmax will make Arx 2, maybe it is time to have new expectations on life, that ship sailed long and long ago. I just don't like the gameplay design on Arkane latest games, the same ultra OP abilities, the same ultra easy combat, the light RPG systems and the butchering that Prey passed through where pretty much whole gameplay systems were cut out of necessity of dumbing down. Arkane won't ever achieve the quality of the older Ultima games , not even the quality of their own older games like Arx or Might and Magic while Bethesda is at the helm.

While I admire their great level design, a good game, especially an RPG one isn't only made of great level geometry.
 

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