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RPG Codex Interview: Chris Avellone on Pillars Cut Content, Game Development Hierarchies and More

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
Patron
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Messages
1,874,662
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Roanoke, VA
Grab the Codex by the pussy
We've had some cross-contamination between the Codex and the chan that was founded for weeaboos to doodle their noodles over cartoon drawings of little girls, but when will this get even more meta?

Will we be appearing in concert on Reddit tomorrow, perhaps? Any guesses?
 

ColonelTeacup

Liturgist
Joined
Mar 19, 2017
Messages
1,433
I don't get it, what outrageous claim are you being asked to believe here?

Eric Fenstermaker said:
  • I did have a role in things turning out this way and I did apologize to Chris for it. I gave far too little oversight, thinking that a set of constraints and approval of an initial design, with periodic email check-ins would be sufficient. Chris was often offsite, I was swamped, and it was all too easy to backburner communication. I thought more regular feedback would only have been a hindrance to someone who’d made a lot of his reputation off of so many well-liked companions.

Hasn't it always been pretty obvious that something like this is what happened? I don't see that anything that Chris has said contradicts it.
Sounds like PR speak for "I ignored this talented co-founders communications because he's talented and made great games so there's no need to talk to him". Even in terms of PR speak, it sounds idiotic. Who doesn't communicate with their team on a group project?
 

Azarkon

Arcane
Joined
Oct 7, 2005
Messages
2,989
The motivation isn't hard to understand.
Dude, are you for real. This some insano cruel shit. I never, ever heard any that came close to this kind of shit in the game industry, and this industry is a really toxic place. Granted, I'm not a developer, but an agreement where you can't never work again IN YOUR WHOLE FUCKING LIFE? That is beyond insane. It has nothing to do with business, bra. That's pure evil. Remember the theme of Tyranny is "When Evil Wins". That's fiting for Obsidian. Here is another irony: Avellone's character Erritis in T:ToN, acting in a way because he was forced to.

It's common in the technology industry, in general, but as I said in the post you quoted: it's usually limited to a year or less, and it's used for critical persons, not your average programmer.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Aug 21, 2014
Messages
294
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Who doesn't communicate with their team on a group project?

You’ve clearly never worked on a group project before


Also, I’m lost. Did Chris sign this agreement or not? If he signed it, why is he still writing for every RPG coming out this year and next if it banned him from EVER WORKING AGAIN IN HIS FIELD FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE or whatnot?
 
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Messages
1,301
Grab the Codex by the pussy
It's the story Chris himself tells
This statement is clearly contradicted by the interview. It seems more likely that he was just holding back until he couldn't mantain the public facade any longer.

There's also the Feargus: Hey, want to kickstart a successor to Torment? Chris: I can't handle another death march story that he himself told.
Could be a tongue in cheek comment, a personal statement about a different project with different expectations, etc. If you think that creative people settle down like this you need to go out more. Avellone complained in mutiple occasions that he was first and foremost a developer and that he resented people labelling him as a mere writer.

I know what he said. The question is, why he said it - because he personally felt that way, or because this was the story they decided on when he signed his separation contract.
The later, obviously. The interview trumps your quote, Roguey. Sorry.
 

2house2fly

Magister
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
1,877
I don't get it, what outrageous claim are you being asked to believe here?

Eric Fenstermaker said:
  • I did have a role in things turning out this way and I did apologize to Chris for it. I gave far too little oversight, thinking that a set of constraints and approval of an initial design, with periodic email check-ins would be sufficient. Chris was often offsite, I was swamped, and it was all too easy to backburner communication. I thought more regular feedback would only have been a hindrance to someone who’d made a lot of his reputation off of so many well-liked companions.

Hasn't it always been pretty obvious that something like this is what happened? I don't see that anything that Chris has said contradicts it.
Sounds like PR speak for "I ignored this talented co-founders communications because he's talented and made great games so there's no need to talk to him". Even in terms of PR speak, it sounds idiotic. Who doesn't communicate with their team on a group project?
It does sound idiotic, which is probably why Fenstermaker described it as a mistake he made
 

Latro

Arcane
Joined
Jun 5, 2013
Messages
7,345
Location
Vita umbratilis
The motivation isn't hard to understand.
Dude, are you for real. This some insano cruel shit. I never, ever heard any that came close to this kind of shit in the game industry, and this industry is a really toxic place. Granted, I'm not a developer, but an agreement where you can't never work again IN YOUR WHOLE FUCKING LIFE? That is beyond insane. It has nothing to do with business, bra. That's pure evil. Remember the theme of Tyranny is "When Evil Wins". That's fiting for Obsidian. Here is another irony: Avellone's character Erritis in T:ToN, acting in a way because he was forced to.

It's common in the technology industry, in general, but as I said in the post you quoted: it's usually limited to a year or less.
Is withholding health-care to a cancer-patient for a year ethical (or getting in the way of it, at least)? Or normal? I mean, that's what they did, and MCA worked his butt off to be independent...but what if he couldn't? Or what if he had failed? There's no good way to spin this. MCA's ire is justified.
 

Sentinel

Arcane
Joined
Nov 18, 2015
Messages
6,633
Location
Ommadawn
Who doesn't communicate with their team on a group project?

You’ve clearly never worked on a group project before


Also, I’m lost. Did Chris sign this agreement or not? If he signed it, why is he still writing for every RPG coming out this year and next if it banned him from EVER WORKING AGAIN IN HIS FIELD FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE or whatnot?
No he didn't. He told them to stick the paper up their butts, lit a cigar and walked out of the building with his jacket over his right shoulder.
 
Joined
Aug 21, 2014
Messages
294
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Who doesn't communicate with their team on a group project?

You’ve clearly never worked on a group project before


Also, I’m lost. Did Chris sign this agreement or not? If he signed it, why is he still writing for every RPG coming out this year and next if it banned him from EVER WORKING AGAIN IN HIS FIELD FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE or whatnot?
No he didn't. He told them to stick the paper up their butts, lit a cigar and walked out of the building with his jacket over his right shoulder.

So what’s this NDA that allegedly kept him from spilling the beans until Fenstemaker’s interview?
 

Azarkon

Arcane
Joined
Oct 7, 2005
Messages
2,989
The motivation isn't hard to understand.
Dude, are you for real. This some insano cruel shit. I never, ever heard any that came close to this kind of shit in the game industry, and this industry is a really toxic place. Granted, I'm not a developer, but an agreement where you can't never work again IN YOUR WHOLE FUCKING LIFE? That is beyond insane. It has nothing to do with business, bra. That's pure evil. Remember the theme of Tyranny is "When Evil Wins". That's fiting for Obsidian. Here is another irony: Avellone's character Erritis in T:ToN, acting in a way because he was forced to.

It's common in the technology industry, in general, but as I said in the post you quoted: it's usually limited to a year or less.
Is withholding health-care to a cancer-patient for a year ethical (or getting in the way of it, at least)? Or normal? I mean, that's what they did, and MCA worked his butt off to be independent...but what if he couldn't? Or what if he had failed? There's no good way to spin this. MCA's ire is justified.

Obviously not, but the no competition agreement is a common tactic used by technology companies to prevent their critical employees, who they've invested significant resources in, from just walking away to a competitor. Usually, though, it's a contract negotiated between the two parties, where both enter into a voluntary agreement to avoid a bad break up. Chris, however, sounds like he was forced into the situation through his debts, this would make what Obsidian did highly immoral.
 
Last edited:

Sentinel

Arcane
Joined
Nov 18, 2015
Messages
6,633
Location
Ommadawn
We've had some cross-contamination between the Codex and the chan that was founded for weeaboos to doodle their noodles over cartoon drawings of little girls, but when will this get even more meta?

Will we be appearing in concert on Reddit tomorrow, perhaps? Any guesses?
Decided to check if reddit had anything to say about this. Found:

VI5tp08.png
 

ColonelTeacup

Liturgist
Joined
Mar 19, 2017
Messages
1,433
I don't get it, what outrageous claim are you being asked to believe here?

Eric Fenstermaker said:
  • I did have a role in things turning out this way and I did apologize to Chris for it. I gave far too little oversight, thinking that a set of constraints and approval of an initial design, with periodic email check-ins would be sufficient. Chris was often offsite, I was swamped, and it was all too easy to backburner communication. I thought more regular feedback would only have been a hindrance to someone who’d made a lot of his reputation off of so many well-liked companions.

Hasn't it always been pretty obvious that something like this is what happened? I don't see that anything that Chris has said contradicts it.
Sounds like PR speak for "I ignored this talented co-founders communications because he's talented and made great games so there's no need to talk to him". Even in terms of PR speak, it sounds idiotic. Who doesn't communicate with their team on a group project?
It does sound idiotic, which is probably why Fenstermaker described it as a mistake he made
Perhaps he was jealous of the obvious divide in talent between the two of them, and was lashing out as a result?
 

Sentinel

Arcane
Joined
Nov 18, 2015
Messages
6,633
Location
Ommadawn
Who doesn't communicate with their team on a group project?

You’ve clearly never worked on a group project before


Also, I’m lost. Did Chris sign this agreement or not? If he signed it, why is he still writing for every RPG coming out this year and next if it banned him from EVER WORKING AGAIN IN HIS FIELD FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE or whatnot?
No he didn't. He told them to stick the paper up their butts, lit a cigar and walked out of the building with his jacket over his right shoulder.

So what’s this NDA that allegedly kept him from spilling the beans until Fenstemaker’s interview?
It's what they wanted him to sign I think. But he didn't. It involved not talking/criticizing his past games and not working on RPGs. Didn't have anything to do with Fenstermaker's interview IIRC.

EDIT: here's the relevant bit I could find in a hurry
Realizing my family issues and the debts therein, however, they did make an attempt to leverage that into a far more confining separation agreement that would remove my right to work on RPGs, and my silence on all issues that could pertain to Obsidian or any other company they were involved with or the CEO had a % in (Fig, Zero Radius, Dark Rock Industries, etc.). This included an inability to critique games I’d worked on – much of my critiques on my own games tend to be blunt, and not being able to speak to them felt unnatural to me.

The company involvement silence worried me more, however, as it meant that if anything illegal happened with any of those companies (these could include serious charges like accounting issues, silence on harassment issues with regards to employees, perjury related to company documents and payments), I couldn’t speak about the issue, even if I felt strongly against what was being revealed.

While all this is good for Obsidian's upper management and is what is sometimes considered "good business," I did feel it showed a lack of ethics.
 

ColonelTeacup

Liturgist
Joined
Mar 19, 2017
Messages
1,433
We've had some cross-contamination between the Codex and the chan that was founded for weeaboos to doodle their noodles over cartoon drawings of little girls, but when will this get even more meta?

Will we be appearing in concert on Reddit tomorrow, perhaps? Any guesses?
Decided to check if reddit had anything to say about this. Found:

VI5tp08.png
Small Indie Company
Enough said right there.
 

Kyl Von Kull

The Night Tripper
Patron
Joined
Jun 15, 2017
Messages
3,152
Location
Jamrock District
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
[


Is withholding health-care to a cancer-patient for a year ethical (or getting in the way of it, at least)? Or normal? I mean, that's what they did, and MCA worked his butt off to be independent...but what if he couldn't? Or what if he had failed? There's no good way to spin this. MCA's ire is justified.

I think there’s some confusion here. It’s doubtful MCA’s mom was getting her health insurance from Obsidian. They cancelled MCA’s health plan, which typically covers spouse and kids, not parents (unless he already had her as a dependent before she got sick and even then many plans won’t cover a parent). His mom was probably old enough to be eligible for Medicare, not that that’s necessarily adequate for treating cancer. But Feargus wasn’t kicking Mrs. Avellone off her chemo, except insofar as he was denying Chris the money he needed to pay her treatment costs out of pocket.

Pretty sure this all would’ve played out differently if his mom’s cancer treatment was genuinely in the balance.
 

ColonelTeacup

Liturgist
Joined
Mar 19, 2017
Messages
1,433
[


Is withholding health-care to a cancer-patient for a year ethical (or getting in the way of it, at least)? Or normal? I mean, that's what they did, and MCA worked his butt off to be independent...but what if he couldn't? Or what if he had failed? There's no good way to spin this. MCA's ire is justified.

I think there’s some confusion here. It’s doubtful MCA’s mom was getting her health insurance from Obsidian. They cancelled MCA’s health plan, which typically covers spouse and kids, not parents (unless he already had her as a dependent before she got sick and even then many plans won’t cover a parent). His mom was probably old enough to be eligible for Medicare, not that that’s necessarily adequate for treating cancer. But Feargus wasn’t kicking Mrs. Avellone off her chemo, except insofar as he was denying Chris the money he needed to pay her treatment costs out of pocket.

Pretty sure this all would’ve played out differently if his mom’s cancer treatment was genuinely in the balance.
Jesus Christ, they stopped his mother sick with cancer from getting treatments?
 

Ninjerk

Arcane
Joined
Jul 10, 2013
Messages
14,323
[


Is withholding health-care to a cancer-patient for a year ethical (or getting in the way of it, at least)? Or normal? I mean, that's what they did, and MCA worked his butt off to be independent...but what if he couldn't? Or what if he had failed? There's no good way to spin this. MCA's ire is justified.

I think there’s some confusion here. It’s doubtful MCA’s mom was getting her health insurance from Obsidian. They cancelled MCA’s health plan, which typically covers spouse and kids, not parents (unless he already had her as a dependent before she got sick and even then many plans won’t cover a parent). His mom was probably old enough to be eligible for Medicare, not that that’s necessarily adequate for treating cancer. But Feargus wasn’t kicking Mrs. Avellone off her chemo, except insofar as he was denying Chris the money he needed to pay her treatment costs out of pocket.

Pretty sure this all would’ve played out differently if his mom’s cancer treatment was genuinely in the balance.
Jesus Christ, they stopped his mother sick with cancer from getting treatments?
Like, barred the doors of the treatment facility?
 

Latro

Arcane
Joined
Jun 5, 2013
Messages
7,345
Location
Vita umbratilis
[


Is withholding health-care to a cancer-patient for a year ethical (or getting in the way of it, at least)? Or normal? I mean, that's what they did, and MCA worked his butt off to be independent...but what if he couldn't? Or what if he had failed? There's no good way to spin this. MCA's ire is justified.

I think there’s some confusion here. It’s doubtful MCA’s mom was getting her health insurance from Obsidian. They cancelled MCA’s health plan, which typically covers spouse and kids, not parents (unless he already had her as a dependent before she got sick and even then many plans won’t cover a parent). His mom was probably old enough to be eligible for Medicare, not that that’s necessarily adequate for treating cancer. But Feargus wasn’t kicking Mrs. Avellone off her chemo, except insofar as he was denying Chris the money he needed to pay her treatment costs out of pocket.

Pretty sure this all would’ve played out differently if his mom’s cancer treatment was genuinely in the balance.
Jesus Christ, they stopped his mother sick with cancer from getting treatments?
Like, barred the doors of the treatment facility?
i heard they put some wolves around the facility
 

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
Patron
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Messages
1,874,662
Location
Roanoke, VA
Grab the Codex by the pussy
We've had some cross-contamination between the Codex and the chan that was founded for weeaboos to doodle their noodles over cartoon drawings of little girls, but when will this get even more meta?

Will we be appearing in concert on Reddit tomorrow, perhaps? Any guesses?
Decided to check if reddit had anything to say about this. Found:

VI5tp08.png

Holy shit. :lol:

What an incredible ride this has been so far. It's almost as exciting as when NeoFAG self-destructed a few months ago, and has the potential to surpass it, even.
 

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