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Do you metagame?

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
13,987
Location
Platypus Planet
If you replay a game then that falls under metagaming since you're approaching the game with knowledge that the game hasn't imparted on you yet.

Only if you abuse your knowledge. In Morrowind, I never went out of my way to search for powerful items.

There's no way not to abuse your knowledge short of getting amnesia and forgetting everything. Everything you do will be done better and more efficiently in replays and that's simply because you have meta knowledge from the previous playthrough. You can avoid beelining for the powerful loot but as I mentioned you'll still be playing the game better and not like a new person simply because of the things you know.
 

Citizen

Guest
The only reason to play games is to powergame highest difficulties. But you should come with overpowered winning strategies yourself, reading about them makes wasting your time pointless and kills enjoyment.
 

Keye_

Educated
Joined
Dec 5, 2016
Messages
78
I dislike starting over mid-game, so usually I look up some general character and party building tips before starting the game. I mostly only play games once, so I want to have a good time from the get go.
I don't strictly follow these, I mostly build RP inspired characters. I just like to have a general idea that I'm going in the right direction.
For example: when starting Deus Ex for the first time I looked up what was viable and what wasn't. I found out that swimming, medicine and Environmental Training were pretty useless compared to the rest.
Then I just played the game with my melee stealth build, knowing that this wouldn't get me in trouble in the late game.
Another example would be looking up VtMB to know that you need combat skills for the second half of the game.
A lot of games (like VtMB and Deus Ex) do a pretty bad job of telling you what you'll need at higher levels, I just want to avoid those situations.
 

Max Damage

Savant
Joined
Mar 1, 2017
Messages
657
Depends on what is considered metagaming by one's standarts. I usually don't look up any walkthroughs unless I get stuck, nor do I google party compositions/builds/loadouts, but some burden of knowledge is transeferred inside genres and is hard to avoid. For example, nowadays I always keep healer and tank type of classes inside party (for squad based games), usually with at least one "damage dealer" and a "utility" class, because from my experience, a well-rounded party is most fun/least frustrating to play. Same goes for stocking on consumables, always have money for basic expenses if in doubts. Opposite for "cool but too situational" stuff (like limited use expensive wands in RPGs/point blank range shotguns in FPSs). I tend to gravitate more towards safe choices, and then look up additional info on repeated playthroughs.
 

Alkarl

Learned
Joined
Oct 9, 2016
Messages
472
Not really. If the game offers different approaches via c&c I may read up a bit about it, i.e. if evil parties are viable, if being a cunt to npcs will shut me out of stuff. But in depth stuff? Nah.

Character builds typically aren't an issue either. I mean who builds a mage and wonders if they should throw all their stat points into Strength?

Makes things more interesting when I fail a persuade roll and have to weigh the consequences of walking away or intimidating/murdering an npc. Maybe I don't get that special magic item and have to compensate in other ways. Maybe I just really want it, and averice forces my otherwise good pc down a dark path of skullduggery and bloodshed.
 

Grampy_Bone

Arcane
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
3,619
Location
Wandering the world randomly in search of maps
Hmm let me think real hard about this....


tFbkL8u.jpg
 

Atlet

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Nov 11, 2017
Messages
1,563
I asked this because it's common to make mistakes in character building when we dont have a guide. I did a lot in my first playthrougs in some games that have deep character customization.

I.e, a sorceror in BG2 doesnt need to spend points in strenght. Even an idiot understands that. But, what about the spells to choose? If you dont choose wisely you will suffer a lot if you are playing with SCS.

I still prefer to not read guides about character creation, tho', since this guides breaks, at some level, the immersion. Good to know that this is a common sense here.
 
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SCO

Arcane
In My Safe Space
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
16,320
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Metaknowledge is fun if the game provides a minimal structure and depth of quest lines. Honestly guys, tell me that thinking 'i can do both quests by antagonistic npcs if i start this one, interrupt it, and start the other one' isn't fun. Or many other examples. It's not all about foreknowledge, (even if it helps).
 

mondblut

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
22,178
Location
Ingrija
Powergame and min/max are cool, maybe is what cRPG's are all about. Unless we metagame. If we start to chase faqs and cheesy tactics/builds all over the internet, we break the game, and all the fun will be lost.

We write faqs and cheesy tactcs/builds all over the internet. :obviously:
 
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
5,866
A lot of people are just afraid to fail and therefore they seek foreknowledge of the game before starting to play. I see a lot of this, especially with newer players.

It used to be a common thing to restart the game a few times once you got the hang of its systems, but we live in the age of instant gratification (and instant videos of people breaking/trivializing every game on YouTube), so anything less than optimal is oftentimes perceived as unacceptable for people playing the game. I've seen this a lot recently on the Codex, even people getting into a simple and carefree series like Might and Magic. They ask all sorts of optimization questions (i.e. which party is optimal? Which magic schools are the best?) before even starting.

I think some of it has to do with the popularity of (team-based) multiplayer games and how not doing things optimally from the very outset in those contexts is looked down on. For example, you're expected to know how to play your character optimally in Dota even if it's one of the most complex games ever, you're expected to know exactly how a dungeon works in WoW without ever having been there, etc. This must be responsible for at least some level of conditioning in new players that spills over to single player games as well, and goes beyond simple munchkinism.

For myself, I like my first playthrough of games to be as 'clean' as possible, but I certainly read up on other experiences (especially here) once I've gotten a few hours in. Most games (and more and more nowadays) aren't that stingy when it comes to optimization; some common sense goes a long way. Most people don't like to think, though, and just want a clear and unmistakable path to the "I win" button. That's why a lot of first-time players of BG2 will roll a Kensai/Mage and edit their attributes, or a lot of first-time players of BG1 will go for a Ranger/Cleric.

Figuring out an optimized path to victory is fun, but blindly following a guide is anything but.
 
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Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
5,866
the fun is breaking the game
To an extent, but the problem is that a lot of people just follow recipes they've read somewhere and replicate winning strategies, they don't come up with them on their own. I think they rob themselves of the fun of playing games by doing that.
 

Delterius

Arcane
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
15,956
Location
Entre a serra e o mar.
the fun is breaking the game
To an extent, but the problem is that a lot of people just follow recipes they've read somewhere and replicate winning strategies, they don't come up with them on their own. I think they rob themselves of the fun of playing games by doing that.
I think the worst problem is that you end up with a tunnel vision. Ever relying on that winning strategy and barely reiterating.

If you don't know shit whatsoever about the game you're playing and you don't see yourself replaying it 7 times, you may read things here and there. But don't let that limit you.
 

DalekFlay

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 5, 2010
Messages
14,118
Location
New Vegas
I do the opposite and choose a character type, as in story-wise, then choose upgrades/stats that match that type. It might be easy to max endurance with a slinky thieving assassin in a game, but I usually avoid it unless there's literally nothing else to put points into. I want my glass cannons to be just that. I know a lot of people play RPGs more as stat puzzles and that's cool, but call me a larping storyfag I guess.
 

Freddie

Savant
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Messages
717
Location
Mansion
No, but I don't ever make my first playthrough on hardest difficulty.

I gotta say though it has it needs. I still haven't finished my playthrough of Buck Rogers: Matrix Cubed. I imported party from Countdown to Doomsday I created with PnP style. Is Matrix Cubed that difficult? No, but I don't recall I encountered that much trash mobs in any other Gold Box games. It's really tedious and I don't look badly towards anyone who metagames to get better experience in situation like that.
 

Lurker47

Savant
Joined
Jul 30, 2017
Messages
721
Location
Texas
Metagaming is the world's gayest thing. It leads to decline in game design. I like how the vast majority of my characters are pretty awfully made; it gives them more charm.
 

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