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KickStarter Xenonauts 2 - now available on Early Access

warci

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The whole xcom wannabe buch can straight up suck my dick. Really, how hard can it be to faithfully remake a game from 20 years ago, and if you're feeling REALLY generous: add some more stuff to it (or at least change the retarded intercepting 'minigame'). Even for a cynical old fart like me, every time anyone announces something like this my hype levels go up ta a 100, but I get fucked over EVERY SINGLE TIME FAKFAKFAK
 

Haba

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Well, at least they were honest about the intended changes beforehand.

In the end I didn't back the project because of them. I thoroughly enjoyed Xenonauts, but I have serious doubts on how Xeno2 direction will sit with me. I'll wait this one out.
 

Raghar

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The whole xcom wannabe buch can straight up suck my dick. Really, how hard can it be to faithfully remake a game from 20 years ago, and if you're feeling REALLY generous: add some more stuff to it (or at least change the retarded intercepting 'minigame'). Even for a cynical old fart like me, every time anyone announces something like this my hype levels go up ta a 100, but I get fucked over EVERY SINGLE TIME FAKFAKFAK
You should ask how hard its it to make game that was made by few programmers 20+ years ago...

The answer is millennials.
 

Falksi

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Tried the beta for about 30 minutes just to see how it looks.

Some differences I noticed from Xenonauts:
  • You only get one base. While you can build small outposts with radar and hangers. Your main base has the 2D cut out thing like from nuXcom. Looks like you have very limited space for building.
  • Strength stat seem to be removed. So now everyone can carry the same amount. Not sure why this was removed. Bad streamlining in my opinion.
  • The icons when equipping soldiers are very big. You have to scroll a lot to go through all the different kind of magazines (on 1080p at least).
  • To get to the soldier equip screen in the first place you have to go through the helicopter placement thingy. So you can't go to armory directly anymore it seems.
  • When you hire new soldiers there is only a picture and their last name, no information on what stats they have.
  • You can create "profitable goods" with your engineers which you can sell to make money apparently. It says it's placeholder. I don't know how I feel about this though.
  • Feels like everything is scaled down. Like the engineer and laboratory can only take 6 each. The sleeping quarters for soldiers only have room for 5, and now that you have less space building...
  • Combat feels okay, basically how it was on the GoG test thing. I do think that the aliens can take a little too much damage. They survive a 40mm grenade with ease. The removal for bonus accuracy for kneeling is just lame. If it was me I would add stuff instead, like going prone.

The base thing I can live with, but the rest of the adjustments sound flat out fucktarded.

I have to be honest and say that I kinda enjoyed Xenonauts 1, but ultimately it was a more boring & lacking version of X-Com. It did however have the potential to be built on it, but from what I've read & what I've seen this sequel doesn't seem to have made any significant improvements at all.

Folk don't seem to "get" X-Com. X-com was mint because you were always on edge, and it was superb at stirring feelings such as excitement via discover, panic via chaos, and triumph via survival etc. Xenonauts rarely did that, it just felt like a more tweaked/polish tactical version of X-Com without the emotional weight or tension.

They're really gonna have to sort this out to make it worth a purchase.
 
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Boy, glad I dodged that bullet! Didn't read too much about Xeno2, so I was under the impression that it was suppossed to be an expanded and refined version of the first game...when did they change course?
 

ArchAngel

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Boy, glad I dodged that bullet! Didn't read too much about Xeno2, so I was under the impression that it was suppossed to be an expanded and refined version of the first game...when did they change course?
Sometime before KS when they decided to go more mainstream.
 

baud

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Boy, glad I dodged that bullet! Didn't read too much about Xeno2, so I was under the impression that it was suppossed to be an expanded and refined version of the first game...when did they change course?
Sometime before KS when they decided to go more mainstream.

Which seems stupid since it means they'll go against nuXCOM and all the clones instead of just an old game (and OpenX-Com).
 

ArchAngel

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Boy, glad I dodged that bullet! Didn't read too much about Xeno2, so I was under the impression that it was suppossed to be an expanded and refined version of the first game...when did they change course?
Sometime before KS when they decided to go more mainstream.

Which seems stupid since it means they'll go against nuXCOM and all the clones instead of just an old game (and OpenX-Com).
They are not going to go that much mainstream. Combat is still going to mostly be like Xeno 1.
 

Father Foreskin

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This will never be as generic nuXcom clone as Phoenix Point. Your feeble attempts like just one base will never go the distance. Julian Gollop is the real clone god, this game looks like you play it with a mouse.
 

ArchAngel

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This will never be as generic nuXcom clone as Phoenix Point. Your feeble attempts like just one base will never go the distance. Julian Gollop is the real clone god, this game looks like you play it with a mouse.
My guess is that by the time both games are finished PP is going to play and feel more like old Xcom.
It is not enough to just implement some mechanics like old Xcom to make it play and feel like Xcom, just like we learned with Pillars and IE games.
Xeno 1 only resembled old Xcom but didn't really play like one and it certainly didn't feel like it. With Xeno 2 they are not making it more similar but even more different.
 

Goldhawk

Goldhawk Interactive
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It's fairly amusing to read the meltdown given that pretty much all I've been saying in every Kickstarter update is that the purpose of the early builds is purely to test that the game systems work. Balance and feature tweaks are for Early Access, because nobody cares about game balance or whatever tiny detail you can choose to pick out if they can't play for more than 10 minutes without the game crashing. This is laid out pretty clearly in the update you guys have copied at the top of this page and it's also displayed prominently when you boot the game up and when the demo times out (which is literally after 7 days of Geoscape play, to further reinforce that this isn't meant to be a game that you actually play).

Ultimately I don't really care too much because I'm sure everyone will re-evaluate their opinions once the game is done, but you guys will jump all over a game if it's badly tested or badly balanced on release ... which means you probably also shouldn't wildly extrapolate from playing an early beta marked "LITERALLY JUST FOR TESTING PURPOSES".

EDIT - for clarity, I'm genuinely not annoyed when I write this (despite the use of caps). I just think we've been incredibly clear in our messaging and I know a number of devs who refuse to test their games publicly specifically because people jump to conclusions about it - and that just ends up with their game being worse than it could be when released. I don't think that's a trend you guys should encourage.
 
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Alienman

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I just reported what I noticed. And I do know that it's for early day testing, so stuff can and will of course change. But doesn't beta usually mean that stuff are feature complete in general, like the base thing.
 

ArchAngel

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It's fairly amusing to read the meltdown given that pretty much all I've been saying in every Kickstarter update is that the purpose of the early builds is purely to test that the game systems work. Balance and feature tweaks are for Early Access, because nobody cares about game balance or whatever tiny detail you can choose to pick out if they can't play for more than 10 minutes without the game crashing. This is laid out pretty clearly in the update you guys have copied at the top of this page and it's also displayed prominently when you boot the game up and when the demo times out (which is literally after 7 days of Geoscape play, to further reinforce that this isn't meant to be a game that you actually play).

Ultimately I don't really care too much because I'm sure everyone will re-evaluate their opinions once the game is done, but you guys will jump all over a game if it's badly tested or badly balanced on release ... which means you probably also shouldn't wildly extrapolate from playing an early beta marked "LITERALLY JUST FOR TESTING PURPOSES".

EDIT - for clarity, I'm genuinely not annoyed when I write this (despite the use of caps). I just think we've been incredibly clear in our messaging and I know a number of devs who refuse to test their games publicly specifically because people jump to conclusions about it - and that just ends up with their game being worse than it could be when released. I don't think that's a trend you guys should encourage.
If you think this is a meltdown stay away from Phoenix Point topic... :D
You are cool and all but you are not Gollop, people expect less from your game :)
 
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Strength stat seem to be removed.
You can create "profitable goods" with your engineers which you can sell to make money apparently.
The removal for bonus accuracy for kneeling is just lame.

The other stuff is only Questionable (tm) for the time being, but these things are just straight up stupid. Especially the approved and encouraged engineering of "profitable goods".

lol Profitable Goods

Selling shit in the original was fantasntic, because it showed how strapped for funds X-COM was, that it had to sell laser guns and xeno cadavers to keep in the black. It was one of those "I didn't know I could do that" things that just opens new avenues in the first play.
They even troll in Apocalypse, by having other factions buy your shit and use it kill you.
 

Goldhawk

Goldhawk Interactive
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I just reported what I noticed. And I do know that it's for early day testing, so stuff can and will of course change. But doesn't beta usually mean that stuff are feature complete in general, like the base thing.

Yup, I know. I guess the issue is that if you post that stuff up without the context of how the build is plastered in warnings about how things aren't final, it makes it easier for everyone else to leap to incorrect conclusions. The base stuff is very much not final (that's mentioned in the update at the top of this page) because it's very difficult to test new mechanics until you've got most of the game working.

I'm actually not surprised some people have reservations about the proposed base system, but we may as well finish the system we're currently working on and test it in the game before we consider the merits relative what was in X1. Maybe we keep it, maybe we drop it, maybe we figure out some new hybrid system that has the best of both worlds - I don't know yet. Right now though I'm mostly interested in whether building rooms in the base actually works, and hiring staff is correctly limited by Living Capacity and all that sorta stuff.

If you think this is a meltdown stay away from Phoenix Point topic... :D
You are cool and all but you are not Gollop, people expect less from your game :)

Heh, yeah. I do occasionally flick through that thread and it's pretty savage. But if they deliver a good final product at the end of it I'm sure all will be forgotten - and if anyone can, Julian Gollop can.

lol Profitable Goods

Selling shit in the original was fantasntic, because it showed how strapped for funds X-COM was, that it had to sell laser guns and xeno cadavers to keep in the black. It was one of those "I didn't know I could do that" things that just opens new avenues in the first play.
They even troll in Apocalypse, by having other factions buy your shit and use it kill you.

Indeed, I'm surprised people didn't like the idea of selling goods for profit - it's not something that will be in the final game, but quite a lot of people complained about it being absent from X1. In this case it's just here for the first build so we can have two engineering projects and players can test the project queue functionality (which was wise, given people rapidly discovered quite a nasty crash we had no idea was there).
 

udm

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For now.
 

Haba

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Selling shit in the original was fantasntic, because it showed how strapped for funds X-COM was, that it had to sell laser guns and xeno cadavers to keep in the black. It was one of those "I didn't know I could do that" things that just opens new avenues in the first play.
They even troll in Apocalypse, by having other factions buy your shit and use it kill you.

That's one of things I'd improve upon, if I was making an X-Com game. Are you selling your products on the black market? Who are the buyers? What are the consequences for selling alien tech? Will not-X-Com get caught by the nations of the world if you sell too much? What happens when they do find out?
 

CthuluIsSpy

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One of the things I liked about Xenonauts is how they kept the inventory selling thing like in the original, but they designed it so that you don't break the economy.
They even added some of that flavor in the tactical battles, with local military and law enforcement wielding laser weapons.
 

agris

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New KS update, #17.

Update 17 said:
Happy new year everyone, I hope you all had a great holiday season! It's time for another quick update on our progress and plans for Xenonauts-2.

We're currently working on the Closed Beta V2 series of builds. We've penciled in the 23rd January as the release date for V2, but this may slip a little - new features sometimes also bring new bugs that cause delays. In any case, we'll be sending out another update when it does go live.

The focus for V2 is to expand the playable content a bit and see if anything major breaks when you start to play multiple missions, and to start testing long-term systems like the soldier progression. We're also laying some of the foundations for the V3 series of builds, when we'll finally start considering the gameplay experience and game balance!

In other news, we're also hiring for a couple of roles:

These new hires should help us generate more content more quickly in preparation for our planned Early Access launch in March, and if you're interested in applying for either of them (or know someone that might be) then please check out the links.

Finally, I just wanted to say a big thankyou to everyone that took part in the closed beta testing for the V1 builds. We got a huge amount of constructive feedback and lots of really useful bug reports, and as a result we were able to fix about seventy different issues (including fifteen different crashes) across the two weeks we were pushing out updates.

That's pretty much exactly what we were hoping for from the Closed Beta, which is brilliant - so hopefully we'll see some of you back when V2 launches in the next week or two!

sser they're looking for a freelance writer
 
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Indeed, I'm surprised people didn't like the idea of selling goods for profit - it's not something that will be in the final game, but quite a lot of people complained about it being absent from X1. In this case it's just here for the first build so we can have two engineering projects and players can test the project queue functionality (which was wise, given people rapidly discovered quite a nasty crash we had no idea was there).

Actually we do like selling - as in, selling actual alien technology and such, not generic "profitable goods".
 

sser

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New KS update, #17.

Update 17 said:
Happy new year everyone, I hope you all had a great holiday season! It's time for another quick update on our progress and plans for Xenonauts-2.

We're currently working on the Closed Beta V2 series of builds. We've penciled in the 23rd January as the release date for V2, but this may slip a little - new features sometimes also bring new bugs that cause delays. In any case, we'll be sending out another update when it does go live.

The focus for V2 is to expand the playable content a bit and see if anything major breaks when you start to play multiple missions, and to start testing long-term systems like the soldier progression. We're also laying some of the foundations for the V3 series of builds, when we'll finally start considering the gameplay experience and game balance!

In other news, we're also hiring for a couple of roles:

These new hires should help us generate more content more quickly in preparation for our planned Early Access launch in March, and if you're interested in applying for either of them (or know someone that might be) then please check out the links.

Finally, I just wanted to say a big thankyou to everyone that took part in the closed beta testing for the V1 builds. We got a huge amount of constructive feedback and lots of really useful bug reports, and as a result we were able to fix about seventy different issues (including fifteen different crashes) across the two weeks we were pushing out updates.

That's pretty much exactly what we were hoping for from the Closed Beta, which is brilliant - so hopefully we'll see some of you back when V2 launches in the next week or two!

sser they're looking for a freelance writer
Thanks I'll take a look!
 

LESS T_T

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Codex 2014
Steam page:



Why Early Access?
“We are using Early Access to allow us to thoroughly test Xenonauts-2 and experiment with the features and balance of the game prior to release. This means the game will be a far more polished and enjoyable experience for everyone when it finally launches!

The community feedback we gained during the development of the first Xenonauts made a huge difference to the final quality of the game and we're looking forward to working with the community to make Xenonauts-2 as good as it can be!”

Approximately how long will this game be in Early Access?
“We are expecting the game to remain in Early Access for approximately six months - but it may be longer than that. We'll keep working on the game until we're happy with it!”

How is the full version planned to differ from the Early Access version?
“The final version of Xenonauts-2 will be a tough strategic and tactical challenge, but the Early Access is not yet at that level. We're working hard to improve and refine the gameplay, fix a lot of usability / stability issues, and add more content.

We'll be adding significant amounts of content in Early Access - more maps, more mission types, more equipment, more enemies, etc. The visuals of the game will also be polished and improved, and we'll be iterating on the interface to make it easier to use and nicer to look at!

Several parts of the game need further development and design work, hopefully in collaboration with our community - the AI is not particularly advanced yet, and there's several new strategic systems (e.g. the main base / air combat mechanics) that we need to to spend more time experimenting with!

Basically, we'll be spending the Early Access phase of development adding in missing features and content, and polishing what is already in place. There's a lot of work left to do, but it's much easier to do it when we have a community around the game reporting problems and giving us suggestions!”

What is the current state of the Early Access version?
“The current version of Xenonauts-2 is a playable but incomplete version of the final game, containing the strategy layer, the ground combat and a basic form of the new air combat. However you cannot yet play a full campaign as not all the content has been implemented.

The Early Access version of the game also includes some placeholder art and interface assets, often borrowed from the first Xenonauts. We'll be reworking these before final release!”

Will the game be priced differently during and after Early Access?
“The game will remain the same price throughout the Early Access period, but the price will increase when the game leaves Early Access.”

How are you planning on involving the Community in your development process?
“We welcome bug reports and feedback / suggestions on the game mechanics during the development process. This is best done on our community forums at http://www.goldhawkinteractive.com, but we will also check our Steam boards for feedback where possible.

The community feedback we receive is extremely valuable in polishing up the final gameplay experience, so don't be shy about sharing your thoughts!”
 

geno

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Februay update:
As February has come and gone, I think I owe everyone an update on our progress. Lots to discuss, but first I should mention that anyone that wants to stay informed about our progress and hear about the launch of the game can either sign up for our mailing list or wishlist us on Steam / GOG:

Early Access Launch & Beta Build V3:
We're planning to release another build in just over a week, on Tuesday 12th March, although this may slip if we encounter serious bugs when testing the build next week. This will be Closed Beta V3, the first build where we've actually started to consider the gameplay experience rather than just purely stability and functionality. The game hasn't magically transformed into something different overnight, but we've implemented some cool new features and we'll be starting discussing some of the bigger mechanical changes with the community when it releases.

I should also mention that our Early Access launch was due to happen at the end of this month, but unfortunately this is likely to be delayed by several months. We're hoping that this won't inconvenience our backers too much though - the remaining Kickstarter keys will be sent out at the end of this month as promised, and we're looking into alternative ways people who missed the Kickstarter can buy into the beta and still receive a Steam / GOG key when we launch into Early Access further down the line. I notice Phoenix Point are using Xsolla to run their beta but still grant a Steam/GOG key on release, so perhaps we can do something similar...

The reason for this is simple - we don't think the game is polished enough or has enough content for an Early Access launch. Any negative reviews we receive now will last forever and potentially reduce sales for the entire lifetime of the game, and as our finances are still relatively solid there's not really any need for us to risk it happening to us.

Features & Improvements:
There's actually a lot of new stuff coming in Build V3 - we're adding new maps and mission types, bringing the Sebillians in, updating the base structure mechanics, finishing off the soldier generation / hiring code, adding "strategic operations" to the Geoscape, and more.

Our new design assistant has spent the last month working on the maps, and we're hoping to add the first Alien Base and Terror missions into V3 along with a lot more UFO crash site variants for each biome. All of this will require additional polishing in the future (e.g. the Alien Base maps have some weird fog of war interactions, and it's pretty obvious we need some wall-hiding functionality to make navigation easier) but I'm pleased with the progress we're making in this area.

We've also added two types of Sebillians to the game. People who have been here a while may remember the big bulky Sebillians that appeared in the free builds over a year ago; those guys are now called Sebillian Brutes. They are now accompanied by the old Sebillians from the first game (now called Sebillian Warriors). I've not really balanced the stats yet, but idea is to add a bit more variety to the race - the Warriors are a bit less resilient than they were in X1 but are better shots at range, whereas the Brutes have a LOT of health and carry heavy weapons or melee weapons.

The Main Base has also been updated to support a grid-based construction method that allows structures of different dimensions rather than having several "slots" of predefined size which you could place any building into. This sounds like quite a small change on paper, but given buildings now come in different sizes in practice the base feels a lot more freeform and complex compared to how it did in previous builds. We're still updating the art to match the new style and there's a few mechanics I'd still like to experiment with, but this topic is something we'll cover in more detail once V3 comes out.

The soldier generation updates represent us finishing the work required to move the game over from only allowing the hiring of specific soldiers to being able to generate unlimited numbers of soldiers with the appropriate nationalities, genders, names, ethnicities and portraits. The soldier generation system in X1 was actually a very complex beast but we've pretty much finished recreating it; in practice that means the soldier hire pool now refreshes with each funding report and you get to see the stats of your soldiers before you hire them like you could in the original game.

The final feature I'm going to talk about are Strategic Operations, which are still experimental right now. They've gone through several iterations in the past and are the current incarnation of the "Geoscape Agent" system; the idea that you can send your soldiers out to interact with the local regions to improve your strategic situation. They exist as points of interest on the Geoscape that you can send soldiers to, and after a certain period of time those soldiers will complete the Strategic Operation and claim the rewards. Although the operations only take a few days to complete, the travel time is counted from the closest Geoscape airbase - so if you've got no bases anywhere near South America, it'll take you a long time to reach and complete a strategic operation in Brazil.

At the moment we're only using these for positive effects (e.g. they're how you recruit Scientists / Engineers), but I'd like to incorporate some of the alien activity into this system too. For example - certain alien missions might spawn "Infiltrators" on the Geoscape, which would be Strategic Operations that reduce your relations with the local region. Sending a team to go and complete the Infiltrators mission (i.e. neutralize the infiltrators) would remove it from the Geoscape, but obviously deprives you of those soldiers for a certain amount of time. The idea is just to make the Geoscape less empty between waves of alien activity; you'll have some small teams of soldiers moving around the world gathering resources or cleaning up after the aliens. I'll be creating a thread to discuss this mechanic when V3 comes out too.

There's actually a lot more to talk about, but this post is already getting very long so I'll just cut it off here. Progress is good, the next build isn't far away, and I'll be asking your opinions on several big topics soon!
smile.png.d1802ccf9b5c412f23a09006fa9249ab.png

Some interesting points, like the changes on base building or the new stuff for Geoscape.
 
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SenisterDenister

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Been playing the beta, myself. Seems promising. I'm not entirely a fan of having only one base of operations and production, but at least having numerous airbases around the world can assuage these feelings. In X-COM I always liked having a secondary base made solely for the purpose of churning out weaponry and armor, and I did the same in Xenonauts. The combat is better than the first xenonauts, as well. They took some lessons from X1 and even nu-COM like having roots and things to be used to climb up on higher planes. Just switching to a 3D engine seems like the best move. Looking forward to further progress.
 

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