Underrail: The Incline Awakens

[Trashos]

That said, I am not 100% happy with the leveling pace later in the game. Pace is quick in the beginning, but once we hit the 30 points requirement it becomes kinda slow. For example, at that point (and having already done the basic exploration of the big cities) I may explore large areas for a while and only find, say, 3 oddities. That's only 10% of the requirement to get to the next level, and it feels too slow. It is not bad, it's great, but it is not perfect.

But, assuming you've done all the side content up until that point and is now heading to the Institute, that place alone has enough leveling up past level 20, but not up until the level cap, at least ~30 points worth of oddities from the quests you can do there alone (and the oddities you could find along the way as you progress through the quests can help with leveling closer and closer to the cap). So I think the pace is still right, all the way until the end. Because even if you haven't hit the cap by the time you go down to DC, you could easily hit the cap by simply doing all the things there is to do down there.

Right, the progression works well as a whole on Oddity. I am focusing on the *pace* of the progression. Which is good, but not perfect.

Here is the order in which I do things (from memory):

1) first part before the game opens up and up until Junkyard, incl. whatever exploration I am allowed to do. Level up Pace: Great.
2) Visit the big cities for the many sweet Oddities lying around, do some quick side-quests. I am LV9-10 when I first see the Foundry, I am probably LV12 (maybe more) when I am done walking around Core City for the first time. Level up Pace: Very Fast and exciting.
3) Now I do some random exploring around Underrail and the underpassages, before I hit the cities main quests. The pace goes down considerably. Level Up Pace: OK, but feels slow in comparison to before.
4) Cities main quests. Level Up Pace: Good.
5) More exploring, along with the Protectorate and the Awesome Hidden Quest. Level Up Pace: Ok.
6) Final stage of exploring everything underground (Underrail proper/Underpassages): Level up Pace: Slow.
7) Exploring overground and hitting the Institute: Level up Pace: OK/Good.
8) DC. Level up Pace: Good (but it is the least of my concerns!).

The pace problems lie in stage (3) and mainly stage (6). Basically, exploration of Underrail and the Underpassages becomes less rewarding (I am talking strictly in terms of leveling up) the further you get into the game. It only gets better when you hit overground.

Not sure how you would improve upon this, given that:
- It is an open world-game.
- Whatever problem there is lies in optional side areas.

The only argument I am making is that the leveling up pace is not perfect. Maybe it is already as good as it could realistically be, I am not sure. However, it *is* a real problem, because it basically means that further into the game you only level up by doing proper quests.

EDIT: Maybe the game could benefit by a couple of more available leveling ups, provided strictly by Oddities found in exploration (and not replicated during quests). But this might hurt the game's balance for non-completionist playthroughs. So, it is a double-edged sword.

 

[Falksi]

That said, I am not 100% happy with the leveling pace later in the game. Pace is quick in the beginning, but once we hit the 30 points requirement it becomes kinda slow. For example, at that point (and having already done the basic exploration of the big cities) I may explore large areas for a while and only find, say, 3 oddities. That's only 10% of the requirement to get to the next level, and it feels too slow. It is not bad, it's great, but it is not perfect.

But, assuming you've done all the side content up until that point and is now heading to the Institute, that place alone has enough leveling up past level 20, but not up until the level cap, at least ~30 points worth of oddities from the quests you can do there alone (and the oddities you could find along the way as you progress through the quests can help with leveling closer and closer to the cap). So I think the pace is still right, all the way until the end. Because even if you haven't hit the cap by the time you go down to DC, you could easily hit the cap by simply doing all the things there is to do down there.

Right, the progression works well as a whole on Oddity. I am focusing on the *pace* of the progression. Which is good, but not perfect.

Here is the order in which I do things (from memory):

1) first part before the game opens up and up until Junkyard, incl. whatever exploration I am allowed to do. Level up Pace: Great.
2) Visit the big cities for the many sweet Oddities lying around, do some quick side-quests. I am LV9-10 when I first see the Foundry, I am probably LV12 (maybe more) when I am done walking around Core City for the first time. Level up Pace: Very Fast and exciting.
3) Now I do some random exploring around Underrail and the underpassages, before I hit the cities main quests. The pace goes down considerably. Level Up Pace: OK, but feels slow in comparison to before.
4) Cities main quests. Level Up Pace: Good.
5) More exploring, along with the Protectorate and the Awesome Hidden Quest. Level Up Pace: Ok.
6) Final stage of exploring everything underground (Underrail proper/Underpassages): Level up Pace: Slow.
7) Exploring overground and hitting the Institute: Level up Pace: OK/Good.
8) DC. Level up Pace: Good (but it is the least of my concerns!).

The pace problems lie in stage (3) and mainly stage (6). Basically, exploration of Underrail and the Underpassages becomes less rewarding (I am talking strictly in terms of leveling up) the further you get into the game. It only gets better when you hit overground.

Not sure how you would improve upon this, given that:
- It is an open world-game.
- Whatever problem there is lies in optional side areas.

The only argument I am making is that the leveling up pace is not perfect. Maybe it is already as good as it could realistically be, I am not sure. However, it *is* a real problem, because it basically means that further into the game you only level up by doing proper quests.

EDIT: Maybe the game could benefit by a couple of more available leveling ups, provided strictly by Oddities found in exploration (and not replicated during quests). But this might hurt the game's balance for non-completionist playthroughs. So, it is a double-edged sword.

Good little summary.

As well as all that I'd just like to have seen more C&C + story during exploration.

The atmosphere & combat is brilliant, and I'd love a sequel which built on all it's strengths.

 

[damager]

What is this mysterious awesome hidden quest?

 

[Trashos]

What is this mysterious awesome hidden quest?

Oh, I was talking about

Spoiler

the Oculus quest, an extension of the Abram/Quicksilver questline.

 

[Black Angel]

Not sure how you would improve upon this, given that:
- It is an open world-game.
- Whatever problem there is lies in optional side areas.

The only argument I am making is that the leveling up pace is not perfect. Maybe it is already as good as it could realistically be, I am not sure. However, it *is* a real problem, because it basically means that further into the game you only level up by doing proper quests.

Your post is indeed a good little summary, and I won't deny any of it. However, I think the considerably slowed down leveling up is because the areas for exploration are YUGE, and therefore only an absolute madlad would be able to remember exactly where all the oddities are. Other than that, it's also meant to keep the level of challenge at a considerable level (still challenging while not outright impossible) based on all the content you've *supposedly* done so far, unless you're fully prepared to face them while underleveled. How could anyone be underleveled? Say you swap stage (4) with (6), and thus making stage (3)-(5) all about the side contents and random exploration. Depends on where you're exploring, you *might* be underleveled, but if you're lucky or just that good as a player, you could actually complete certain content and get out of it packed with XP and loot. Could this resulted in you being overleveled for cities's contents? Maybe. But, theoretically, most of the time people would be hit by a brick wall when exploring while underleveled, and any sane mind would instead go back to finish main content so that they'll be ready for those challenges on the side.

Other than that, I think how one would progress their XP gain through random exploration kind of depends on how good they're (both the players and the characters) and also depends on the players themselves. I'd assume you're doing random exploration in one big sweeping movement before and after experiencing main contents, that might actually what resulted in considerably slowed down progression. Have you tried doing the side content/random exploration while on your way to the main content/main cities? Say, you're going from SGS to Core City. Then, as you do, you explore the caves and the passages and the underpassages. Or Foundry. And when you're going from Core City to the Institute, you do random exploration of the Upper Underrail by going the other way around and end up at the Institute from the opposite direction (I vaguely remembered the map of Upper Underrail kind of designed in a loop). I remembered doing it this way, so all the leveling up are done as I accumulate oddities from exploration to complement the XP gain from quests and vice versa.

 

[Trashos]

Black Angel, good post!

I think how one would progress their XP gain through random exploration kind of depends on how good they're (both the players and the characters) and also depends on the players themselves. I'd assume you're doing random exploration in one big sweeping movement before and after experiencing main contents, that might actually what resulted in considerably slowed down progression. Have you tried doing the side content/random exploration while on your way to the main content/main cities? Say, you're going from SGS to Core City. Then, as you do, you explore the caves and the passages and the underpassages. Or Foundry. And when you're going from Core City to the Institute, you do random exploration of the Upper Underrail by going the other way around and end up at the Institute from the opposite direction

Right, I have been thinking that the progression pace may have been calibrated with the order you are mentioning in mind. However, what veteran player is going to approach the game like that? It is not about being good or bad. Since UR is a challenging game, the sane thing to do is to go for the easy points before going for the hard points. I play like that, and I expect that most veterans must be playing like that. Also, visiting all cities before getting tied down into elaborate quests/exploration gives access to additional merchants, so it is really a no-brainer for the veteran.

So while I have considered the order you are proposing, there is no way that I am going to use it. There are many easy to grab oddities in Foundry and Core City, and the optimal way to proceed is definitely by grabbing them before doing anything else.

You may have found the root of the problem, though.

 

[Black Angel]

Right, I have been thinking that the progression pace may have been calibrated with the order you are mentioning in mind. However, what veteran player is going to approach the game like that? It is not about being good or bad. Since UR is a challenging game, the sane thing to do is to go for the easy points before going for the hard points. I play like that, and I expect that most veterans must be playing like that. Also, visiting all cities before getting tied down into elaborate quests/exploration gives access to additional merchants, so it is really a no-brainer for the veteran.

So while I have considered the order you are proposing, there is no way that I am going to use it. There are many easy to grab oddities in Foundry and Core City, and the optimal way to proceed is definitely by grabbing them before doing anything else.

You may have found the root of the problem, though.

That's a good point. I'm, like I mentioned few times in the past, unfortunately haven't experienced UR on Hard at least. It means I'm not exactly a veteran player, especially since I've only finished the game twice so far. If I have to say though, especially in case of playing on Dominating, accomplishing easy tasks to gain levels quickly is indeed the most obvious thing to do before facing the challenging parts. And it'd be better to play on classic XP too, in that case. Since the difficulty is much, much harder, it's actually fine to get to the max level as fast as possible, since the game will be still very challenging even if you got there.

However, if you're playing on Normal *and* Oddity, then the logical way to play the game is the way I'm proposing. Because no veteran players will be looking for challenges playing on Normal, while Normal+Oddity is the way to just play the game the comfy way, if you just want to enjoy the other best things that the game has to offer other than the combat. It's also an opportunity to try playing completely different playstyle, and even doing something quite unorthodox (like Fenix's stealthy sledgehammer build, although Fenix himself is a veteran player who actually managed to get very far with that build while playing on (iirc) Hard).

 

[Fenix]

The war between those who break an egg from a blunt end and those who break an egg from a sharp end - the real Swift.

Yeah, it was before Domination was introduced, my char currently at Institute.

 

[Sykar]

Remind me, does Uncanny Dodge work on spent skill points or does it use the effective skill score to determine how many times you can dodge?

 

[Black Angel]

Remind me, does Uncanny Dodge work on spent skill points or does it use the effective skill score to determine how many times you can dodge?

http://www.underrail.com/wiki/index.php?title=Uncanny_Dodge

It only says "plus an additional attack for each 30 points in Dodge.", and the wiki further explained "Due to the feat's skill requirement, it will always dodge at least 3 attacks.". So I think it's safe to assume it use the effective skill score, unless Styg or epeli state otherwise.

 

[Sykar]

Good, good then Uncanny Dodge is still worth it on my new pure Sniper build.
http://underrail.info.tm/build/?GQUGCgMOAwXChx4AACgywodqUgAAbm4AbgAAAABDADYBOR0WNRlHQTNLKDcCJA

 

[Black Angel]

What I'm wondering now is if skill bonus gained from equipment like Siphoner leather armor and Tabi boots will count toward the extra dodge. Does it, epeli ?

 

[HoboForEternity]

I haven't really played the game with oddities yet. Still waiting for expacs

 

[FeelTheRads]

Who the hell even said anything about realism?

The worst thing about it is in fact that it's way more grind inducing than classic XP. I can't imagine how one can say that it prevents grinding when by its very design it does the exact opposite. Everything you do could give you some XP. But only "could". So most of the time you don't even get rewarded for the grind. It's just all around SHIT.

But hey, it's BANALCED!!! Must be great.

There is little to no grind during Oddity, stop spouting bullshit. Except for less than a handful of Oddities you have like 30%-50% drop chances, in some cases you get guaranteed drops like Ancient Rathound Tooth. Furthermore most oddities from creatures are capped usually at 2-3. There are like three which offer 4 and some offer only one. The most annoying to get is the Cave Hopper Dragon Tail and you can easily go without.
What is more Oddity CAPS the experience you can gain and even if you miss a creature oddity or two you will get to max level still because so much more is gained from quests and exploration that the gains from creatures is overall low. In some cases you will be almost guaranteed to get most if not all oddities like the Serrated Bladeling Blades during the Beast quest, PSI Beetles can be easily gotten during Newton and Arena quest, Same goes for Rathounds, in GMC, Burrowers are easily gotten from Hathor Mine and Arena. Siphoners is the only real annoying one because of the low drop chance and because they are not really tied to a particular quest and the drop chances are low. But even missing out all 4 experience points from Siphoners, it is a miniscule amount compared to the hundreds of experience points you get from everything else.
So literally Oddity DISCOURAGES grind and invites exploration.

You're an idiot. You just equate grinding with combat.

No, the oddity system encourages grinding of all kinds. From dumpster diving to combat. You can't really know what will give you some oddity, not the first time you play it, for sure, so you just have to try it and see. And most of the time it's a disappointment because you don't get anything.
Wow, what an amazing system. Do shit for nothing. But it's BANALCED!

What you're calling "inviting exploration" is actually "forcing".

But why the fuck is it fine to be "invited" to explore, but not "invited" to fight in the classic system? Not that the oddity system doesn't "invite" you to fight.

 

[Black Angel]

You're an idiot. You just equate grinding with combat.

No, the oddity system encourages grinding of all kinds. From dumpster diving to combat. You can't really know what will give you some oddity, not the first time you play it, for sure, so you just have to try it and see. And most of the time it's a disappointment because you don't get anything.
Wow, what an amazing system. Do shit for nothing. But it's BANALCED!

What you're calling "inviting exploration" is actually "forcing".

But why the fuck is it fine to be "invited" to explore, but not "invited" to fight in the classic system? Not that the oddity system doesn't "invite" you to fight.

Have you tried playing the game on Oddity *normally*? That is, just try doing quests, occasionally explore side areas only opening locked containers (because chances are, locked containers contain something worthy to loot), NOT grind combat for low drop oddities, and NOT try opening literally every single garbage cans and barrels like a literal hobo.

I tried playing like that, and it was fine. I never felt like I'm desperately in need for XP because I gained enough from completing quests, complemented by stuff I happen to find along the way.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Have you tried playing the game on Oddity *normally*? That is, just try doing quests, occasionally explore side areas only opening locked containers (because chances are, locked containers contain something worthy to loot), NOT grind combat for low drop oddities, and NOT try opening literally every single garbage cans and barrels like a literal hobo.

Well, really, now it's about how you play it not about how it's a perfect system that "invites" you to do stuff?

In that case have you tried playing classic "normally"? Because never once have I felt the need to grind. And I could tell most of the time that I won't waste my time by doing something because I'll actually get something out of it, a thing that doesn't happen with oddity.

So as far as I'm concerned if you say classic requires grinding then so does oddity.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

In my opinion oddity superior to "classic" system, it's just more interesting in my opinion, since with oddity system it's actually worth to check inventories of defeated foes, while with classic system you likely skip looting since you end up with pockets full of money anyway. And according my calculations you level up faster with classic and this can become a problem if you reach final levels in middle of the game.

 

[Black Angel]

Well, really, now it's about how you play it not about how it's a perfect system that "invites" you to do stuff?

That's Sykar's opinion, not mine. I never say anything about Oddity inviting you to do stuff.

In that case have you tried playing classic "normally"? Because never once have I felt the need to grind. And I could tell most of the time that I won't waste my time by doing something because I'll actually get something out of it, a thing that doesn't happen with oddity.

So as far as I'm concerned if you say classic requires grinding then so does oddity.

Never did I say anything about classic inviting you to grind. But the reality is on classic, you gain most XP from killing stuff. Try playing a less-combative build on classic, like a thief or a talker build, and see how it goes. No sane mind would try accumulating classic XP solely/mostly from lockpicking, hacking, and pickpocketing.

Meanwhile, your argument is that for some reason, you desperately need to get that low-drop oddities, 'cause otherwise (presumably) you would be underleveled or something. But the truth is that on Oddity, there are far more oddities than you need to reach the level cap, but the oddities themselves are sprinkled across the gameworld and carefully placed as to not make players becoming severely underleveled or vastly outleveled; and instead, as players accumulate XP, whether through questing or oddities, they'll always be exactly at the levels where they can find the next content still challenging and not outright impossible.

 

[Sykar]

Who the hell even said anything about realism?

The worst thing about it is in fact that it's way more grind inducing than classic XP. I can't imagine how one can say that it prevents grinding when by its very design it does the exact opposite. Everything you do could give you some XP. But only "could". So most of the time you don't even get rewarded for the grind. It's just all around SHIT.

But hey, it's BANALCED!!! Must be great.

There is little to no grind during Oddity, stop spouting bullshit. Except for less than a handful of Oddities you have like 30%-50% drop chances, in some cases you get guaranteed drops like Ancient Rathound Tooth. Furthermore most oddities from creatures are capped usually at 2-3. There are like three which offer 4 and some offer only one. The most annoying to get is the Cave Hopper Dragon Tail and you can easily go without.
What is more Oddity CAPS the experience you can gain and even if you miss a creature oddity or two you will get to max level still because so much more is gained from quests and exploration that the gains from creatures is overall low. In some cases you will be almost guaranteed to get most if not all oddities like the Serrated Bladeling Blades during the Beast quest, PSI Beetles can be easily gotten during Newton and Arena quest, Same goes for Rathounds, in GMC, Burrowers are easily gotten from Hathor Mine and Arena. Siphoners is the only real annoying one because of the low drop chance and because they are not really tied to a particular quest and the drop chances are low. But even missing out all 4 experience points from Siphoners, it is a miniscule amount compared to the hundreds of experience points you get from everything else.
So literally Oddity DISCOURAGES grind and invites exploration.

You're an idiot. You just equate grinding with combat.

No, the oddity system encourages grinding of all kinds. From dumpster diving to combat. You can't really know what will give you some oddity, not the first time you play it, for sure, so you just have to try it and see. And most of the time it's a disappointment because you don't get anything.
Wow, what an amazing system. Do shit for nothing. But it's BANALCED!

What you're calling "inviting exploration" is actually "forcing".

But why the fuck is it fine to be "invited" to explore, but not "invited" to fight in the classic system? Not that the oddity system doesn't "invite" you to fight.

 

[Strange Fellow]

People who go about opening and reopening every garbage can they come across in Oddity mode are idiots, and so are people who kill respawning rathounds over and over in Classic. The whole point of this kind of RPG is to do enjoyable stuff while accumulating XP, which unlocks more enjoyable stuff. Why on earth wouldn't you proceed to a new area as soon as you're strong enough to handle it? You're not competing against anyone. Your only objective is to squeeze as much fun out of the game as you can.

 

[Fenix]

UD work with equipment and drug boosts.
I got like 12 or somethig stacks of it, I remember switching to boxing gloves gives additional stacks.

 

[oneself]

to anyone testing the expansion: How good are the new weapons?

 

[ortucis]

Heh, the new update reminded me that I have to finish this game.. sometime this year.

When being sold by the player, items will now be valued at 50% on hard and 25% on dominating difficulty

Well that's one way of making the trading skill useful..

Hopefully fixed the bug that caused the window to lose focus when starting the game in full screen mode on some computers

I am mostly excited about this. Happens EVER FUCKING TIME I launch this game.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I am mostly excited about this. Happens EVER FUCKING TIME I launch this game.

This occurs on both laptops on which I play Underrail, two consequtive times.

 

[Blaine]

250MB Steam update.

Maybe this year... maybe....

https://store.steampowered.com/news/?appids=250520