Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Wolfe]

Well, that's one way to deal with them..

Grunker, I know what you mean about TWM, it was on a completely different level compared to vanilla, especially after update 3.0. I remember fondly some fights on Veteran, e.g. Concelhaut, the Alpine Dragon, Llengrath, those pesky monks that kept leaping, etc.

I've only played BG2 out of those games, ToEE is what I'll be playing next

 

[Grunker]

I actually thought that while Concelhaut was a high point oldschool roleplaying wise and his encounter had a lot of stuff going on he was a low point difficulty wise. Steamrolled it completely on Path of the Damned while everything else in Cragholdt and White March was a treat.

ToEE has a lot of great moments but you'll come to understand why Darth Roxor uses angry reacts only when someone says Bugbear

 

[Daidre]

I have played TOEE right after release when I was 12 yo. Only things I remember now is bugs, giant frogs and big blue lady in final fight. I still dont undestand how this easy and boring (back then) game became codex holy cow. Maybe I should try to revisit it is community patches...

 

[Thonius]

Because of TBS DnD combat. Duh. They made best system to date and used it to implement SHIT module.

 

[Incendax]

Do you guys remember or can you check what level you were while doing the Varnhold Vanishing stuff? I'm just doing the quests for barbarians and hit the level 12, feels like it's a bit too high.

About 11 on average.

 

[Grunker]

I have played TOEE right after release when I was 12 yo. Only things I remember now is bugs, giant frogs and big blue lady in final fight. I still dont undestand how this easy and boring (back than) game became codex holy cow. Maybe I should try to revisit it is community patches...

It's not holy for me, it's not even in my Top10, but the faithfuld implementation of the turn based OGL combat is pretty sweet, especially with modern patches. However you can't get around the fact that it has long strecthes of nothing and is basically just a big crawler with very little else to keep you occupied.

Also how the fuck could I forget Blackguards (the first) in my list of best encounter designs - Wolfe if encounter design is what you live for that game is HUGE. It's basically P&P Encounters: The Game. Really, really fun even if itemization is shit and the P&P system is kind of crap.

 

[Incendax]

Enemy melee units stick like glue to the first target they set their eyes upon, which is why having a tank is essential..

I'm not a code expert, but here is my fast and loose summary when I looked it over.

1. When an enemy misses = Increase X value.
2. When a PC deals damage = Increase Y value.
3. If (X - Y) is greater than [not a static value] = Choose new target.

It's more complex than that, but the gist is that pure brick tanks will quickly get ignored after a few misses. Damaging tanks will maintain aggro pretty decently. That would account for why some people have dramatically different experiences with their tanks, based on how they build them. BUT! The AI doesn't realize when it is going back and forth between TWO brick tanks, or one brick tank and a pile of summons.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

P&P system is kind of crap.

Talking shit about TDE while endorsing the "awesomeness" of Sawyers brainfarts. Irony off the scale.

 

[Grunker]

P&P system is kind of crap.

Talking shit about TDE while endorsing the "awesomeness" of Sawyers brainfarts. Irony off the scale.

Why are TDE-fans always so defensive? Is it the inferiority complex brought by the knowledge that GURPS did universality so much better and everyone else did the same for ~*FEELS*~?

 

[Grunker]

It's more complex than that, but the gist is that pure brick tanks will quickly get ignored after a few misses. Damaging tanks will maintain aggro pretty decently. That would account for why some people have dramatically different experiences with their tanks, based on how they build them. BUT! The AI doesn't realize when it is going back and forth between TWO brick tanks, or one brick tank and a pile of summons.

Not really. My Valerie didn't deal damage for the first few levels at all (she missed every attack) and though she does now, it's still 1/4 of what Amiri deals.

And even if we hold to the fact that targets may switch after 3 or 4 rounds, by that time the lethality of the combat has sort of made the point moot.

 

[Jaedar]

It's more complex than that, but the gist is that pure brick tanks will quickly get ignored after a few misses. Damaging tanks will maintain aggro pretty decently. That would account for why some people have dramatically different experiences with their tanks, based on how they build them. BUT! The AI doesn't realize when it is going back and forth between TWO brick tanks, or one brick tank and a pile of summons.

Not really. My Valerie didn't deal damage for the first few levels at all (she missed every attack) and though she does now, it's still 1/4 of what Amiri deals.

And even if we hold to the fact that targets may switch after 3 or 4 rounds, by that time the lethality of the combat has sort of made the point moot.

Enemies switch targets?

Don't think I ever saw that, except for when Valerie was in stationary mode.

 

[Incendax]

Yeah, in the early game Valerie tends to miss all of her attacks, which made the enemies switch targets very quickly. This was usually a death sentence from the 2x damage on Unfair. I usually had to keep my squishies reeeeeaaaally far back to prevent the switch onto them.

But it can be hilarious to see one target switching back and forth between two tanks over and over.

 

[Grunker]

Btw for those curious: yep, magic quivers seem to work with xbows.

 

[Shadenuat]

Enemy melee units stick like glue to the first target they set their eyes upon, which is why having a tank is essential..

I'm not a code expert, but here is my fast and loose summary when I looked it over.

1. When an enemy misses = Increase X value.
2. When a PC deals damage = Increase Y value.
3. If (X - Y) is greater than [not a static value] = Choose new target.

It's more complex than that, but the gist is that pure brick tanks will quickly get ignored after a few misses. Damaging tanks will maintain aggro pretty decently. That would account for why some people have dramatically different experiences with their tanks, based on how they build them. BUT! The AI doesn't realize when it is going back and forth between TWO brick tanks, or one brick tank and a pile of summons.

Makes sense why enemies switch on higher difficulties more often. Easy to see while trying to fight uber boars near Tristian in chapter 1 on Hard/Unfair with a tank and buffed amiri, where you have to manually disengage Amiri from combat multiple times because otherwise boar would aggro on her every turn due to difference in damage done.

 

[Grunker]

^ might be, but if so it's very weird there's no setting for enemy AI. I switched to Unfair now, will report back if enemy behaviour changes in the way suggested by Incendax.

 

[Grunker]

This game continues to stun me with the extend to which it adheres to P&P. You qualify for feats if you wear magic items with enhancement boni, lol. Though it doesn't follow the rule that you must have worn them for 24 hours.

 

[Jarpie]

This game continues to stun me with the extend to which it adheres to P&P. You qualify for feats if you wear magic items with enhancement boni, lol. Though it doesn't follow the rule that you must have worn them for 24 hours.

You have to keep wearing the equipment, as the feat goes inactive if you don't fill the requirements.

 

[Grunker]

This game continues to stun me with the extend to which it adheres to P&P. You qualify for feats if you wear magic items with enhancement boni, lol. Though it doesn't follow the rule that you must have worn them for 24 hours.

You have to keep wearing the equipment, as the feat goes inactive if you don't fill the requirements.

Yeah I know, it gets P&P right that far. It's really only the 24-hour requirement that's waivered, and that doesn't matter so much. Point is it lets me go Shield Bash + Two-Weapon Fighting chain with Valerie if I am so inclined.

 

[Grunker]

Whoever voiced Dugath needs to win some sort of award

EDIT: Seriously, I need this guy to be a companion instead of Amiri. PLEEEEASE

 

[Haplo]

Whoever voiced Dugath needs to win some sort of award

EDIT: Seriously, I need this guy to be a companion instead of Amiri. PLEEEEASE

Yeah, he's pretty cool. Has some sweet loot though :p

 

[Grunker]

I could never kill Brogath

 

[ArchAngel]

I could never kill Brogath

I cannot help it, in my last two playthroughs whatever options I choose he decides to attack me and die

 

[ga♥]

I could never kill Brogath

I cannot help it, in my last two playthroughs whatever options I choose he decides to attack me and die

If you killl the 3 defaced sisters, he doesn't attack you.

 

[ArchAngel]

I could never kill Brogath

I cannot help it, in my last two playthroughs whatever options I choose he decides to attack me and die

If you killl the 3 defaced sisters, he doesn't attack you.

First time I did this part I killed no sisters and he still didn't attack me. Neither of 3 runs I killed any sisters. Also first run one of the sisters was nice to me and later talked to me in that Nyrissa's place. In next two runs Dugath always attacks me and that one sister is no longer in Nyrissa's place.
First run was after patch 1.1, it is possible some bug caused it to work out that way...

 

[Grunker]

I can at least comfirm that he didn't kill me, and I killed the sisters... or, well, Amiri made the decision for me with one of them, so I thought I might as well finish the job.