Are rpgs inherently optimistic?

[Funposter]

RPGs are inherently optimistic because they actually feature character progression unlike real life

 

[vazha]

Cyanide/Spiders creations (GoT Rpg, Of Orcs and Men, first Styx, Technomancer) for all their flaws almost always offer pessimistic (bittersweet?) endings. GoT in particular excelled in that department as no matter how much you try all you can achieve is a half-victory at best.

And oh yes, Prelude to Darkness offers a delightedly misanthropic ending if you side with the rebels.

 

[Commissar Draco]

Grim Dawn is quite pessimistic you encounter far more of dead bodies, evil magic animated zombies and possessed than survivors and even when you do defeat big evil you are told that this is only the beginning of tribulations for your people and you are send to fight another crisis. Of course you do keep fighting and there is hope or maybe just the will to survive, you can save (or doom) some even help the communities of people who form the resistance of course so its not nihilistic and decadent the way AoD felt. Original Fallout endings were bitter sweet you were exiled from your Vault in first part and most of your village died in second but you to be come a founder of great City one which could even challenge tyranny of NCR and you do sire Bishop who will take over New Reno. So this is how it should be there're rewards for heroism but everything has its price.

 

[mondblut]

Anyway: Ultima VIII. You return back to Britannia only to find out it was thoroughly pwned in your absence.

Spoiler

Then again, the fact that this Mario platform-hopping crap is finally over is optimistic, so...

Also, Betrayal at Krondor to an extent. You win, but the protagonist dies in a struggle to keep the other guy from controlling the lifestone.

And diablow, of course, except that it is not an RPG.

 

[cherry blossom]

RPGs are inherently optimistic because they actually feature character progression unlike real life

Indeed. Regardless of the story, the setting, the choices, there is always the expectation of unhindered character advancement. Even under the worst circumstances, you will be expecting a level-up or otherwise gain skill/ability increases at some point and the games will fulfill that expectation. That your character will statistically grow without any hindrance is an unspoken promise.

Your character will make friends, lose friends, suffer wounds, have near-death experiences, suffer tragedies and yet, nothing of any of this will reflect on your character sheet, on your stats and on your choices. At most, some games will let you choose some disadvantages during character creation in exchange for other advantages but your character will never suffer anything, lose anything. You don't gain permanent disadvantages as a consequence of events befalling you. There are maybe only a handful of examples of this happening ever, hardly with any real significance.

The story, the setting, writing, all the best of it simply manipulate your emotions as the player and do nothing for your character. Therefore, RPGs are inherently optimistic on a mechanical gameplay level.

 

[aweigh]

in avengers the heroes try to stop thanos but fail

 

[Reinhardt]

JRPGs usually have lots of pessimistic endings if you don't trigger all events in correct order.

Like i played Cross Edge and half of the cast died in the end and main character was sent to another world and just forgot about their sacrifice because i missed one fucking Hot Springs scene.

 

[Harry Easter]

It's actually humans who are inherently optimisitic. At a biological level humans can't stop breathing, which is proof that humans want to live.

But is the want to survive the same as optimism? Optimism for me is "tomorrow it will be better" while surviving just means "well, still here. Just go on, then."

On the other hand, on closer looks most RPG's worlds are hellholes. Otherwise there wouldn't be a need for wandering looters and killers, that are put on the case, instead of the local militia. It got so bad, that you need expensive, bloodthirsty psychopaths to get through to the day. Those are the people with power, while the people in power make everything worse. It's a world, where those strong with arms and magic do whatever they want. And those are the heroes. Damn. We are screwed.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

It's actually humans who are inherently optimisitic. At a biological level humans can't stop breathing, which is proof that humans want to live.

The fact that humans need a biological mechanism prohibiting them from stooping breathing is proof that humans don't want to live.

Ha! You didn't expect that!

 

[laclongquan]

in avengers the heroes try to stop thanos but fail

And if there's no End Game portion, first the comic readers will rage so hard your comic company HQ get burned to the ground. Then the movie watchers will rage so hard dont expect to get paid viewers for your next film.

There is a delayed reaction awaiting how they make Endgame~

 

[Nifft Batuff]

Fallout 4 was a pretty pessimistic game. I fell in depression playing it and could not complete it.

More seriously, there are a bunch of notable pessimistic RPGs, and they (almost) tend to be good games: Planescape, Persona 2 & 3, Tyranny, Xenogear, Nier, Nier Automata, Dark Souls, Dwarf Fortress...

 

[Chippy]

Also, as others have said, it depends on where the RPG was made and by who. If we get a load of Californians, Swedes, Germans and Canadians making an RPG - they'll all most likely be lefties - who inherently think of group identity instead of individual identity. You have to wonder where that will leave the traditional RPG; or at least the differances we'll start to see from the games they make and the ones eastern Europe makes.

 

[NatureOfMan]

As others said Planescape comes to mind, especially if you don't bring the easily missable important plot item to the final area of the game. Otherwise it's a strange combination between optimistic and pessimistic - sure you are doomed to an eternity of battling in a neverending demonic war that's in a constant stalemate but at least you are finally at peace with yourself and as Dak'kon may put it - you finally *know* who you are.

Fallout's little "mini-endings" can also make you feel like shit especially when you didn't fix the ghouls' water pump or generally did jack all for the other town's problems such as that kidnapped girl you had to rescue. But that's just grasping at straws. Well there is also the fact that even though you saved your vault and probably the entire human race from the mutant menace, the Overseer tells you to kinda fuck off because people would apparently leave the vault when they hear about your tales, even though the Wasteland is barely a fucking paradise and definitely not a better alternative to the vault.

 

[naossano]

We are not playing the same rpg.

 

[Zakhad]

Occasionally when playing Diablo 2 I imagined my character explaining to my mercenary how her future was now an eternal recurring hellscape of war: "we will keep being reborn, if we die; we will fight these same enemies over and over, no matter how many times we defeat them. It will only get harder, and the only reward we get is more equipment with which to fight them. By hiring you, I have condemned you to this same cycle. Your only other choice is death. I would not blame you for choosing it."

 

[Neanderthal]

Occasionally when playing Diablo 2 I imagined my character explaining to my mercenary how her future was now an eternal recurring hellscape of war: "we will keep being reborn, if we die; we will fight these same enemies over and over, no matter how many times we defeat them. It will only get harder, and the only reward we get is more equipment with which to fight them. By hiring you, I have condemned you to this same cycle. Your only other choice is death. I would not blame you for choosing it."

Not playing hardcore, now that's tragic.

 

[Zakhad]

Occasionally when playing Diablo 2 I imagined my character explaining to my mercenary how her future was now an eternal recurring hellscape of war: "we will keep being reborn, if we die; we will fight these same enemies over and over, no matter how many times we defeat them. It will only get harder, and the only reward we get is more equipment with which to fight them. By hiring you, I have condemned you to this same cycle. Your only other choice is death. I would not blame you for choosing it."

Not playing hardcore, now that's tragic.

I play ARPGS to reduce my stress, not increase it.

 

[Neanderthal]

Ah I'm just being a cunt mate, forget it.

 

[Lord_Potato]

In KotOR evil ending the villain dies, but the Dark Side wins.

In Planescape Torment you are condemned to centuries long struggle in a hellish war.

In Witcher 3 if you play your cards wrong, you loose Ciri. And let's face it, beating the Wild Hunt was never the main theme of the game. It was a story about a father searching for his daughter. If you fuck it up, you kind of lost, even though you managed to complete the game.

In Heart of Stone expansion to W3 if you play your cards wrong or don't want to take a risk, you free yourself of Gaunter o'Dim, but he still wins by taking von Everec to hell.

In Blood and Wine expansion to Witcher 3 if you fuck up one dialogue and don't convince the evil sister to come to terms with the past, she will kill the duchess and then gets herself killed too. So you defeated the vampires, but left Toussaint in a really shitty situation.

Come to think of it, W3 creators make the best bad endings.

 

[Reinhardt]

Come to think of it, W3 creators make the best bad endings.

Lord_Potato
Location: Free City of Warsaw

 

[Lord_Potato]

Doesn't make it less true

 

[HoboForEternity]

Technomancer

i recently finished this and loved the ending. really bittersweet done well

 

[Null Null]

seriously we need radical change and subversion in gaming industry, more pessimism and maybe just then rpgs could become art.

Interesting that we require pessimism for art, no? I think that has more to do with the preferences of The New Yorker types who decide what art 'is'. Gotta be depressing and of course lefty!

Everyone 'important' looks down on Norman Rockwell for his generally positive depictions of midcentury American life...but people kept buying reproductions of his stuff. Similarly, Tolkien was ignored critically for his vaguely-Christian fantasies...until the resurrection of the fantasy genre he spawned became too big to ignore, and now famous authors admit to having played Dungeons & Dragons.

I'd say support what you support, like what you like, and let some Upper West Side latte-sipping snob say what they want. If you pay for it, they will make it.

 

[Sacred82]

you can absolutely defeat some end boss and then get ending slides that show you how much you fucked up the planet to get there.

optimistic or no

 

[Smoker]

Cyanide/Spiders creations (GoT Rpg, Of Orcs and Men, first Styx, Technomancer) .

Shit even Bound by Flame too. The game starts with the ritual to save the world failing and you have the option to become a demon to punish those that started the apocalypse. This is probably why I keep coming back to their AA games.