What game will best teach me how to enjoy RTwP combat?

[AshWednesday]

Hey, first of all I'm brand new here so if this thread is redundant feel free to direct me to answers elsewhere. I'm asking because this seems like the place where I'd get good answers but it's also probably a place people have asked similar questions before.

Anyway after recently enjoying Divinity:OS2 I've decided to kind of give myself the grand tour of cRPGs cause there's so many classic games I've been meaning to play, and now there's a whole revival movement of new games and I can feel the backlog swelling lol. For example I've never actually beaten Planescape Torment, Baldur's Gate 2, Fallout, etc.

But of course a lot of the genre is built around party-based RTwP combat, which doesn't come naturally to me because I'm 27 so I was a little too young to be playing those games when they came out. The formative RPG for me was Neverwinter Nights; I came up in the era where that formula was starting to go out of style.

I tried starting Baldur's Gate and I was frustrated by my early experiences with the combat, so I switched gears to Pillars of Eternity to see if a modern UI, etc. would provide a more comfortable beginner experience and it definitely does, but I'm still not quite convinced by the combat so I was wondering if I should just stick with it (I'm only a couple hours in) or if there's an obvious better choice for a first game to teach me and get me used to RTwP and show me how to have the most fun with it.

Especially because some of the games I want to play I know have clunky or shitty combat, and some of them I know are really deep/complex/obtuse, so I think starting with something that has accessible, fun RTwP combat to show me the ropes will help me be more familiar and comfortable before I get around to the games where the combat risks being a slog or risks overwhelming me. My hope is that picking the right order to play games in as I get started will help me get the most enjoyment out of everything.

TL;DR: To help me get started with RTwP combat, which RTwP games have the best/most fun combat, offer the most beginner friendly experience, or have a the best mix of both?

 

[AshWednesday]

(Also, to clarify, when I say "beginner friendly" I don't mean in the sense that it has to be easy. Hard games are fine, maybe even preferred. I don't mind dying a lot, etc., that's not the source of my frustration. Whatever I do play I'm probably going to play it on the difficulty where I die regularly cause that's generally what I like.)

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

beaten Planescape Torment, Baldur's Gate 2, Fallout, etc.

Fallout is turn-based game.

Anyway, here my advice: forget about RTwP combat and don't torture yourself. If you didn't liked BG1 you will suffer in majority of RTwP games, because MANY of them is watered down "just like BG" clones or diablo clones. PoE even was marketed as "just like BG1" game. RTwP combat isn't for everyone and this "real time craze" happened only because BG1 was standing out in terms of financial success (if we compare to other RPG at that time) and companies that pretend to cater towards "nerd" audience want their slice of pie. KOTOR I-II one of exceptions, but not sure should I recommend this game to you, since you obviously into isometric view and not third person.
Planescape: Torment has not the best combat, but world and story worth suffer through combat.

There plenty of turn based RPGs that make you feel more comfortable in terms of combat:
Fallout 1-2 (one of best RPGs of all time)
Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura (one of the best RPGs ever created, you can even switch to real time, just to try if you want, game have both combat systems)
The Temple of Elemental Evil (most faithful adaptation to 3.5 D&D rules at the moment)
Underrail (more modern RPG than others listed, IMHO also one of best RPGs )
Jagged Alliance 2 (this one is fucking hardcore, you will fucking sweating while thinking about next turn, but I think it's good)
Dark Sun: Shattered Lands (this one is very fucking old, but I thought it worth to mention this game)

 

[madrigal]

Might and Magic VI

 

[Watser]

High Calibre 7.62

 

[Safav Hamon]

All RTwP combat is shit. You should finish Pillars of Eternity and move on to Deadfire which has a superior turn based mode.

 

[majorsoccer]

Arcanum

 

[Ismaul]

None really. RTwP is cancer.

But if you have to, I'd second madrigal's suggestion of Might & Magic VI. But you have to know that it's not what people mean when they think about RTwP combat, it's not top down but first person blobber combat. And that makes the RTwP much more tolerable. Hell, you can just play it in pure RT, with maybe a pause here and there.

Another suggestion, though not really an RPG: Fallout Tactics. You can play in TB or "continuous TB", and they somehow managed to make it work. Set up a plan of action with your squad, who targets who and how they get there, then unpause to see it executed. Feels like phase-based combat.

And another: Space Rangers 2 / HD. You've got no party though, so you'll mostly play in RT, pausing to think about what to do next in combat. Basically the game is in RT when you travel with your ship, paused when you stop or press pause. The game though isn't just about space combat where RTwP takes place, there's many other systems and mechanics that come in play. You do quests and trade from system to system for example.

Basically, all those games have an ok RTwP system because the game is designed so that you don't need to bash the pause button every microsecond, unlike in the Infinity engine games or Pillars of Eternity. Pause is what it is, a pause you take to think out shit and plan, at reasonable intervals. Not something that's required because you have to micromanage everything at every frame of animation.

 

[Yosharian]

I don't think Baldurs Gate II for example is that difficult, in terms of RTWP gameplay. What specifically are you having trouble with? BG2 is well worth playing IMO

 

[Elex]

pathfinder: because you realize that the same game in turn based mode will require 1000 hours of time.

 

[mold]

Icewind Dale 1&2 are rtwp at its best. The first one is easier and most people like it better, but the second has overall more interesting encounters.

IWD1 was one of the first cRPGs I played and I did fine even though I'd previously played mostly tb strategy and shooters.

 

[BING XI LAO]

Just turn on the autopause settings
turnbased is just the slow, clunky version of RTWP, people only dislike RTWP because it triggers their autism and gives them sensory overload when more than 1 thing happens at once

 

[Ismaul]

pathfinder: because you realize that the same game in turn based mode will require 1000 hours of time.

1 good TB tactical combat encounter > 10 trash RTwP clusterfuck combat encounters

 

[Dodo1610]

Either Pillar of Eternity or Dragon Age Origins, they have tutorials and explain everything in great detail.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Mass Effect is the best RTwP RPG

 

[Rake]

IWD 1 and 2
Then move on to BG1 and 2
And last PST and kingmaker.
I think that is the easiest progression for you to get comfortable with RTwP and enjoy the games without combat standing in your way

Poe and Deadfire combat just feels different to me than classic IE so i didn't include them, they are their own thing really
Same as Aarklash Legacy which has some of the best RTwP around, and the game is all about the combat, but i don't know if experience with it's version of RTwP tranfers well to IE version of RTwP. But if you want a game with accesible "fun"combat in order to acclimatize with the concept of RTwP, you could give it a try, who knows, it could work for you

 

[Jack Of Owls]

What game will best teach me how to enjoy RTwP combat?

I would recommend Might and Magic VI as a fun introduction to the RTwP concept over something like the Baldur's Gate series. M&M6 does that sense of progression/exploration thing with RTwP mechanics better than any cRPG I can remember, though it can be very unbalanced in the end game because of the far too generous loot drops. Tip: don't grind too much, or else you will be so powerful by the conclusion that the game's end boss will be defeated so quickly you won't even see more than three frames of her monster animation before she drops dead. This happened to me.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Freedom Force has pretty good RTwP system combined with destructible buildings, objects that are affected by physics and some nice verticality on battlefields with characters that can fly or jump on top of buildings.

 

[Sergiu64]

The trick with enjoying RTwP is the ability to configure your AI character's behavior during combat and just accepting the fact that AoE abilities will hit your own characters as well (and equipping/leveling them accordingly).

That leaves Deadfire as the best RTwP game. Dragon Age is probably 2nd if you use one of the mods that gives you extra tactic slots.

It requires a certain mindset: do you like Automating things? Arranging a perfect set of instructions on multiple characters and seeing them work together as a team without your interference in a flowing real time sequence? Or do you want to be in control and plan out each decision for most characters during the battle?

 

[Barbalos]

I think Dragon Age Origins is the smoothest RTwP that is not too hard for a beginner. It runs well, looks good, forgiving mechanics on a reasonable difficulty. There's too much junk combats in the game but that's just the way that game is. I haven't played Pathfinder yet, seems good, but not easy from what I hear.

 

[laclongquan]

Icewind Dale 1 is best for teaching a beginner the joys of RTwP. 2 is a bit too hard to figure out first time.

BG1 might work, but frankly IWD1 is the purified and concentrated combat version of BG1.

If you dont want fantasy world setting, but science fiction...

UFO Aftershock or UFO Afterlight. AS is on Earth, while AL is on Mars.

 

[pomenitul]

Play an RTS instead. I'm serious: it'll give you a better sense of why RTwP became popular in the first place.

 

[Humanophage]

The TB fetish is overblown. I like TB, but most TB RPGs have trivial combat with industrial amounts of trash fights where each little monster takes a minute to move and they are not allowed to move simultaneously.

RTwP is not RTS-like: it requires no twitchiness and fast reaction whatsoever. There is zero action element in it and there is no rush to do anything. By this logic, CK, HoI or Victoria share appeal with Starcraft or Warcraft.

 

[Trashos]

What is it that you find frustrating about BG1 combat?

Not going to suggest what is appropriate as a 1st (mine was BG1), but the best RTwP combat is in BG2. So make sure that you end up there at some point. Afaic, at that point in time Bioware really understood what is fun about RTwP combat.

PS. I haven't played Kingmaker.

 

[Catacombs]

Play an RTS instead. I'm serious: it'll give you a better sense of why RTwP became popular in the first place.

Something chaotic, like Total Annihilation.