Wizardry The Wizardry Series Thread

[Grauken]

Just saying, Tiltowait is the magic word

Anyway, quest items you can always get back (found that out when I killed a quest item giver, had no free item slots and had to do it all over again)

 

[newtmonkey]

I get you, but I am currently working on dungeon level 5, and it seems like every other encounter is with med/high level priest casters or undead... I only have so many Toltowaits! haha

If a quest item gets stolen, I just close DOSBOX. I am not going through those quest chains a second time just to "play the game as intended" (though I guarantee you I would have been backing my save disk up every night if I was playing this back in the day )
(Having said that, at least it lets you go back and get quest items; I honestly wouldn't have been surprised if the game permanently removed quest items from inventory, requiring you to reinitialize the dungeon or some bullshit lolz)

 

[Grauken]

To be honest, I usually just skip 5, there's not much of interest there (beside the healing pool), rather go straight to 6 via the chute from 1, much more effective (and to escape via 7 -> one of the Hell Levels -> Gate to Town)

 

[newtmonkey]

Oh, is level 5 optional? It's massive and has some NPC encounters etc., so I figured I needed to find something here.

What kind of encounters are common on level 6?

 

[Grauken]

Tigers, snow slimes, Yeti's, Wraiths, you have annoying enemy groups with spells, but IMHO far less than on 5. I used 6 usually to level up, once you have a map of the place and know where to go. 7 and the Hell Levels are probably too deadly for you right now, but you can get out of those fast (for 7 you only need to map the outer lane, and all the hell levels (each in one corner of 7) are small and have an exit to town, although the demons in those level are tough).

 

[newtmonkey]

In that case, I might leave level 5 for later, just to complete my maps
I guess in hindsight it does seem like a bonus area, due to the theme, how you access the area, etc.

Also, I can't believe I didn't think of this earlier, but I just created a dummy character in the Inn to store quest items while I'm not using them. Does anyone know if this could cause problems (disappearing items, etc.)?

Meanwhile, I went and leveled my Bishop to level 5 to improve his ID skill, and it's made things a lot smoother. I am considering leveling him to level 10 because (assuming Wiz 5 uses the same formula for ID chance) this would bring his base ID% to 60% and reduce the base chance of him accidentally equipping a cursed item to 5%.

Finally, I got a Sacred Basher for my Priest and it's awesome.

 

[Grauken]

Nope, Bishops as mules and for identifying is an old strategy, also didn't have any problems so far

 

[Melan]

My great regret WRT Wizardry V is playing it without being aware of the aging mechanic. By the time I got anywhere, all my characters were senile old coots who could barely lift themselves out of bed and didn't remember basic enemy names.

 

[Grauken]

My great regret WRT Wizardry V is playing it without being aware of the aging mechanic. By the time I got anywhere, all my characters were senile old coots who could barely lift themselves out of bed and didn't remember basic enemy names.

Holy fuck, what level where your characters?

Also there's a pool of youth in the game

 

[Melan]

They weren't too high level, I just made the mistake of sleeping too long at the inn instead of using healing spells. Wish I had known of the healing pool, but this was in the days of the Ultimate Wizardry Archives (late 90s), before the Internet became widespread.

 

[cvv]

I started with the Bradley trilogy, then went back to the earlier games, and while I like them and think they are one of the few really old games that hold up quite well, for me Wizardry will always be the later games + Grimoire

This. I grew up on Wiz 7 and I was awed by its genius. It was No. 1 on my Best RPG Ever list since the early 1990s until I finally got around to play Dark Souls two years ago. What a run.

I bought the early Wizardries when they became available on GOG a few years ago but they didn't grow on me. It was like growing up driving Ferrari F40 and then trying Ford Model T. I mean they were kindda cute and quaint but next to Wiz 7 they really felt like a cute toy rocket next to a real Space Shuttle.

For me Wiz7 is still the best party-based RPG ever made, with the best itemization and best dungeons.

 

[octavius]

I played Wiz 6 decades before Wiz, but I still enjoyed Wiz 1 thoroughly.

Wiz7[...]best itemization

 

[Poseidon00]

The only Wizardry game I tried is 5, Heart of the Maelstrom. It was one of the games in my grandparents huge SNES collection.

I enjoy it immensely and once in a while will still pop it in, but i've never finished it and refuse to use a guidebook. These games are made to be explored.

 

[Covenant]

In that case, I might leave level 5 for later, just to complete my maps

Level 5 is only optional if you cheese one of the puzzles, though (the Battery one), and that's probably the best puzzle in the game. Plus level 5 has much more interesting enemies than level 6 - Beauty and the Beast, the Lich, etc. I think my rescue party wiped for the first time on Level 5... Prompting the creation of a third, superior party to rescue my rescue party.

The only Wizardry game I tried is 5, Heart of the Maelstrom. It was one of the games in my grandparents huge SNES collection.

I enjoy it immensely and once in a while will still pop it in, but i've never finished it and refuse to use a guidebook. These games are made to be explored.

The loss of the keyword system aside, I think the SNES version of Maelstrom was great. The art and music stick with me to this day. Kudos for not reaching for the walkthrough the second you get stymied - I spent half an hour trying to get out of the first room in Wiz IV before looking it up and then instantly regretting it.

 

[Grauken]

Wizardry 5 has some good puzzles, some blindingly obvious ones, and then the Bradley-style super-opaque ones that don't make a lick of sense and where I didn't felt like missing out on when I looked them up

 

[aweigh]

SNES remake of Wiz 5 is indeed great, but after playing it through a couple of times and then playing through the PS1 version, I think the PS1 version is the definititive version. I think the PS1 version is the best way to play Wiz 5, all things considered.

That said I can never make up my mind on whether I prefer the PS1 orchestral soundtrack or the SNES MIDI soundtrack... argh! It's hard to choose! The SNES MIDI tunes are burned into my brain for all eternity.

In 3rd place I would vote for the PC98 version. They used the dedicated Kanji chip processor to add anti-aliasing to the wireframes and they look razor sharp! All of the white text looks absolutely fantastic as well, you could cut yourself on how sharp it looks. Big, big step up from the aliased wireframe lines of the previous versions.

And yes, I did just graphics-whore over wireframes.

 

[newtmonkey]

Wizardry 5
Does anyone recall their average party level while they were exploring level 5/6? My characters are all around 14-15, but I feel extremely underpowered. Most every encounter seems to be a dozen enemies split into 4-5 groups who all cast high level magic, have magic resistance, drain you, and can stone you. I honestly don't see what the strategy is for these encounters now, other than Tiltowaitx2 and praying for mercy. I could throw up some magic protection, but that means one less Tiltowait during the first round, so...

I guess at this point I'm on the fence about this one. I liked the NPC interaction and adventure game-like item puzzles at first, but I don't think they mix particularly well with a game that gets so brutal in the middle/end. The massive levels were also cool at first, but again, trekking through these over and over to run through quest chains while nearly any encounter can completely ruin your day (level drain, stolen quest item, destroyed high level armor; death is the least of your worries at this point) is just getting kind of annoying to be honest. I glanced at a walkthrough just to get an idea of how much game I've got left, and it doesn't seem like something I can just run through in a night, so I'll be putting this game on hold to play something a bit more enjoyable (likely M&M1), and will pick away at it here and there until I seem to be making progress.

[edit] After posting that I launched Wiz 5 right back up and finished exploring level 6 (or at least, what I could access, there's a puzzle there I'll need to solve later and an NPC that didn't seem to provide much of anything, so I'll need to look in that too). The addiction is real

 

[octavius]

I don't recall what my level was, and checking my old messages about Wiz 5 made chuckle:

By Jove, Wizardy 5 is getting tedious!
Currently exploring level 4, which boils down to mapping a long, long maze, get beheaded by some monks and ninjas, then head back to the castle ('cause my guys haven't got any Teleport, Life or Recall spell yet), then spend all my hard earned money, explore a few more squares if I'm lucky, and then have party member getting beheaded again. And those that don't get beheaded get magic drained, paralyzed or poisoned.

I've searched hundreds of wall units, but not found one fucking secret door so far. And you have to hit several keys just to search one wall unit, which is tedious.
After my last foray I had not enough gold to resurrect two of my guys, but my Priest was only 7,000 XP away from a new level (hopefully getting the Life spell), so I decided to systemetically search the whole perimeter of lvl 1 for secret doors.
I finally found one, leading to a large area, inside which there was a new secret door in a buidling of four rooms. There was a message - Adix Non Viote Monous - which apparantly means "Don't Enter Alone". Does this mean I need an NPC in the party? From CRPG Addict's blog I seem to recall him talking about NPCs that could join the party.
Anyway, the last of the four rooms contained a chute which ignored my Levitate spell (how cute), which dropped my party all the way down to lvl 6. Needless to say my weakened party did not last long against monsters with a fuckton of HP, spell resistance and Paralyze attacks. I could swear I could hear Dewey Bradley going Mwahahaha! while twirling his mustache...

This game is so fucking SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOW.
It started very promising, with large levels (reminded my of the Dungeon Master levels), that are more properly interconnected than previous Wizardries (stairs and elevators line up properly, but pits don't), and more unlinear levels.
Sadly, there does not seem to be any short cuts, so there is a fuckload of walking back and forth the same corriodors over and again and over again.

Of the first five Wizardries the only one that is prefectly balanced, both difficulty wise and game pace wise, is the first one.

As it is Wiz 5 is starting to become interesting only to see how Bradly reused puzzles in later games, Wiz 6 used things from Wiz 5 like the Dwarven smith and the engineering puzzle, while Wiz 7 used the Swimming skill, an object that gives 100% Swimming skill and the silly Priests.

 

[Grauken]

Wizardry 5
Does anyone recall their average party level while they were exploring level 5/6? My characters are all around 14-15, but I feel extremely underpowered. Most every encounter seems to be a dozen enemies split into 4-5 groups who all cast high level magic, have magic resistance, drain you, and can stone you. I honestly don't see what the strategy is for these encounters now, other than Tiltowaitx2 and praying for mercy. I could throw up some magic protection, but that means one less Tiltowait during the first round, so...

I guess at this point I'm on the fence about this one. I liked the NPC interaction and adventure game-like item puzzles at first, but I don't think they mix particularly well with a game that gets so brutal in the middle/end. The massive levels were also cool at first, but again, trekking through these over and over to run through quest chains while nearly any encounter can completely ruin your day (level drain, stolen quest item, destroyed high level armor; death is the least of your worries at this point) is just getting kind of annoying to be honest. I glanced at a walkthrough just to get an idea of how much game I've got left, and it doesn't seem like something I can just run through in a night, so I'll be putting this game on hold to play something a bit more enjoyable (likely M&M1), and will pick away at it here and there until I seem to be making progress.

[edit] After posting that I launched Wiz 5 right back up and finished exploring level 6 (or at least, what I could access, there's a puzzle there I'll need to solve later and an NPC that didn't seem to provide much of anything, so I'll need to look in that too). The addiction is real

What the Mad Stomper told you (if you listened to his story) will be useful to solve some of the puzzles on 6

Yeah, as much as I like Wiz5, I think you won't get by without some amount of grinding. And I think what you say about large levels and so on, is the very reason Bradley changed the approach for 6, you couldn't really expand levels without a save everywhere feature. And going by the complaints of younger generations, Wiz6/7 is still tough for them

 

[newtmonkey]

As much as I like the classic Wiz mechanics, I am seeing that now. I mentioned earlier that the classic Wiz mechanics simply wouldn't work in a sprawling dungeon crawler like Wiz 6, never mind an open world blobber like Wiz 7, but I think Wiz 5 is pretty much pushed to the breaking point—maybe even beyond that point. It's almost too massive and sprawling for these mechanics.

The NPC stuff is an fun addition at first glance, but gets annoying. Yeah, you miss stuff early on when interacting with NPCs, and by the time you need to go back and grill them for information you probably aren't at any risk whatsoever getting back to them; but later in the game encounters are so dangerous to basically any party that it gets annoying. For example, I have no clue what to do with that NPC in the NW corner of level 6, so I have just put that off for later... but at some point I am gonna have to go all the way over there again fighting extremely dangerous encounters, and even if I gain 2-3 levels by then, it's not gonna make autokill/level drain/stone any easier.

It's one reason I like the Eliminage series (well, at least Elminage Original), as they went and expanded on those classic mechanics in a different direction, basically adding multiple dungeons to explore, with each dungeon being of a somewhat reasonable size. This works well with classic Wiz mechanics. They also added Alchemists, which seem almost like they were designed to deal with the annoying kinds of enemies you run into mid/late game in Wiz 5.

 

[Grauken]

I'll be honest, when I did the profile for Wiz5 DOS for GridCartographer I went through the game the proper way (save scumming is proper by my count), but for the SNES profile I abused save stats quite extensively and while its cheating, it makes the whole experience much more enjoyable in some ways

 

[aweigh]

Much rather have good 20x20 dungeon floor than superfluous 50x75 one.

 

[newtmonkey]

I am definitely save scumming for the DOS version, I have no qualms about admitting that. That means, if I am gonna get a party wipe or if something absolutely horrible happens (have a quest item or high level equipment stolen), I shut DOSBOX down and restart in town. I also backup my save nightly just in case.

 

[Grauken]

Much rather have good 20x20 dungeon floor than superfluous 50x75 one.

Definitely, I felt floor 5 was where they run out of ideas and just threw a large, mostly meaningless dungeon at you.

 

[Leitz]

Man I wish I could finally beat it. Any tips?