Did anyone play the Avernum series?

[luj1]

Sorry Newfag here. Serious question though. I have decided while I wait for the Earth sundering incline that will come on August 1st that I would play through some of the true old skool RPG's I have on my hardrive and I realized I have the entire series of Avernum games that I have never played. I was just wondering if anyone had any vallid, learned opinions of this series? For that matter I have the entire Geneforge series as well. Are either worth a playthrough?

Escape from the Pit & Geneforge are masterpieces of storytelling and should be treated as free lessons in video game design. A must-play before you die. In comparison, Avadon is somewhat stripped-down but to be fair it's a series with a completely different approach - more linear, more story-focused and revolves around instanced "missions".

 

[octavius]

So how does Avernum's combat compare with for example Ultima IV?

I've reached Avernum 1 on my chronological play list, and I'm having serious doubts wether it will be worth the effort, or if I should wait until 5 instead, which I understand is, with 6, the best game in the series.
Simplistic combat is OK if it's quick, like abstract blobber combat, or RTwP on auto against trash mobs (Darklands, IE games), but lots of slow, simplistic, turn based combat is not my idea of fun, especially if there's also HP bloat of which I heard rumours.

 

[fantadomat]

So how does Avernum's combat compare with for example Ultima IV?

I've reached Avernum 1 on my chronological play list, and I'm having serious doubts wether it will be worth the effort, or if I should wait until 5 instead, which I understand is, with 6, the best game in the series.
Simplistic combat is OK if it's quick, like abstract blobber combat, or RTwP on auto against trash mobs (Darklands, IE games), but lots of slow, simplistic, turn based combat is not my idea of fun, especially if there's also HP bloat of which I heard rumours.

Play escape from the pits,as it is the remake and more....practical. The original is pretty aged,don't know if you will like it. All of the games are good. The combat is party turn based,it is beyond me why anything should be compared to ultima 4 tho.

 

[octavius]

Ultima IV is like the benchmark for the worst possible TB combat.

 

[Leonard]

It's better than Ultima 4 but nothing special. Depending on the game, it has different problems. I find the old Avernums (1-3) to be generally faster. New Avernums (4-6, and remakes of 1-3) have these annoying damage sponge bosses with multiple phases(sometimes featuring invulnerability or healing for them, too). Old games have instead enemies that just deal 500% of your health bar for 2/3 of the game.

 

[Elzair]

Ultima IV is like the benchmark for the worst possible TB combat.

Oh come on! It is not THAT bad (with the exception of those Reaper fights; they can fuck right off)! I am sure CRPGAddict could point you to plenty of games with worse turn based combat.

 

[V_K]

or if I should wait until 5 instead, which I understand is, with 6, the best game in the series.

Personally I found 5 to be the worst - it's just very linear and boring. Besides, the second trilogy (Avernum 4-6) is where the mechanics got streamlined again.
Combat in Avernum 1-3 is quite fast because there are no animations. That said, they're Vogel games, so expect lots of trash combats (but that's true of 4-6 as well). I'd say play 3 since it's the most ambitious one in the series. Unless you already played Exile 3, then there's arguably no reason to engage with the series at all.

 

[newtmonkey]

At first I thought octavius was exaggerating about the horrible combat in Ultima IV, as it didn't match my recollection of playing the game as a kid. But I am replaying it now, and the combat is just absolutely horrible. You have all these different kinds of enemies, but hardly any of them do anything other than just walk forward or throw weapons at you. You have all these weapons and spells at your disposal, but 99.9% of all battles will be you shooting ranged weapons straight up while the enemy is basically powerless to do anything to you. Plus, the encounters are level scaled, and all you get from winning is chests of gold. I mean, the only way it could be worse would be to add crafting based on gathering rat penises like in the Etrian Odyssey games.

Having said all that, Ultima IV is not the game to play if you want interesting combat, so I don't really hold its combat against it.

 

[octavius]

Ultima IV is like the benchmark for the worst possible TB combat.

Oh come on! It is not THAT bad (with the exception of those Reaper fights; they can fuck right off)! I am sure CRPGAddict could point you to plenty of games with worse turn based combat.

Well, there is a reason I only play a selection of games in my chronological playthrough, but U4 is the worst I can think of that I have personally played. Some of the problem is the excessive random encounters, which was thankfully fixed in U5 which had roaming monsters only at night.

 

[newtmonkey]

I think the biggest problem with the combat in U4, besides being braindead yet being so frequent and taking up so much time, is that it doesn't mesh well at all with the rest of the game AT ALL.

First, dungeon expeditions are a huge part of the game, and preparing to explore a dungeon is almost Realms of Arkania-esque—it is when exploring the dungeons that you most need spells and tools, and you can't get that stuff just anywhere. So any dungeon expedition will be prefaced by you going from town to town to buy reagents and tools... meanwhile you are constantly being harassed by groups of 6-8 enemies, none of which pose any threat.

Then you have the morality system, which means you can't even FLEE from trash encounters that aren't worth your time... and then once you get too strong for the current level-scaled encounters, on top of that you have to allow enemies to SLOWLY escape from battle when you do too much damage and they want to run.

Oh, forgot what I was getting at lol
octavius The combat in Avernum is not amazing, but it's quick. I'd compare it with the combat in M&M3 in that it's nothing amazing but at least it's not annoying. BTW, have you intentionally skipped the Exile games, or have you played them before? If you prefer to play Exile, it's easy enough to download a preinstalled Windows 3 folder, mount it in DOSBOX, and play the Exile games that way, with no fuss.

 

[Mustawd]

Ultima IV is like the benchmark for the worst possible TB combat.

Oh come on! It is not THAT bad (with the exception of those Reaper fights; they can fuck right off)! I am sure CRPGAddict could point you to plenty of games with worse turn based combat.

Well, there is a reason I only play a selection of games in my chronological playthrough, but U4 is the worst I can think of that I have personally played. Some of the problem is the excessive random encounters, which was thankfully fixed in U5 which had roaming monsters only at night.

The Avernum combat isn’t bad. The animations are quick. There is grid based movement, AoO, a party of four, and a variety of enemies. You can also create your party from scratch, ditch them to recruit wandering adventurers and completely respec your character if you F it up (it’s a built-in feature).


The drawbacks:

-It’s only 4 party members which can make things stale after a while

-There are some combat builds that become useless mid to late game. Stay away from archers as the damage just does not keep up over time.

-Vogel sucks at encounter design. Sometimes you see the same old tricks.

People like mondblut would suggest you try the Exile games first, as the party number is six and there is a greater variety of spells.

 

[PapaPetro]

It's ok. But I've always considered it inferior to its predecessor Exile III.
Every few years I fire up a my Win XP VM and go through another playthrough.

 

[octavius]

I decided to give it a pass.
It just seems too bland. The combat not being directly bad, but not very exciting either, the setting rather generic, no exciting abilities.
Just mediocre in all aspects is my impression. I'd rather play something that does a few things very well at the cost of other things.

So a game that I would play if I had unlimited time.