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Baldur’s Gate 2 is not for me...

howlingFantods

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Sort of astounded that this game gets so much love here. I don’t think it’s bad game but I don’t think it’s a great game either. There’s just so much about it that I find uninteresting and even downright annoying.
For instance, the amount of micromanaging involved in BGII is a huge turnoff for me. There’s way too much loot in this game but collecting loot is sheer tedium. Juggling 6 inventories really takes all of the inertia out of dungeon run and is hardly my idea of fun. I mean, 6 inventories is fine in some games (wizardry) but that’s only because there is waaaay less loot in those games. But to get back to this loot issue, I actually clocked the time it took me to sell and organize a full 6 inventories to a shopkeeper and it took 31 minutes. For this reason I avoided most loot, but it was still a pain because now every piece of loot became a decision: take it or leave it, take it or leave it, over and over. And if this wasn’t bad enough, the combat was ALSO often an exercise in micromanagement thanks to RTWP. Now, this in itself isn’t that bad, the combat was mostly good otherwise, but combined w the loot inventory micromanagement it really kind of killed the pace of the game.
All of those small incessant decisions drained me too—felt like work.
And then one of the things which is supposed to be good about this game is the companions, but my GOD what an annoying bunch. Aerie is a insufferable child, Yoshimo is a boring stereotype, Jaheira is even worse than Hamlets mom, Minsc is absurdly stupid, Jan is insane in an annoying way, Imoen is emo and little else, Nadia is a hippie SJW wannabe. The ones I didn’t mention are either boring or merely unbelievable (except for Korgan). I wasn’t allowed full party creation for these clowns?
And another thing, exploration is practically nonexistent save for the first city!
Anyhow, there are things I like about this game: combat (mostly), fort stuff, some quests; but, in the end these things are dragged down by micromanagement and childish companions. Honestly they ought to rebrand this as a single mother simulator.
 

Bester

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I'll bite.

but collecting loot is sheer tedium
Collecting loot is the anticipation of finding something unique/exciting, or getting a new spell, i.e. things that alter the way you conduct combat. BG2 loot is ALWAYS fun.

Juggling 6 inventories really takes all of the inertia out of dungeon run and is hardly my idea of fun.
When you get bag of holding, there's no juggling involved. And if you don't want to juggle, you don't have to. You'll simply get less gold from your dungeon run. The mechanic is optional, so there's no place for complaining here.

to sell and organize a full 6 inventories to a shopkeeper and it took 31 minutes.
1- It begs the question of how retarded you gotta be to take 30 mins to sell stuff?
2- Why do you do it? It's optional. Whick also begs the question of retardedness.

[combat] combined w the loot inventory micromanagement it really kind of killed the pace of the game.
I don't remember ever having to manage loot DURING combat other than in desperate situations.

All of those small incessant decisions drained me too—felt like work.
Don't play interactive games? Clearly RPGs are not for you.

Yoshimo is a boring stereotype
Are you kidding me?
The deceitful asian guy who betrays you in the middle of the game leaving you without a thief in a super trapped dungeon? That's neither boring, nor mundane, it's a great subversion or second degree humor from the developers. I loved it, many people were enraged by it, but it didn't leave anyone bored. Something is wrong with you.

The ones I didn’t mention are either boring or merely unbelievable (except for Korgan)
1. Don't have to play with companions.
2. Don't have to talk to them if you don't like them.
3. Maybe they were teen-fantasy-like. But then what game offered anything better?
 

howlingFantods

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I'll bite.


Collecting loot is the anticipation of finding something unique/exciting, or getting a new spell, i.e. things that alter the way you conduct combat. BG2 loot is ALWAYS fun.

There is no anticipation because there’s way too much goddam loot in your face at all times. The actual items are cool but it becomes a chore to sort through them


When you get bag of holding, there's no juggling involved. And if you don't want to juggle, you don't have to. You'll simply get less gold from your dungeon run. The mechanic is optional, so there's no place for complaining here.

Why don’t you just get no gold ever (save for quests) and hope that the game doesn’t require you to buy something expensive eventually?
Because RPGs usually expect me to be doing that and plan/balance the game accordingly.

1- It begs the question of how retarded you gotta be to take 30 mins to sell stuff?
2- Why do you do it? It's optional. Whick also begs the question of retardedness.

I sold 6 full inventories and had to decide what to keep. That’s a lot of decisions. Plus I had to organize everyone’s stuff so that they had the shit they might need in combat and so I could find everything easily. All together that takes a long time.

I don't remember ever having to manage loot DURING combat other than in desperate situations.

Didn’t say that. Just saying that micromanaging inventories on top of micromanaging combat results in lots of small decisions which get tiresome.

Don't play interactive games? Clearly RPGs are not for you.

Haha what? Like I’m going to retroactively realize my favorite games are actually not my favorites?


1. Don't have to play with companions.
2. Don't have to talk to them if you don't like them.
3. Maybe they were teen-fantasy-like. But then what game offered anything better?

1) Yeah. Allow me to solo my first play. That should be fun
2) just ignore a huge part of game developers spent time on. Ok
3) this is why I don’t like companions in general. Planescape though
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
How to avoid the loot problem:

only pick up magical items, don't bother with the mundane shit

If you pick up every single item that drops, it's your own fault if it becomes unmanageable.
 

Falksi

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It's an old game, it has some bugbears definitely.

Personally I thought they threw way too many quests at you from the off, I can see your point about inventory management (although I didn't find it much of an issue myself), as others say don't pick every noggin up, and my own bugbear was the pathfinding. Ye gads that was annoying.

But to me they're minor gripes & the kind of thing you expect from older games. The plus points FAR outweigh the negatives of all that, and I couldn't disagree more about the companions. Each character has a unique personality which you like/hate/whatever in reflection to your own self. Is Aerie an insufferable child? Only if you have no tolerance. Is Yoshimo is a boring stereotype? Only if you have no appriciation. Is Minsc is absurdly stupid? Only if you have no sense of humour.

The game as a whole has a ton of goodness to enjoy.
 

howlingFantods

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Minsc is kind of funny but in an unbelievable way. I could hear the writers thinking they were clever through Minsc’s dialogue. He was supposed to be dumb but his dialogue was too “cleverly” written to convince me.
I can’t believe you’re defending aerie. Brave of you.
Yeah the path finding was pretty annoying too. For me, these bugbears were enough for the bad to outweigh the good; although, I certainly saw flashes of brilliance (especially in the riddles and puzzles)
 

howlingFantods

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How to avoid the loot problem:

only pick up magical items, don't bother with the mundane shit

If you pick up every single item that drops, it's your own fault if it becomes unmanageable.

I do pick up only magical items potions, spells, and arrows (to resupply) still a huge pain in the ass w 6 walking inventories that have to move out of each other’s ways
 
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Bester

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Why don’t you just get no gold ever (save for quests) and hope that the game doesn’t require you to buy something expensive eventually?
Because RPGs usually expect me to be doing that and plan/balance the game accordingly.
What? Please write sentences in English.
And I got the general idea of what you said and it's bullshit. Every playthrough I end up with 200k gold that I don't know what to buy with. There's entirely too much gold in the game.

Just saying that micromanaging inventories on top of micromanaging combat results in lots of small decisions which get tiresome.
99% fights are done with Select ALL + left click on mobs. What micromanagement are you even talking about I have no idea.

2) just ignore a huge part of game developers spent time on. Ok
They're not even voiced for the most part. Writing 100 lines for an NPC is not "huge".

3) this is why I don’t like companions in general. Planescape though
Subjective.

I do pick up only magical items potions, spells, and arrows (to resupply) still a huge pain
"I got to pick one item per 3-4 fights? Still a pain in the ass."
"I got to pick one item per 20 fights? Still a pain in the ass".
You can pick shit up as rarely as you want. But apparently it's just always pain in the ass with you. Cause you're a mental case.
 

howlingFantods

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What? Please write sentences in English.
And I got the general idea of what you said and it's bullshit. Every playthrough I end up with 200k gold that I don't know what to buy with. There's entirely too much gold in the game.


99% fights are done with Select ALL + left click on mobs. What micromanagement are you even talking about I have no idea.


They're not even voiced for the most part. Writing 100 lines for an NPC is not "huge".


Subjective.


"I got to pick one item per 3-4 fights? Still a pain in the ass."
"I got to pick one item per 20 fights? Still a pain in the ass".
You can pick shit up as rarely as you want. But apparently it's just always pain in the ass with you. Cause you're a mental case.

It doesn’t even sound like you’re praising the game anymore
 

Bester

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So?

Sounds like all your points turned out to be psycho crazy ideas.
 

jewboy

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okok are you a Millennial by any chance? Don't give up on it yet. Try metagaming, minmaxing, a full party, and adding SCS. You can add a full party by starting in multiplayer mode. You can read about the details online. Don't even bother playing without SCS. It makes the combat way harder and much more of an interesting challenge. Yes you will have to micromanage but that is the whole point of combat in RPGs isn't it? Do you really want the computer to make all of the decisions for you so that you just watch the combat unfold without any decision making? Are you sure that is fun? What are some games with combat you like that does not have micromanagement?

Anyway try fighting Firkraag and the demiliches and the other dragons and the Rakshasas and the sewer party and Watchers keep all before level 10. Try soloing with a mage. There are so many things to do in BG2 that just scream funfunfun, but you need some metagaming knowledge to fully take advantage of them. Stay away from cheesey tactics like spamming web/grease and cloudkill and look for a fighting style that you personally find enjoyable. I highly suggest finding a balance with SCS where you get killed a lot. If you are not dying you should find a way to make the combat more challenging. That is the key to really getting max enjoyment from this game imo.

Yes the writing is bad just like most RPGs and the NPCs are annoying as fuck. I actually tried playing by murdering Imoen right at the start of the game. You can ignore most of the companions without much problem though and still get most of what the game has to offer.
 

jewboy

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Each character has a unique personality which you like/hate/whatever in reflection to your own self. Is Aerie an insufferable child? Only if you have no tolerance. Is Yoshimo is a boring stereotype? Only if you have no appriciation. Is Minsc is absurdly stupid? Only if you have no sense of humour. The game as a whole has a ton of goodness to enjoy.

I cannot think of a game I like much better than BG2 and I have replayed it more than any game including TOEE, but he is 100% correct about the whiny, retarded and badly written NPCs. I am pretty sure they were not written by 5 year olds (although I wouldn't entirely rule out the idea) but they were certainly written for 5 year olds or at least preteens. Are you a preteen by any chance or at least are you still young enough to enjoy cartoons because that is the demographic those characters were written for. Particularly Minsc. If you find Minsc funny then I don't even know what to say. My friends were more mature and sophisticated than that even at 10 years old. So they must have been targeting up to the age of 7 or 8 I would guess. Do you still find fart jokes hilarious? I tend to hate modern games but at least the writing seems to have improved beyond BG2. It was pretty amazing they felt they could get away with that. Although the SJWism has gotten worse at Bioware since that game. More angry women writers who hate white males.
 
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Falksi

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Each character has a unique personality which you like/hate/whatever in reflection to your own self. Is Aerie an insufferable child? Only if you have no tolerance. Is Yoshimo is a boring stereotype? Only if you have no appriciation. Is Minsc is absurdly stupid? Only if you have no sense of humour. The game as a whole has a ton of goodness to enjoy.

I cannot think of a game I like much better than BG2 and I have replayed it more than any game including TOEE, but he is 100% correct about the whiny, retarded and badly written NPCs. I am pretty sure they were not written by 5 year olds (although I wouldn't entirely rule out the idea) but they were certainly written for 5 year olds or at least preteens. Are you a preteen by any chance or at least are you still young enough to enjoy cartoons because that is the demographic those characters were written for. Particularly Minsc. If you find Minsc funny then I don't even know what to say. My friends were more mature and sophisticated than that even at 10 years old. So they must have been targeting up to the age of 7 or 8 I would guess. Do you still find fart jokes hilarious? I tend to hate modern games but at least the writing seems to have improved behind BG2. It was pretty amazing they felt they could get away with that. Although the SJWism has gotten worse at Bioware since that game. More angry women writers who hate white males.

I'm 40, but my sense of humour is very childish. I still think Minsc is a legend, and the concept of a space-hampster genius :lol:

I like good fart jokes, but most of them stink.
 
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jewboy

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Heh. Well my impression of Minsc was always 'written for 5 year olds'. Didn't stop me from hugely enjoying the game though.
 

Trashos

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howlingFantods,

BG2 is an old game, and as most good old games (as well as the rare good modern game), it takes a while to get used to. So yes, I too had issues with inventory management initially or with the Athkatla throwing quests at your face as soon as you stepped out of Irenicus' dungeon. But I got used to all that, while the awesomeness remained. I have had great fun with it for 10+ full playthroughs.
 

Diggfinger

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What I find most annoying about BG2 is the tedious character-development because it's chained to D&D (only mages are fun - thank god they start at lvl 7-8).

Also, hate the forced story moments (if I create my own party from scratch I dont care for Imoen running around in the dream-castle thing).

Finally, fighting the same villain over and over again is a major let-down for me, in any game. It sucks all momentum out of the battle because "oh wait, it's still early in the game so he'll be back later".
 

Gibson

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1) take ONLY good shit and nothing else - can you swap some item for your party member? if yes, then do it; if no, then just leave it.
2) I'll be called normie for this, but I've always played BG (both) with 4 members (charname included) precisely because I just can't be bothered with inventory for a full 6 member party.
3) you really don't need more gold in BG, trust me. by the end of the game you'll think of Jeff Bezos as a poor peasant compared to your stack of gold if you pick up all the shit.
3) kind of agree with you on the story and other members. like with PS:T it was THE shit when i first played in my teens "so deep/such plot twists", the people over 25 that still find the story characters great are either feeling the nostalgia burn or they've never read a proper book in their life. for me it's the former - I run it every now and then when the memory leaks are becoming too big, so I just replay it for those "oh shit, i completely forgot about this" moments; and it being a big ass game there's alwaysw a decent amount of those moments.
4) play TOEE/Fallout
 

Kliwer

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This thread is just hilarious. Of course BG2 is not a perfect game, but criticize it for the itemization? For the single best aspect of the game, the pinnacle of cRPG design? The game which ofer you a lot of unique items with interesting properties instead of boring +2-3 acid damage ala Dragon Age:I, Original Sin and most of other cRPGs? The game which give you an item upegrade 1-2 times for dungeon, not 5-6 for a corridor? The game which encourage player to keep some not the most powerful weapons becouse they are usefull in some circumstances?
Sorry, but this arguments sound extremly stupid to me.
 

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