Metroid. WTF?

[manco]

Hey kiddies, all this nerdrage got me thinking of how magicly mad I was when I learned of the metroid sequal for the GC. It's like, why bother if yer gonna turn it into a fps? There were NO fps elements AT ALL in the nes and snes versions. And it wasn't even developed by NINTENDO! It was made by a NEW COMPANY. Man, you talk about fan outrage and an inpending feeling of doom.
The crazy thing, is somehow Metroid Prime was fun. It retained it's problem solving, the exploration, the mood. It even improved the Morph ball! Metroid Prime, with the odds against it, improved on the franchise.
That said, it seems a hell of a lot easier to make a 3rd person action into a fps action, than a 3rd person rpg, into a fps whatever.
So, I was wondering if any of you is daring to hope that F3 will be good? I can't really wrap my head around it. Morrowind was pretty, but SO DEAD AND EMPTY. The illusion of the world was broken by people seperated by 1400 miles saying the same things.
But then again, I was DEAD SET against a Metroid update, and proved wrong by perhaps the most imersive GC game ever.
So what's up, any of you "daring to dream"?
manco

 

[Lasakon]

I don't think I even have to comment because this argument is ridiculous. A 2D sidescroller action game is a good choice for an FPS evolution. It retained most of the elements of Metroid. Then again, the new Contra's were 3D sidescroller's and they retained everything. Not to mention most Metroid fans still don't acknowledge it. Like most Fallout fans won't acknowledge a FPS Fallout 3. Fans get alienated by moves like that no matter if the end product turns out good.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Didn't Todd Howard make that argument for you in the second interview for Bethesda getting the rights to Fallout? So, it's not only a bad analogy, it's a bad analogy someone else made and you ripped off.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Of course a 2D sidescroller translates well to a first-person shooter. Both are player-oriented when it comes to gameplay. Its about the player's perception and reflexes in either type; not so with Fallout which is character-driven in that regard.

 

[Araanor]

I remember I was a bit skeptic when I heard of it first, but Miyamoto said it was shaping up good.

When I got to play it, I didn't find it terribly fun. The first-person perspective felt restrictive and the auto-targeting gameplay wasn't much to cheer over. I came up to a leader battle which involved mashing the buttons in a certain way, died twice and got bored with it. Regardless, it's a well-polished game and they didn't fuck with the franchise. Nintendo cares about their franchises. Shooters stay shooters in side-scrolling or first-person and rely on similar skills for playing, bringing first-person to an isometric RPG is another tale completely.

I had more fun with Metroid Fusion on the GBA.

 

[protobob]

Metroid3d was ok. I thought Metroid Fusion (which came out on GBA at the same time) was more enjoyable, though.

Never could beat the final boss on either game though. Hate boses.

 

[Lasakon]

Metroid3d was ok. I thought Metroid Fusion (which came out on GBA at the same time) was more enjoyable, though.

Never could beat the final boss on either game though. Hate boses.

Nuked the Master, eh.

 

[Shevek]

A realtime 2d scroller action game getting turned into a realtime first person action game isnt that much of a stretch (it worked well for Duke Nukem). The whole Metroid thing is a pretty bad analogy when you think about it. Taking a great turn based isometric roleplaying game and turning it into a free roaming realtime first person action rpg is a bit too radical a change for fans of the series to accept.

Hell, I dont see why anyone is surprised by FO fan reaction to this. On the console side of the fence, I remember all kinds of people in an uproar that they made Link cellshaded in that last Zelda game. I mean, the GAMEPLAY didnt change at all from what I heard. Yet there were legions of fans in a NERDRAGE over some cell shading.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

There's also the reactions of Resident Evil fans looking at how Capcom presented RE: Survivor. Or for a better example, look at what was the reaction of Konami fans when the Castlevania series went full 3D to the Nintendo 64.

 

[Amerestatistic]

People love to use the fact that Metroid Prime was so successful as some kind of argument that the kotorification of Fallout would be a great idea. I was just arguing about this somewhere else...

The real question is: What makes Metroid special? I imagine you could sum it up as atmosphere, exploration, anticipation for that next tool that will finally get you to that area you've been trying to reach...not a single thing about this makes the move into first-person anything other than the logical next stepfor the series. (if it were third-person not a single person would have complained by the way, people simply thought FP was going to mean an FPS-style game, so the fan outrage was an illusion)

If they had changed it into an action-FPS with DDR minigames in between levels and all metroid fans thought it was totally awesome, then (maybe) Metroid Prime would probably be relevant.

Now...what makes Fallout special? Some people (the people who haven't been keeping the name on everyone's minds for close to a decade, I believe, making it hot enough to worth owning the license) think that it was only the writing, the setting or whatever that made it special. Most of us disagree here I'm sure, and the people who created it certainly disagree. What else makes it special?

People are going to disagree on that, and I'm burnt out explaining the differences between Metroid Prime and the worse fears about Fallout 3 to people, but if you can think about that for a bit you might at least understand the evil reactionary Fallout fans who would like a little design continuity, if that's too much to ask.

 

[manco]

wow! You shit people have low comprehention. I expected more from the lot of you. I said "That said, it seems a hell of a lot easier to make a 3rd person action into a fps action, than a 3rd person rpg, into a fps whatever", not "DUR DUR, TEY ARE TEH SAME SO IT WILL BE GOOD". Lol, you stupid fuckers argue for the sake of arguement. I was mearly drawing parallels to the similiar outcry of fans when the metroid news was announced. I was wondering what you all thought of that. And as for saint, saying "Didn't Todd Howard make that argument for you in the second interview for Bethesda getting the rights to Fallout? So, it's not only a bad analogy, it's a bad analogy someone else made and you ripped off", well, might I offer you a cock, little dummy, as I don't keep my eyes glued to the moniter, lapping up every word said about F3 like a pig in crap. And so you know, and comprehend, I am not stating an analogy to prove that F3 will rule because Metroid Prime was fun, I was wondering what people thought of the parallels between this stage in the announcement. 2 or 3 weeks in, Metroid fans, myself included were worried about our beloved series.
I'm not Bethsoft, I'm not Todd Howard, I'm a fellow fallout fan just talking in the forums.
(edit) there is more to conversation than dur dur it's good, dur dur it's bad.
manco

 

[Shevek]

I was wondering what you all thought of that.

Are you sure? Since, it seems what you really wanted to do was troll.

 

[Amerestatistic]

Seemed that way to me too, although maybe I jumped the gun, as they say, but I'm already used to "Metroid Prime=UR AN IDIOT" type stuff, seeing just a bit more of it wouldn't be surprising.

EDIT: Metroid Prime is still a ridiculously bad example of why anyone should "dare to dream".

 

[mr. lamat]

well, my self-esteem is utterly shattered.

 

[Spazmo]

So what, you were asking us if we were angry about the change in Metroid's perspective?

Well, no, not really. Never been a Metroid fan anyways.

What was your point again?

 

[Anonymous]

I'm a Metroid fan and I dont like Prime because it's a crappy game, I dont really care about the perspective, though.

 

[evilmonkey]

I loved the old metroids and the new prime - & as such is really looking forward to the next installation for the GC in 2005 - but...

As people have explained before there is smaller gap btw metroid going fps/platfrom from side/platform then FO ISO/TB going to a possible FPS/RT.

Now I've stated before that I could see a TB FPS, but they need to be able to keep the gameplay and it is much easier to incoperate the twitch gameplay from metroid the 2d sidescroller to a FPS view then the TB gameplay of FO in said FPS view.

So I don't lovage the view as such, in all fairness I have little problem with a topview, but I really hate the 3rd person perspective (the flooting camera) - so often seen on the console, and in games like lara croft. So now if they decid to go away from the top view, and it seems that they will , I would prefer a FPS view then the dreaded 3rd person (the only view that I hate more is the public/scripted camera - seen in RE games).

...but again Metroid and Fallout are miles apart in this.

 

[POOPERSCOOPER]

MP was retro studious first game and they were under close supervision from Nintendo headhonchoes and they also brought in former metroid developers to help give direction and advice. It also had to go through Nintendo QA so it would be polished like hell.

Bethesada, however, is not a new developer and we have tasted their previous games before, we saw a trend in them. The trend was TEH SUCK.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Reads manco's question:

But then again, I was DEAD SET against a Metroid update, and proved wrong by perhaps the most imersive GC game ever.
So what's up, any of you "daring to dream"?

Reads the thread.

Hrm... I guess the answer's a 'no'.

wow! You shit people have low comprehention. I expected more from the lot of you. I said "That said, it seems a hell of a lot easier to make a 3rd person action into a fps action, than a 3rd person rpg, into a fps whatever", not "DUR DUR, TEY ARE TEH SAME SO IT WILL BE GOOD".

You'll see on several occasions people pointed out the difference between Metroid and Fallout and why a comparison can't quite be made. Bethesda have so far indicated a desire for real-time, first-person both of which have been argued against at length. If your reading comprehension (notice that's spelt with an 's' by the way) was any good, you would've noticed that.

Lol, you stupid fuckers argue for the sake of arguement. I was mearly drawing parallels to the similiar outcry of fans when the metroid news was announced. I was wondering what you all thought of that.

Once again, if you'll bother to read the replies (and use some of that comprehension you keep pretending you have), you'll note that you got your answer. I think it's quite clear what "we think of that".

And as for saint, saying "Didn't Todd Howard make that argument for you in the second interview for Bethesda getting the rights to Fallout? So, it's not only a bad analogy, it's a bad analogy someone else made and you ripped off", well, might I offer you a cock, little dummy, as I don't keep my eyes glued to the moniter, lapping up every word said about F3 like a pig in crap.

... which is really what the problem is here manco. You're not reading and you're not the only one who's not reading. Fallout was released in 1997 / 1998. The fan-sites have been around since about that long. That's 7 years we've had to talk about this manco, seven years. Any discussion you want to have about TB vs RT or FP vs ISO or SPECIAL vs non-SPECIAL have all been had before. If people bothered reading, they'd notice that. For us, we keep having to dredge up the same arguments again and again repeatedly every time some new kid appears on the block to tell us all how we're wrong because gosh darned it, he just played Fallout 2 when his daddy bought it for him yesterday and weren't all the Monty Python jokes and Silence of the Lambs references just so darned funny?

And so you know, and comprehend, I am not stating an analogy to prove that F3 will rule because Metroid Prime was fun, I was wondering what people thought of the parallels between this stage in the announcement.

My reading comprehension is telling me that this is about the third time you've asked the same question in your reply here. Are you having trouble remembering what the question was?

2 or 3 weeks in, Metroid fans, myself included were worried about our beloved series. I'm not Bethsoft, I'm not Todd Howard, I'm a fellow fallout fan just talking in the forums. (edit) there is more to conversation than dur dur it's good, dur dur it's bad.
manco

Once again I find your own reading comprehension to be somewhat lacking. Do me a favour manco. Scroll up. Read your own question. Now scroll down and start to do what you should've learnt in school. Start to read other people's responses. You'll find some good ones from Role-Player, Araanor and especially Amerestatistic.

... or are you deliberately ignoring those?

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

wow! You shit people have low comprehention.

It's it cute when people try to swear for emphasis but can't quite pull it off?

Now, let's have fun dissecting your comprehension, shall we?

I expected more from the lot of you. I said "That said, it seems a hell of a lot easier to make a 3rd person action into a fps action, than a 3rd person rpg, into a fps whatever", not "DUR DUR, TEY ARE TEH SAME SO IT WILL BE GOOD".

You used the word "seems", which implies that things may not be apparent in the statement. You also followed that with the ackowledgement that you thought Metroid Prime would suck, but it didn't even though you were "dead set" against it. Then you followed that with the rhetorical question about "daring to dream" about Fallout 3 being great with the changes suggested by the IGN interview.

Did I miss something in that exchange?

Lol, you stupid fuckers argue for the sake of arguement.

I think most people answered no, which wasn't the answer you want, thus meaning that your question was rhetorical as I originally thought.

 

[manco]

No, I'm fine with people responding with yes, or no. It's okay if you are still set against F3. I was making conversation, is all.

And as for my cute swearing, it is more than cute, it's great. I'm a post modern curser, and I like the spice of using swears in odd places, to enhance an otherwise boring curse. Shit, used most places, is boring. I think shit was just about out of gas in 1973. But, by placing the shit in front of people, "shit people", the conscious use of poor grammer raises the lowly shit to what many would refer to as comedy gold. Think Mr.Show, rather than l33t speak.

Now, to change gears, yes, I know the bigger fallout sites have been around many years, so already the conversations on what makes fallout, fallout, and how Special was made to reflect turn based gaming, yada yada yada, have been had. So, I see now some threads here contain potential landmines of subjects talked to death. Fair enough. I'm not a big fan of the redundant, myself. Which is why I've been taking little stabs at subjects that I've failed to encounter in the days post F3 announcement. Before my sorry little F3 improvements thread, I only saw several pages of "ohnoes" about Bethsoft nabbing up the license. I wasn't trying to troll your board, just making conversation.

And I would argue going first person was not a natural evolution to Metroid. A big part of its charm was the platforming elements, and that never makes a good leap to first person. Metroid succeeded despite the move to fps, not because of it. Many fans, myself included, while happy with Metroid Prime, would have also been content with an amped up sidescrolling update.
I think if F3 is to work, it will be against all odds, because SPECIAL is out the window in a real time fps. Why have a perception if you aim with the mouse?

Hrm. I was driving to Elk City Oklahoma yesterday, which is about as close to the wasteland as you can get. Orange dust was drifting across the road, and I was the only car in sight. It was a little after 8pm, so everything was yellow and orange. If F3 is first person, which sadly seems to be the case, it needs a car. And if the car is used in real time, allowing the player to drive miles and miles thru the lonesome wastes (and if bethsoft can do anything, it's make big ass maps that go on for years) on route to some massive bunker, or simply exploring, then perhaps F3 can retain some of it's atmosphere. What to do when the player leaves the car, I'm worried about.
If it's just dirty, dusty dues ex, with points gained by repetition, then I am doomed.

And yes, RPGcodex, I'm a poor, poor speller. Without a spellcheck function, I'm doomed to blather in pidgin english. I would take my little rants into an external spellchecker, but really, a gaming forum is too informal to bother.

manco

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

No, I'm fine with people responding with yes, or no. It's okay if you are still set against F3. I was making conversation, is all.

I'm not exactly set against it, but I would rather not see Fallout 3 being a major change from the first two games, nor would I like to see it be a rather shallow experience like Morrowind was. I'd rather see NO Fallout 3 than a bad one, so I am a little concerned at this point.

I wasn't trying to troll your board, just making conversation.

Fair enough. There's been so many lately with the silver style boys and the bethesda boys.

I think if F3 is to work, it will be against all odds, because SPECIAL is out the window in a real time fps. Why have a perception if you aim with the mouse?

Well, the problem is that you end up with double jeopardy if you try to make it work with mouse aiming. You end up having to aim just to get the interface working, then still have to deal with a roll.

If F3 is first person, which sadly seems to be the case, it needs a car. And if the car is used in real time, allowing the player to drive miles and miles thru the lonesome wastes (and if bethsoft can do anything, it's make big ass maps that go on for years) on route to some massive bunker, or simply exploring, then perhaps F3 can retain some of it's atmosphere. What to do when the player leaves the car, I'm worried about.
If it's just dirty, dusty dues ex, with points gained by repetition, then I am doomed.

Yeah, I personally would rather see Fallout 3 not become a driving through the wasteland game. If they do that, I think it'll end up being more boring than Morrowind. We're talking about America here, and if you're actually having to drive around parts of America to get from location to location to find the pockets of humanity that still exist, then Fallout 3 is just going to suck ass.

I think you're right, though, if they do it first person, that's what we've going to be facing. Fallout 3: The Driving Experience Across America.

 

[StraitLacedDeviant]

I'm a post modern curser....

... by placing the shit in front of people, "shit people", the conscious use of poor grammer raises the lowly shit to what many would refer to as comedy gold.

Unless 'many' is referring to a nickname for manco, and your reffering to yourself in the third person, then no that doesn't qualify as comedy gold. The only time I would laugh at that use of the word shit would be if it came from the mouth of a 3 year old child.

Also if you conciously choose to rearrange curse words to attain a post modern level of comedy gold you are missing the entire point and root nature of the words.

Apart from that I don't really care about metroid and drivng a car in first person in a fallout game is a horror beyond all imagining, shit.

 

[Walks with the Snails]

Random poster, I watched Mr. Show. I enjoyed Mr. Show. I taped episodes of Mr. Show. Random poster, you're no Mr. Show.

 

[Brocken Jr.]

Haha, reading this argument with hindsight.