Game News RobG on Fallout and Bethesda

[Diogo Ribeiro]

A troll is someone who creates controversy just for the hell of it, without adding nothing to the conversation. Kind of like our 'friend' Worm, or the other clueless flamebait Fain.

 

[plin]

A troll is someone who creates controversy just for the hell of it, without adding nothing to the conversation. Kind of like our 'friend' Worm, or the other clueless flamebait Fain.

ahh, I see.

 

[Transcendent One]

Wow they are real fans. I'm sorry, but you'd have to be real dumb to confuse Fallout with Arcanum, so that's not the case. And they think Tactics is representative of the series. W.t.f. Bethesda just keeps on digging itself deeper and deeper, and hopefully soon it'll shup Bethesda "give them a chance" fanbois.

 

[plin]

Wow they are real fans. I'm sorry, but you'd have to be real dumb to confuse Fallout with Arcanum, so that's not the case. And they think Tactics is representative of the series. W.t.f. Bethesda just keeps on digging itself deeper and deeper, and hopefully soon it'll shup Bethesda "give them a chance" fanbois.

Well, just be glad he's not working on FO3. He's working on Call of cluthcu (or whatever it's called) I think. Isn't he? ISNT HEEEEE????? :evil:

 

[Lasakon]

It seems that the number of Morrowind fanbois has been decreasing in the Fallout threads. That will of course change once someone says it has to be Turn-based again.

 

[Amerestatistic]

EDIT: Somehow I missed an entire page and didn't notice somebody already responded to Phin about the troll thing.

 

[corvax]

i think robg was refering to turn based combat in tactics and his poor grammar skills made it seem as if he was referring about fallout 1 & 2...at leas i hope...nevertheless he is a very clueless guy...should think before posting...

 

[wintermane]

Re: um

Actauly fallout 2 and I think even fallout 1 had a real time mode and it was in fact rather frantic paced. Id have to install it again to refind out how to activeate it tho its been awhile.

I hope it wasn't too troublesome to leave the Bethesda boards and come here for a while to troll.

Naa if I was trolling id be far more annoying. Its possible im merging many of the games including arcanum and all and that I just remember SOME game with rt. As I said ill have to reinstall fallout 2 to check and make sure.

As for comming from the beth forums up until they announced fallout 3 I hadnt actauly been on the forum much in the last few years. Beth is a great company but they tend to do things VERY slowly so its not exactly an exciting nail biter.

 

[plin]

Re: um

Actauly fallout 2 and I think even fallout 1 had a real time mode and it was in fact rather frantic paced. Id have to install it again to refind out how to activeate it tho its been awhile.

I hope it wasn't too troublesome to leave the Bethesda boards and come here for a while to troll.

Naa if I was trolling id be far more annoying. Its possible im merging many of the games including arcanum and all and that I just remember SOME game with rt. As I said ill have to reinstall fallout 2 to check and make sure.

As for comming from the beth forums up until they announced fallout 3 I hadnt actauly been on the forum much in the last few years. Beth is a great company but they tend to do things VERY slowly so its not exactly an exciting nail biter.

Arcanum had super fast real time, and the turn-based wasn't all that great (but it was better than the real-time), so I'm guessing that's what you're remembering. Or maybe you're thinking of Lionheart, I heard that has really fast real time as well, but I don't think it has turn-based. I've never played it.

 

[Lasakon]

Maybe he was being subliminal. He was both bad mouthing Fallout and Arcanum at the same time. They want to discourage the Troika liking over there. Now if only everyone else there were to express their hate of Turn-Based.

 

[dagamer667]

Flame me if you want, but I always thought that the Fallout's implementation of TB is partly responsible for giving TB a bad name in general. Too many low-level fights were dragged out longer than they should've been thanks to enemies taking their sweet time for their turns. I still remember that god-awful dungeon in Fallout 2 where you had to blast away 30 or so ants. At least my small arms skill was decent enough that the distance didn't matter much. Contrast that to ToEE, whose TB implementation is miles ahead of FO. In there, creatures that were adjacent to each other on the time bar moved simultaneously instead of going only when the previous creature finishes its turn. Because of that, the game didn't bog down too much even if there were over 20 creatures involved.

 

[Lasakon]

I was not at all aware that Turn-Based gameplay had a bad name. I guess i should hang out on Gamefaqs more.

 

[plin]

They want to discourage liking troika over there? How?
I've seen no dev over there say they don't like or want to make turn-based. All I've seen is a PR guy saying he doubts they would do isometric, that they will use TES IV's engine (technology), and a developer coming out on the forums saying "it's 100% speculation, if anything, we are just talking right now. Nothing is decided. Have patience, info will come, but don't excpect it to be within weeks".

It looks like the guy just doesn't know what he's talking about (just confusion). Maybe he played the games when they came out, liked them, but didn't like them so much that he remembered everything about them. I dunno about you, but I've had plenty of mixed memories like that, but of cource, not about my all time favorite games.

oh welsy, if that's not what you were getting at, forget my post. I'm irrelavent.

 

[Transcendent One]

Flame me if you want, but I always thought that the Fallout's implementation of TB is partly responsible for giving TB a bad name in general *snip*

It's not Fallout's implementation of TB. It's its level design that was quite mediocre at times.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Flame me if you want, but I always thought that the Fallout's implementation of TB is partly responsible for giving TB a bad name in general. Too many low-level fights were dragged out longer than they should've been thanks to enemies taking their sweet time for their turns.

I think the bad reactions towards turnbased are mostly aimed at console games in general, which in their beginings did not had combat related options, like a faster animation slider (curiously, something that Fallout does have, so it was only as slow as people wanted it to). That i am aware of, very few console games have options that deal directly with animation speed in turnbased games, and its understandable why it would warrant certain criticism from them.

I still remember that god-awful dungeon in Fallout 2 where you had to blast away 30 or so ants. At least my small arms skill was decent enough that the distance didn't matter much.

The problem is that this example relates to bad dungeone design, not turnbased itself. At that point in the game, players shouldn't be fighting large amounts of low level ants.

Contrast that to ToEE, whose TB implementation is miles ahead of FO. In there, creatures that were adjacent to each other on the time bar moved simultaneously instead of going only when the previous creature finishes its turn. Because of that, the game didn't bog down too much even if there were over 20 creatures involved.

I've been bringing that up in threads that deal with improving Fallout's future combat model.

 

[wintermane]

Re: um

Actauly fallout 2 and I think even fallout 1 had a real time mode and it was in fact rather frantic paced. Id have to install it again to refind out how to activeate it tho its been awhile.

I hope it wasn't too troublesome to leave the Bethesda boards and come here for a while to troll.

Naa if I was trolling id be far more annoying. Its possible im merging many of the games including arcanum and all and that I just remember SOME game with rt. As I said ill have to reinstall fallout 2 to check and make sure.

As for comming from the beth forums up until they announced fallout 3 I hadnt actauly been on the forum much in the last few years. Beth is a great company but they tend to do things VERY slowly so its not exactly an exciting nail biter.

Arcanum had super fast real time, and the turn-based wasn't all that great (but it was better than the real-time), so I'm guessing that's what you're remembering. Or maybe you're thinking of Lionheart, I heard that has really fast real time as well, but I don't think it has turn-based. I've never played it.

Definetly not lionhart thats for sure that had no turn based. While I liked lionheart for the setting and such it just came out all wrong in implimentation.
As for fallout 2 now that I think about it it couldnt have had rt as an option because that required automatic return attacks wich it of course didnt have so it must have been arcanum and other games.

Still one big reason i loved rt was that 50 rats plodding combat thang. Tho in general I just wana slap the dev upside the head for putting 50 rats in any one spot if its turn based.

Im afraid im the reason devs change games like they do I and soo many like me forget the details of every game we play and just remember all the games as one big mushy goop. As such when fallout 3 comes if it only had turn based many "fans" would wonder... er wasnt there some key I pressed that sped this all up? alt z? alt control v? left right square triangle? Does the unthinkable and reads the manual.... ARGH!!!!!!

 

[Seven]

I've seen no dev over there say they don't like or want to make turn-based. All I've seen is a PR guy saying he doubts they would do isometric, that they will use TES IV's engine (technology), and a developer coming out on the forums saying "it's 100% speculation, if anything, we are just talking right now. Nothing is decided. Have patience, info will come, but don't excpect it to be within weeks".

Can you honestly put or suggest that it'll be TB with a straight face. Lets be real, they're usig the same engine as TES4, right? Now unless they designed the engine with TB in mind there's almost no chance that FO3 will be TB. Why have false hope, or spread false hope?

 

[plin]

I've seen no dev over there say they don't like or want to make turn-based. All I've seen is a PR guy saying he doubts they would do isometric, that they will use TES IV's engine (technology), and a developer coming out on the forums saying "it's 100% speculation, if anything, we are just talking right now. Nothing is decided. Have patience, info will come, but don't excpect it to be within weeks".

Can you honestly put or suggest that it'll be TB with a straight face. Lets be real, they're usig the same engine as TES4, right? Now unless they designed the engine with TB in mind there's almost no chance that FO3 will be TB. Why have false hope, or spread false hope?

I can. Why is turn-based so hard to believe? All they have to do is program it in. How I picture it is, the TES engine was probably not designed specifically for TES alone, but for any games they need to make in this time period. Why make a new engine if you only use it for one game? Anyways, I see it as a blank slate. The 3D graphics engine in itself doesn't start out as real-time or turn-based, or anything. It's just a bunch of possibilities and limitations that you can run wild with. Iit's whatever you decide to use the graphics engine for on that project. You program it in. No chance? Give me a break.

It's not really false hope unless you can read the future. But kudos to you if you can. And I'm not hoping for anything, I'm waiting for more concrete information instead of half-assed bullshit.

 

[Transcendent One]

Oh right, real time is so rare that an engine using real time would only work for one game

 

[Odin]

Re: um

As for fallout 2 now that I think about it it couldnt have had rt as an option because that required automatic return attacks wich it of course didnt have so it must have been arcanum and other games.

Still one big reason i loved rt was that 50 rats plodding combat thang. Tho in general I just wana slap the dev upside the head for putting 50 rats in any one spot if its turn based.

Im afraid im the reason devs change games like they do I and soo many like me forget the details of every game we play and just remember all the games as one big mushy goop. As such when fallout 3 comes if it only had turn based many "fans" would wonder... er wasnt there some key I pressed that sped this all up? alt z? alt control v? left right square triangle? Does the unthinkable and reads the manual.... ARGH!!!!!!

Jesus man, Fallout 1 and 2 had only Turn Based combat, Fallout Tactics had CTB and TB. CTB was a "psudo" Real Time combat mode.

I sense a troll...

 

[Seven]

I can. Why is turn-based so hard to believe? All they have to do is program it in. How I picture it is, the TES engine was probably not designed specifically for TES alone, but for any games they need to make in this time period. Why make a new engine if you only use it for one game? Anyways, I see it as a blank slate. The 3D graphics engine in itself doesn't start out as real-time or turn-based, or anything. It's just a bunch of possibilities and limitations that you can run wild with. Iit's whatever you decide to use the graphics engine for on that project. You program it in. No chance? Give me a break.

It's not really false hope unless you can read the future. But kudos to you if you can. And I'm not hoping for anything, I'm waiting for more concrete information instead of half-assed bullshit.

Now I'm no programmer, but the way that I'm led to believe how it works (game engines) is that they're designed with specific rules and actions in mind. Now seeing as how this engine was designed for TES4 a few problems converting it to SPECIAL and TB could arise. I'm sure you also realize the possible problems that this could cause, right? As a result RT and a modified SPECIAL (or perhaps no SPECIAL at all) seem likely to avoid the afore mentioned problems. Also given that we've been told that Bethesda's sticking to what they to best I believe that it's very reasonable to make certain assumptions related to a RT FO3. So no I can't read the future, but I can make some reasoned assumptions.

 

[plin]

Re: um

I take that back.

 

[plin]

I can. Why is turn-based so hard to believe? All they have to do is program it in. How I picture it is, the TES engine was probably not designed specifically for TES alone, but for any games they need to make in this time period. Why make a new engine if you only use it for one game? Anyways, I see it as a blank slate. The 3D graphics engine in itself doesn't start out as real-time or turn-based, or anything. It's just a bunch of possibilities and limitations that you can run wild with. Iit's whatever you decide to use the graphics engine for on that project. You program it in. No chance? Give me a break.

It's not really false hope unless you can read the future. But kudos to you if you can. And I'm not hoping for anything, I'm waiting for more concrete information instead of half-assed bullshit.

Now I'm no programmer, but the way that I'm led to believe how it works (game engines) is that they're designed with specific rules and actions in mind. Now seeing as how this engine was designed for TES4 a few problems converting it to SPECIAL and TB could arise. I'm sure you also realize the possible problems that this could cause, right? As a result RT and a modified SPECIAL (or perhaps no SPECIAL at all) seem likely to avoid the afore mentioned problems. Also given that we've been told that Bethesda's sticking to what they to best I believe that it's very reasonable to make certain assumptions related to a RT FO3. So no I can't read the future, but I can make some reasoned assumptions.

Heh, yeah, I'm no programmer either. But I don't see where problems would arise. One of the main reasons is because I look at a game like half-life, and they have modded that shit to hell to make all sorts of games with all sorts of rules. And half-life was mostly just a simple, mindless shooter for the most part. Like Worms HL, a turned based mod. Then there's a car racing game. There's a stradegy mod (natural selection). Since it's been awhile since HL, and that's all dated tech, I don't see why professionals couldn't do this with their own engines. I mean, I don't see why there would be limits of not being able to have special and turn-based.

But yeah, I could be completely and utterly wrong since I'm not a programmer.

 

[wintermane]

um

I guess what makes me different from many here is im one of the bulk of game fans and not one of the more detail oriented fans. When I liked star wars I still didnt know much about any of its details. When I loved autodual I still didnt remember how all of it worked. And while I love fallout I dont realy remember everything about it and just love the setting and the way it felt at least somewhat like I was in a post apocalytic wasteland.

I have always enjoyed stuff like mad max carwars 2000 autodual carmageddon wasteland.

I am just glad ANY fallout LIKE game id actauly wana buy is in the works. If it sells well maybe someone else will lisence it from bethesda( im thinking they will get the total ownership sooner or later if it sells well) and make some more old school games with it.

I dont expect fallout 3 to be iso I dont expect it to be turn based I do expect it to be alot of fun and well worth my money and well worth an expansion or 3. Oh and well worth a fallout 4. And for me thats more then good enough for now.

 

[pseudo intellectual]

As much as I try to put a positive spin on Bethsoft's acquisition of the Fallout license, I can't help but draw parallels to the selection of Will Smith for "I, Robot".

No matter how good the director, and Alex Proyas has put out some quality movies, when you are handed Will Smith as your leading man, art has been defeated by commerce.

Instead of an intelligent thriller, you now have a dumbed down, action comedy sprinkled with witticisms such as, ""Aw, Hell Naw!" and "oh no you di'nt!"

In essence we've been handed the Will Smith of game developers, and if this weren't bad enough, we're confronted with Bethsoft's apparent insouciance in the face of legitimate criticism by the Fallout community.

To add insult to injury, Bethsoft trots out beta testers and assistant producers in an effort to lecture us for making what amounts to transparently valid complaints. I'm not sure what their strategy here is, to mollify us, to deflect our growing animosity or to engender sympathy in order to recruit a fifth column of support in the form of senselessly hostile simpletons such as “plin”.