Vince D Weller does Fallout 3...

[Jaesun]

Very well written, and excellent review. Playing Devils Advocate:

Electricity, pre-war electronic equipment, powered and still working computers (just think about that for a second), working cola & snack machines, weapons, ammo, scrap metal (needed by many), and even unlooted first aid boxes are everywhere.

Working computers are in F1/2... though exclusivly within vaults.
There are working Nuka Cola machines in Fallout 2. (See Kalamath).

just a small minor nit pick. You probably should have mentioned that people suddenly were able to ressurect entire power grids of the city and make computers work... or something like that.

Most hats, including a simple bandana, increase your Perception (+1). Putting on Lincoln's hat imbues you with higher Intelligence and improves your speech. In other words, clothes are your typical magically enchanted fantasy fare.

There were the Sun Glasses in Fallout 2....

But yea, they really did go overboard with this. It was COOL!


Well done.

 

[mahdi]

Yeah but the sunglasses only improved your charisma, which isn't that far of stretch.

 

[bhlaab]

IIRC, weren't the "enchanted clothes" stuff going to be in Van Buren anyway?

 

[Andyman Messiah]

Yeah but the sunglasses only improved your charisma, which isn't that far of stretch.

I wonder why Mason never seemed that charismatic even though he wore them?

edit: Also, they were "mirror shades" or something. Most definitely a step above your average sunglasses.

 

[Dire Roach]

Combat in FO3 is not too challenging (at least in normal difficulty) as long as you steadily pump five or so points at every level up into one ranged weapon skill. Most of the time you are attacked by either one or two opponents. Melee attackers will rarely ever reach you with their heads intact thanks to VATS, and when they do, it's fairly easy to avoid their swings by side stepping them. When faced with ranged attackers, which always have a remarkably high degree of accuracy, you can take cover behind any rock, column, wooden fence, or just any object as long as it blocks their line of sight and it's not one of the thousands of undetonated nuclear cars made of flammable materials strewn across the wasteland. Once you are behind cover, ranged attackers will either run to your location or, if that's not possible, try to wait you out. If they run to you, then all you have to do is wait until they come close and their heads become visible, which at a close range will guarantee that you will have a 95% of hitting it in VATS (unless there's something partially obstructing it from view). If the enemy decides to wait you out, just crouch into stealth mode and watch as their ADD kicks in after 30 seconds or so, when the "caution" status goes away and they stop actively looking for you. Once their backs are turned to you, one well placed shot to their heads or torso will usually take more than half their life away or just kill them instantly due to the overpowered sneak attack critical mechanic.

The only times I died was when facing certain special circumstances like being surrounded by hordes of mirelurks/enclave soldiers/fire ants, super mutants wielding missile launchers, and one behemoth encounter out in the wastes where there was no one else to distract it and nowhere for me to hide.

All that aside I found ranged weapons to be incredibly clunky and inaccurate when used outside of VATS, even with a 100% skill and more than 90% weapon condition. It's hard to score a headshot on a raider from medium range, even if they're just walking at a slow pace, with a scoped sniper rifle. The fact that the weapon is scoped doesn't even seem to make any difference in terms of VATS percentages; a scope-less hunting rifle is just as accurate. Some weapon decay rates are also pretty ridiculous like that of the combat shotgun, which seems to go down by more than 1% with each shot. It's almost System Shock 2-esque except you need to waste a lot more ammo per enemy. Armor didn't seem to suffer from this as severely though.

 

[Twinfalls]

That's an excellent review.

On the difficulty of the game, it surprises me that so many people are playing it on 'normal' rather than the more difficult levels, given that everybody has heard the 'it's easy' complaint, and given it's a Bethesda game for god's sake! It is most certainly not too easy on 'difficult'. It get's easy-ish when you hit level 10 with some good gear, but there are still plenty of moments where you die unexpectedly (especially indoors if cornered, or for example suddenly finding a SM behemoth tower above you as happened to me last evening when taking a litte 'toy' I found).

It's a good, sometimes very good, game overall. I still find it can be terrific fun on a sprawling action-romp level, but yeesh the wasted opportunity. Megaton is reminiscent of Gothic I's Old Camp in look and feel, yet where the heck are all the interesting quests, tied in with the characters and social structure of the place? Go 'click' on the bomb, an idiotic survival guide, and that's it??

The criticisms about writing and setting are spot-on. What a great shame, what this could have been... You can almost hear Liam Neeson cringe when he describes the GECK, so unimaginative and perfunctory is the dialogue.

Shooting old rusty cars results in even more nuclear explosions, which makes you wonder if there really was a big War or if a simple car accident caused a chain reaction of exploding nuclear cars across the States.

 

[Zomg]

Do Storm of Zehir.

 

[Barrow_Bug]

Do Storm of Zehir.

My thoughts exactly. I've just read VD's review of MOTB. Man, I had to wipe myself down after all the gushing.

 

[Volourn]

So did VD.

 

[Longshanks]

Very comprehensive, and even entertaining in parts. I have a slightly less positive opinion of the game (mediocre rather than good), even just comparing it with its contemporaries I feel that ME, TW, NWN2OTB all better achieved what they were aiming for and that GTA IV is a much better "open-world action game", FO3 may have had some better elements, even more "RP" elements than some of the RPGs above, but the overall execution is so poor that it's at best mediocre). On a less objective level, the at times appalling dialogue made it difficult for me to enjoy the game or even complete it. I certainly won't be replaying it. On a personal level, I'd rate the game as "not worth playing", and I wouldn't have had my brother not bought it, but that's because I have a strong aversion to terrible dialogue and blatant dumbing down and am not interested in big-world exploration (not in the form seen in most RPGs anyway).

But that does not detract from the review. Differing opinions are expected, what I look for is solid analysis, and this review definitely provides that.

 

[Hazelnut]

Very well written, and excellent review. Playing Devils Advocate:

Electricity, pre-war electronic equipment, powered and still working computers (just think about that for a second), working cola & snack machines, weapons, ammo, scrap metal (needed by many), and even unlooted first aid boxes are everywhere.

Working computers are in F1/2... though exclusivly within vaults.
There are working Nuka Cola machines in Fallout 2. (See Kalamath).

Yes, but they weren't "everywhere". The sentence has such a long list that a lot of the elements seems disassociated from the "are everywhere", but the point is they were only found in certain special places unlike in FO3.

 

[SpaceKungFuMan]

I literally cannot see how so many people are calling this a good, or even a mediocre game. How are people able to get past the dialog? I mean, king's bounty has a broken translation, and even that game still has more natural sounding dialog on the whole. I really think FO3 is so poorly written as to be unplayable.

 

[NiM82]

I literally cannot see how so many people are calling this a good, or even a mediocre game. How are people able to get past the dialog? I mean, king's bounty has a broken translation, and even that game still has more natural sounding dialog on the whole. I really think FO3 is so poorly written as to be unplayable.

I just don't see what you see in the game VD. I just played up to going into megaton

If you've only got to Megaton, it would explain a lot - that's very early in. The better stuff tends to crop up sporadically, like Vince said, in side quests (which you mostly bump into when exploring the wastes). Megaton, in terms of dialogue and quests is probably one of the worst locations in the game.

I was close to giving up there, but it did improve quite noticeably once I got out and began exploring, scoping out little settlements to visit and side quests to do. The MQ though (and the ending) destroyed most of those gains for me, it's a much better game if you ignore that completely, even if it means not getting to see the BoS base and getting PA training.

 

[Vault Dweller]

On the contrary, MW had hundreds of quests strewn across the map, all of which had to be found using written directions...

Wasn't very difficult. You make it sound like that was a puzzle. "Go to Balmora, talk to X" - travel to Balmora, open the map, find a house with the X name, go there. That's all.

...different skills were needed to join certain factions...

In a game where you end up developing most skills.

I feel it does disappoint, and it seems to be one of the things people are highly praising, which doesn't make sense to me as many of the 85 locations are so bland or poorly realized.

Poorly realized comparing to Fallout and Arcanum, but more than decent comparing to DF, MW, Gothic, etc. That was my point.

I just don't see what you see in the game VD. I just played up to going into megaton...

The weakest part of the game. Doesn't represent the overall game well.

Over all, I think this game is much worse than Morrowind...

I disagree, but it's subjective.

Working computers are in F1/2... though exclusivly within vaults.

Exactly. It's one thing to find a working computer - one out of dozens dead ones - in a well protected vault with an autonomous power system. It's quote another to find a working computer in a semi-destroyed building or in a shack or in that raiders-infested super mart. They literally are everywhere. The reason is simple - to make science really useful, but it doesn't fit the setting and doesn't make much sense.

There were the Sun Glasses in Fallout 2....

Cool "mirror shades" sun glasses increasing your Charisma - funny and somewhat reasonable. FO3 clothes that increase agility, endurance, science, repair, speech, intelligence, etc are silly and inappropriate.

 

[janjetina]

FO3 clothes that increase agility, endurance, science, repair, speech, intelligence, etc are silly and inappropriate.

"Money, it's gotta be the shoes!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVDjNlGt ... re=related

 

[Naked Ninja]

Agree with the review, mostly, I am quite enjoying F3, it's a good game. Some weak aspects (dialogue and story, most notably), but the overall whole is good. The weak aspects keep it from being great though.

The beginning, Megaton, is the worst part of the game, let me just echo that. I was on the brink of putting F3 down permanently at that point. But I played a bit more, got part the stupid Atom Bomb quest, explored the wastes a bit more, it got much better.

I haven't really done much of the main quest though (lvl 8), I hear that is pretty crap. The exploration aspect is F3's strongest side, without a doubt.

 

[1eyedking]

What the hell? I was expecting a full rant and instead I'm treated with a pussified review.

Damn, VD, you bloody well know that skill checks in that game make you skip quests or earn more caps, rather than give different outcomes.

Gratuitous Example:
FO2
You're asked to hunt down Pretty Boy Lloyd by Salvatore. When you reach the bastard, "you can get Lloyd to tell you where the money is buried in Golgotha (which appears on your map), and kill him right away, or get him to come along with you (which is best, requires IN 6). You can intimidate him if you have ST 6, if you're wearing any kind of power or combat armour, if you're a Berserker, or if you have at least one follower. This way you can make him give you his money, and if you let him scamper you can still go and pick up the treasure, but Salvatore won't shower you with flowers. If you have Sneak 76% or Sneak tagged, you can tell Lloyd he can take off on his own, then follow him from New Reno to Golgotha. If you pass either a Sneak check or an Outdoorsman check, you'll find Lloyd having retrieved the cash (but not the Plastic Explosives) and making his way down across the map; he'll enter combat immediately when he spots you. If you fail both skill checks, you'll only find an empty fallout shelter and no Lloyd.

Down at Golgotha, if you came by yourself, you can't enter the grave if you come here before talking to Lloyd about it. If you came with Lloyd, you can tell him to dig, in which case you get the Plastic Explosive, or you can dig yourself, in which case the bomb goes off in your face and Lloyd attacks, or you can check for traps, in which case you may find the Plastic Explosive or set it off (to find it you should first pass a Sneak check or have IN 7 and Traps 51%, then have Traps 51% or pass a Traps check). If nothing went boom, you can choose to let Lloyd go down first (he attacks when you follow), go down first yourself (he attacks when you come back up, why didn't he make a run for it, the stupid git?), or tell him to go down, then throw the landmine in after him, which is fun ("Hey Lloyd! Catch!"), but costs you a Plastic Explosive. If you let him go down and then wait for him to come back up he'll escape somehow, so don't do that." (all from Per Jorner's walkthrough)

FO3
You're asked to find out how much radiation hurts. You can either skip the quest through a Medicine check, or get yourself a large dose of rads. Optionally get even more rads for extra candy. Also: "[PERCEPTION] If I listen closely, I can hear my genes crying." (tagging conversation options with the skill check involved is blatant attention-whoring of the "look we haev liek skill chocks lol" kind). Why can't you poison someone else with radiation? Why can't you bring her a ghoul (there's Bob the bartender close by...)? Maybe find some clipboard with details? Quests seriously lack thought, intelligence and imagination.

Ehem. Both of these quests are relatively menial (and I'm being generous since Moira's is actually a showcase quest). I won't even get into comparing quests of larger magnitude such as the Ghost Farm (multiple checks and LOTS of solutions with varying amounts of reward/success involved) against Blood Ties (no checks, three solutions that are more or less the same, flaming sword reward). It's retarded.

Also, that passage I've made bold is another thing that Bethesda utterly failed at: there are no in-game knowledge checks. The moment you enter Megaton, you can go about asking to disarm the bomb without even its mention.

So go die VD, you wuss.

 

[DarkSign]

I guess that's what I'm puzzled by. How many years have we all poured over the VanBuren design docs. The same docs that practically give the ABC's of making quests with different approaches to them. Stealth Boy, Action Boy, Science Boy were all designed for with a fair amount of variety and consequence.

Are people finding that Beth reached the level of even those VanBuren design docs?

 

[St. Toxic]

What the hell? I was expecting a full rant and instead I'm treated with a pussified review. So go die VD, you wuss.

Seconded. And double that for everyone who's currently going "Oh jolly good, ol' bean! You really hit the nail on that one! Excellent review, chap, bravo! Just the shakedown it deserves!" -- the Codex really needs to grow a pair.

 

[Naked Ninja]

The problem with your answer 1Eyed is while yes, F3 doesn't reach the level of that quest you mentioned by any stretch...neither does 95% of the other games everyone calls RPGs. Many of which people call "good" or "great".

So if you hate that it doesn't live up to the potential of it's forefathers, well, whatever. Deal with the angst.

But some of us are looking at it in the context of the other 95% AS WELL, and it compares fairly favorably. Some aspects suck, sure, but you can say that of all RPGs. Taken as a whole package, compared to the entire genre, it rates in the top 70%, IMHO. Like I said, good, not great.

This is why you are all experiencing this disconnect when your internet heroes review F3 and rant for a bit about the lost potential then say "but it's quite good, nevertheless". Because they're honest with themselves, maintain some perspective and realize that, if you compare it with the RPG genre instead of only against your lovely daydream of what Black Isle's F3 could have been, it compares fairly favorably.

 

[MetalCraze]

Agreed with everything except the last part, about F3 being the best Beth game since Daggerfall. It's like Morrowind never happened....

the best Beth game is like the shitty usual game. That isn't any achievement

What the hell? I was expecting a full rant and instead I'm treated with a pussified review. So go die VD, you wuss.

Seconded. And double that for everyone who's currently going "Oh jolly good, ol' bean! You really hit the nail on that one! Excellent review, chap, bravo! Just the shakedown it deserves!" -- the Codex really needs to grow a pair.

VD has changed pretty much since he gone wide with that "Developer" affair of his. He became pussified, just check ITF and you'll see. I like the shift from "oh no they are raping Fallout" stance to "just keep telling yourself that there were no RPGs before F3 and you'll enjoy it". Now add to this his support of Bioware's rape of customers - so I'm not surprised he says something good about one of the most shallow games to ever pretend to have RPG in its genre name.

 

[Elwro]

I like the review and subscribe to most of the views expressed in it. This will save me some time in writing my own opinion :D

I just wanted to say that my robot butler only gave me about 5 flasks of purified water and despite the fact that circa a dozen days have passed still refuses to give me more. In my game it isn't an unlimited source of money and karma.

And Megaton's crater, if you believe one of the NPCs, has been created by something else than the bomb - crashing planes, iirc.

I'm also continually short on ammo and cash; in my experience, the game is quite challenging.

 

[Sarvis]

Megaton is reminiscent of Gothic I's Old Camp in look and feel, yet where the heck are all the interesting quests, tied in with the characters and social structure of the place? Go 'click' on the bomb, an idiotic survival guide, and that's it??

No, that isn't it. There are at least a few more quests there that I've found... such as helping to repair leaks, and trying to help an addict get off drugs.

The thing is, not everything is listed in your official quest log and it's not always obvious when a quest is available. I didn't find the addict thing until I happened to be in the water plant looking for the maintenance guy, and the addict walks in in the middle of the night. I followed him and found out all kinds of nice stuff, and eventually was able to try and talk him out of his addiction.

I failed miserably, but my speech skill sucks so....

 

[Vault Dweller]

What the hell? I was expecting a full rant and instead I'm treated with a pussified review.

I gave you my honest opinion. If you want a rant, write one.

Damn, VD, you bloody well know that skill checks in that game make you skip quests or earn more caps, rather than give different outcomes.

And?

Gratuitous FO2 Example...

Were all quests like that? No. Most quests? No. So, we are comparing one of the best implemented quests in FO2 to one of the worst in FO3. Makes sense.

How about "Rescue Nagor's dog, Smoke, from the wilds"? Or "Kill the evil plants that infest Hakunin's garden"? "Get book from Derek"? "Deliver a meal to Smitty for Mom."? Or even "Get permission from Metzger for gang war"?

I'm eagerly awaiting your insightful comments.

...and I'm being generous since Moira's is actually a showcase quest...

Because you said so?

I won't even get into comparing quests of larger magnitude such as the Ghost Farm (multiple checks and LOTS of solutions with varying amounts of reward/success involved) against Blood Ties (no checks, three solutions that are more or less the same, flaming sword reward). It's retarded.

And the ghost farm isn't? Give me a break.

So go die VD...

After you.

 

[Callaxes]

I don't want to see another stupid thread about F3, so I'll post this here:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/ ... -Fallout-3