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MMOs died out?

Norfleet

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Jun 3, 2005
Messages
12,250
You know, somehow I get this strange idea that because MMORPGs were the unclaimed successor to MUDs which itself were inspired heavily from tabletops, the originators of MMOs never thought about putting fighting game combos in because that would be retarded.
Well, not quite true. We DID think of putting fighting game combos in MUDs, but for the most part, network conditions didn't make this terribly viable. We did actually have a MUD that turned combat into an ASCII version of Street Fighter, though.

So it's not so much that we didn't want to, so much that technical issues stopped us from doing it...and frankly, still sorta do: Overly actiony combat doesn't work too well in higher ping times.
 

Interstellar

Literate
Joined
Dec 20, 2018
Messages
7
lol mmo isn't dead or dying. I've been playing Lineage 2 since like I was born and now playing Lineage 2 Classic on Skelth (European official server). A lot of ppl are playing L2, a lot of people are playing other MMOs. I would never say that MMO died out.
 

Angthoron

Arcane
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
13,056
Elder Scrolls Online. This is probably the least offensive one and actually enjoyable to a degree. In fact, I think it's a better Elder Scrolls game than Oblivion/Skyrim. That's not a grand accomplishment, but if you're ever in a Jigsaw type torture scenario where you must choose your poison of an Elder Scrolls title post-Morrowind, go with this one.

Wow, you're the first person I know that hasn't fallen catatonic in the first two hours of this.
 

Roqua

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Dumbfuck Repressed Homosexual In My Safe Space
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YES!
Anyone know if there is any real mmorpgs being made that aren't focused on survival and crafting or MOBA and this nonsensical shit? Real mmorpgs. The only two I think may fit are the two super hero ones. But that can't be it. There has to be others, right? I think Star Citizen has land-based gameplay now. Is that themepark based and developed with real, meaningful chardev or just a minor feature to give people something to do besides space stuff?
 

notkonoyo

Barely Literate
Joined
Dec 26, 2018
Messages
4
Going casual/going mobile - yes. Dead - not so much. Also note that most of the MMOs you've been hearing in the last decades about were RPGs of some sort, like lineage 2, wow, etc, and devs are usually aiming at other genres nowadays, which may be not the best choice for MMO worth speaking about for more than week around their launch, they tend to be more of a single-player experience anyway as someone noticed here as well.
And it's actually not that easy to spread the word that the old titles still have full servers with active community, reviewing older games won't get your website too much of views.
So advertising got smaller, and it's funny how I heard about lineage again when read the ad on delivered pizza.
Don't hear about new exciting MMOs - just jump on the old one you never played before.
 

Phaserlight

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Dec 11, 2012
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Boca Raton, FL
The next step of evolution
1. The virtual reality codings need to get good enough to run 3D MMORPG.
2. The toolbox need to be advanced enough so modders can make custom models on their own fast enough.
3. Remake golden games.
4. Profit.

Presto



Good luck with #2 though.
 

laclongquan

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Searching for my kidnapped sister
The next step of evolution
1. The virtual reality codings need to get good enough to run 3D MMORPG.
2. The toolbox need to be advanced enough so modders can make custom models on their own fast enough.
3. Remake golden games.
4. Profit.

Presto



Good luck with #2 though.


I can see right there two aspect need to upgrade

1.a. Extra investment in data input accessory. Voice command, hand glove (or finger ring) to allow typing and finger-mouse.
1.b. Extra investment in a 3D gaming frame, in particular neck protection. You dont want neck muscle abuse.
 
Joined
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don't bullshit me with this "saturated market" bullshit. tell me how i'm supposed to replace neocron and fallen earth after their loss, if the market is so saturated.
the point is that 99% of the mmorpgs have been shit: "warcraft sold a shittilion despite offering *less* than your average mmorpg, we must try too!", not understanding that wacraft gained his numbers thanks to retarded blind fanbois, millions of account with no more than 20 minutes on them and tens of millions of chinese accounts which paid 4 peanuts per month.
 

Rahdulan

Omnibus
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don't bullshit me with this "saturated market" bullshit. tell me how i'm supposed to replace neocron and fallen earth after their loss, if the market is so saturated.
the point is that 99% of the mmorpgs have been shit: "warcraft sold a shittilion despite offering *less* than your average mmorpg, we must try too!", not understanding that wacraft gained his numbers thanks to retarded blind fanbois, millions of account with no more than 20 minutes on them and tens of millions of chinese accounts which paid 4 peanuts per month.

It's more like there is a fuckton of MMORPGs out there and they have saturated the market to a degree, but the problem is they're largely mutually interchangeable, with standout ones dying in obscurity or getting shut down. People still play the same old shit and perpetuate its continued existence while claiming they want something new and unique... that's been magically funded to be on the same level as themeparks that hold 90% of the genre and as such almost the entirety of all profits involved.
 
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i can't accept the analogy. jordan was a god, warcraft was a hack built on obtuse fanboys and shilling shills of shillitude because even when brand new it was as cookie-cutter and dull as it gets.
 

Kane

I have many names
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i can't accept the analogy. jordan was a god, warcraft was a hack built on obtuse fanboys and shilling shills of shillitude because even when brand new it was as cookie-cutter and dull as it gets.
I see you are one of the more enlightened members of our circle, brother. Certainly I don't share the optimism of the vidya author wrt WoW being good, in any shape or form and i agree that it was a mere hack surfing the fanboy-wave blizzard had build through previous games.

But the rest of the points in the vidya are correct. Also note this is from 2013. Today, you have basically two options:
  • Eve Online
  • Albion Online
If none of these 2 are up your alley the only option left is going underground and seek bitter revenge against the WoW-Empire by posting on RPGCodex dot com.
 
Last edited:

Gregz

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The Desert Wasteland
WoW Classic plays like a dream, and there are plenty of Everquest servers out there.

You don't hear about MMOs because people who are playing MMOs don't need to dildo around on here, they're too busy having fun.
 

Rahdulan

Omnibus
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WoW Classic plays like a dream, and there are plenty of Everquest servers out there.

You don't hear about MMOs because people who are playing MMOs don't need to dildo around on here, they're too busy having fun.

Real question is will these revivals be relevant at all for new future projects when it comes to design. I'd wager probably not and other companies will seethe because they don't have something of equal pedigree. Or will attempt their own throwback servers with whatever they can scrounge together. Hell, you already saw it with Rift Prime and ArcheAge: Unchained.
 

Gregz

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WoW Classic plays like a dream, and there are plenty of Everquest servers out there.

You don't hear about MMOs because people who are playing MMOs don't need to dildo around on here, they're too busy having fun.

Real question is will these revivals be relevant at all for new future projects when it comes to design. I'd wager probably not and other companies will seethe because they don't have something of equal pedigree. Or will attempt their own throwback servers with whatever they can scrounge together. Hell, you already saw it with Rift Prime and ArcheAge: Unchained.

MMOs are just like single-player titles, most of our favorites were made 20 years ago. The 'future' doesn't exist, all that exists are timeless classics. They're out there, all we need to do is find them and play them.
 
Last edited:

Kane

I have many names
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Real question is will these revivals be relevant at all for new future projects when it comes to design. I'd wager probably not and other companies will seethe because they don't have something of equal pedigree. Or will attempt their own throwback servers with whatever they can scrounge together. Hell, you already saw it with Rift Prime and ArcheAge: Unchained.

Dude. Rehashing an old thing is the very last thing a company does before it goes out of business. It's a direct admittance of a lack of vision, focus and functional decision making chains. It's a sign of decay, nothing more nothing less. Gaming companies are no exception to this.

If anything now is the time to attack Blizzard from all sides and move its corpse were it belongs: 20 inch below the ground.
 

Lyric Suite

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I don't think it's possible to kill a company like Blizzard, but we can dream.
 

KeighnMcDeath

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God there are a lot of youtube videos on MMOs. Best of, Worst of, Is it dying, Is xyz still worth playing.
Pay to Win
Subscription MMOs
Sandbox
West, East,

From what I've seen some of the newest can start out sort of strong and then drop to almost no one. Fuck, I didn't even know Scarlet Blade was picked up. Some players want games that end, some want open world (I guess that means go anywhere), etc etc etc. There's a graveyard of dead ones though. One thing I did enjoy viewing and finding out about the eastern MMOs (thanks to Aion but they're now inferior to later ones) is character customization for looks. Jesus Christ you can do some detailed shit. I crack up at some of the ugly fuck shit people make. And here I thought Perfect world in 2008 was something or Aion in 2013. I can't say I have the wifi speed to get any decent FPS on these newer games but at least I think I have the hardware to run most (after me bitching so much about not being able to run Bardstale on my old laptop). You know, fuck if I know much about MMOs since I play ultima 3-5 gfx style games. I did hear that Phantasy Star online 2 or w/e its called should be coming to the west.
 
Unwanted

a Goat

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Posting because bored, so probably nothing new(even I may have posted something similar already).

I think the big thing about MMO's is that you need super high investment to even survive. You can't just pick up 3rd party engine, basically all the games that did it failed, you have to develop your own, and when doing so you shouldn't focus as much on eyecandy as on performance, while at the same time the artists have to be aware on what are their limits because of that - I think it's made harder by the fact that teams these days are probably larger than they were 20 years ago. It's not a coincidence that the obvious king of the genre was already technologically backwards when it came out, but everything about its artstyle was about making the best out of what they could do and the game ran very well even on old hardware. So what you need is not just engine programmers and artists, but engine programmers and artists that can work together and make a coordinated effort to achieve the best possible quality. Then there comes the game proper, which has to have enough content to keep the playerbase around until they establish social links, which will carry them through content droughts, if these will happen. Again, this content can't be boring either, so again, quality, quality, quality, quality. Now what typical studio does when it has 100's of millions of dorra is that they grow big and then the coordination that exists in small teams and is needed for that initial quality dissolves. I think there simply will be no recovery for the genre.

Kickstarter may in the end be not enough either as we've already seen most of the big titles failing to meet their initial release date by 4+ years and I have a bad feeling that by the time they will actually come, the hype is just over, I've just checked on yt 2 that I personally had interest in - Camelot Unchained and Crowfall - and it's not like recent videos made about them have many views(20k tops on anything newer than 3 months). Of course they're still in some kind of alpha stages and so on but will they be able to get people who maybe even forgot they existed to play when the release eventually comes? Given the stretched development schedule, will they have enough money to do something as obvious these days as paying off few well known streamers to stream it for a week before and week after release? These games will depend on having high population willing to interact with people and I am afraid they may, in the end not get these people.
edit: I think the future of "crowdfunded MMO's" if they won't just die with current generation will be about using crowdfunding campaign not as measuring stick for investors or source of capital but as a part of marketing scheme used to get some tips in the jar that will be used as early preorder and used for final polish and additional marketing budget a year before release. People will eventually forget about even successful kickstarters unless they become famous for long dev time and unfulfilled promises.
 

Rahdulan

Omnibus
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I think the big thing about MMO's is that you need super high investment to even survive. You can't just pick up 3rd party engine, basically all the games that did it failed, you have to develop your own, and when doing so you shouldn't focus as much on eyecandy as on performance, while at the same time the artists have to be aware on what are their limits because of that - I think it's made harder by the fact that teams these days are probably larger than they were 20 years ago. It's not a coincidence that the obvious king of the genre was already technologically backwards when it came out, but everything about its artstyle was about making the best out of what they could do and the game ran very well even on old hardware. So what you need is not just engine programmers and artists, but engine programmers and artists that can work together and make a coordinated effort to achieve the best possible quality. Then there comes the game proper, which has to have enough content to keep the playerbase around until they establish social links, which will carry them through content droughts, if these will happen. Again, this content can't be boring either, so again, quality, quality, quality, quality. Now what typical studio does when it has 100's of millions of dorra is that they grow big and then the coordination that exists in small teams and is needed for that initial quality dissolves. I think there simply will be no recovery for the genre.

This is interesting when you look at Korean productions, though. I don't agree with their design principles, but they sure as hell are still pumping out MMORPGs on the regular and local genre industry almost runs on sunsetting older games so they can replace them with new ones... that will experience the same fate in couple of years by default. How are they doing it? And that's with pushing the graphical envelope at the same time when it comes to high profile titles.

Makes me wonder what they'll do now they're jumping on "story in MMORPGs" bandwagon about a decade after western titles.

 
Unwanted

a Goat

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This is interesting when you look at Korean productions, though. I don't agree with their design principles, but they sure as hell are still pumping out MMORPGs on the regular and local genre industry almost runs on sunsetting older games so they can replace them with new ones... that will experience the same fate in couple of years by default. How are they doing it? And that's with pushing the graphical envelope at the same time when it comes to high profile titles.
From what I've seen they're mostly failing to replace their older titles(first Lineage is still more popular than its successor or games that kind of aimed at taking a chunk of its pop and failed to do so), but a lot of their newer MMO's will probably focus on mobile because that's a better market given their business practices.
 

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