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A selected archive of George Ziets's Formspring

Roguey

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Back in 2013 I went through it and saved every answer that felt relevant to me. Fortunately for me this wasn't nearly as long as Sawyer's. Posting here for posterity.


The Kotaku Article mentions a *precision document* Obsidian do since the development of AP went so rough. Is this some kind of special document or did you guys just not do design documents before?

I think Feargus is referring to the high-level vision documents, representing the major “pillars” or core features of the game.

In my experience, these documents tend to be especially important when you’re designing a new game from scratch. On Obsidian’s earlier projects (before AP), the core gameplay had already been established, and the company‘s job was essentially to build new content within an existing framework. On KOTOR2, they were tweaking the original game’s systems and implementing a new story. The same could be said for NWN2, and it was certainly the case for Mask of the Betrayer.

We had plenty of design documents for those games, but we didn’t have to define our target audience or determine what the player actually *does* and why it’s fun. That requires a more sophisticated process of up-front planning and documentation that was needed for a game like AP - and DS3, as it turned out.


I've got one for you George: when I departed DS III in June 2009, the creative foundation you were laying was awesome. I expected another story masterpiece. But the final game (10/2011) didn't excite most critics with its story. What the heck happened? =)


Good question, Kevin. The DS3 story went through so many rewrites that I don’t remember exactly where it was when you left the company, but I’m sure it was early in the process – probably right after I finished the Ehb sourcebook.

My early drafts of the story were truer to my usual narrative tendencies. They were more personal - focused on the player – and they depicted a “grayer” version of the Legion. One of the storylines – possibly the one you remember – also included a lot more supernatural elements.

However, it was decided (above my pay grade) that we should keep the story focused on a threat that affected the nation or the world. Also, there was a desire to ensure that the Legion was clearly Good. I think the underlying impulse was to avoid a lot of narrative complexity, which makes sense in a franchise like Dungeon Siege.

So at that point, I started a long cycle of story revisions. Normally, the iteration process is where your story gets progressively stronger. But in this case, I remember feeling that we’d ended up with a weaker, more watered-down story than some of the earlier versions.

Why did that happen? In my opinion, it’s because we never fully resolved the tensions that were inherent in our high-level vision – marrying an action RPG with an Obsidian-style story. We wrestled with pacing, dialogue style, and the appropriate depth of story until the end of production. And we ended up in a bland midpoint between the two genres that pleased few people.

To our credit, I think we found the right balance when we made the expansion, Treasures of the Sun. Also, the narrative in TotS was more open-ended and exploratory, which I think worked a lot better for that style of game.


What exactly did you write in Mask of the Betrayer (Except for the Main Story)?


A lot of the content in Mulsantir and the Wells of Lurue (module B), mainly because I did the area designs for that part of the game. For example - the witches, the barkstring characters around the city, everyone associated with the Shelvedar Nuum plotline, just about everything in the Veil and Shadow Veil (except for the actors’ barks, which were written by Tony Evans), the scribe in the Death God’s Vault, the Okku plotline in Wells of Lurue, and probably other things that I’m forgetting.

For companions – parts of Safiya and Okku.

Also wrote the dream sequences, most of the lorebooks, and a lot of descriptive text.

Plus I did a consistency pass over all the writing in the game.


A while ago I asked a question about MotB and whether it was about religious persecution. If that wasn't your intention what were your intended aims and ideas when pursuing that storyline?


Some of my goals for MotB:

Create a personal story set against a backdrop of much larger events, where the characters’ motivations were human and believable.

Set up the PC as a stranger in a strange land, so that players would have a sense of curiosity and discovery that (in my opinion) would never happen on the Sword Coast.

Give the player a curse that 1) gave them tremendous power, and 2) made them a social pariah and could ultimately kill them (so that all players, regardless of alignment, would be motivated to resolve the central storyline).

Explore themes of dreams and hidden realities, of the world being different than it seems on the surface.

Portray an “impossible” struggle against perceived injustice, explore the roots of that struggle (which were not as idealistic as they initially seemed), and drop the player into the middle of the conflict.

Create a story where none of the (human) villains were actually evil.


I got a Hinduism vibe from the style and aesthetic of the Archons and the other creatures from Jeyne Kassynder's plan (Devas? can't remember) in DS3. What were your influences when designing the Archons and what kind of ideas were you trying to explore?


Your impression of the Archons is exactly right. I suggested an Indian vibe for them, partly because I wanted them to feel exotic in the context of Western European-inspired Ehb, and partly because I really dig Indian art and mythology. Fortunately, Justin Cherry agreed, and he drew some amazing concepts.

Both Justin and I wanted the Archons to fight with spears. Not sure why Justin liked the idea, but I was inspired by the main character in my favorite anime (Moribito: Guardian of the Spirit).

More generally, my goal for the Archons was to portray a group of angelic beings – servants of long-dead gods – who had lost their way. Back in the days when their gods were still alive, the Archons didn’t have consciousness of their own – they were living expressions of the gods’ will. But the gods died or fell to earth, and the archons were suddenly left alone, trying to figure out what had happened, what they were meant to do now, and who they ought to be. That ultimately left them vulnerable to anyone with a strong vision, even if it was misguided.

Side note: The Archons were at the root of a lot of the changes that happened in the DS3 story. We had the idea of the Archon PC from the beginning of production, and we tried a number of different ways to integrate her into the story of Ehb. In some of the earlier versions of the narrative, the other Archons didn’t appear at all, and Jeyne was a dramatically different character. Later versions incorporated the Archons and their mythology more prominently into the storyline, as you saw in DS3.


I read that you wrote the dialogue for corporal Betsy in New Vegas. Kudos for writing a rape storyline so sensitively, a lot of gamemakers would be really wary of that, were there any problems getting it in?


I wrote the dialogue for Betsy, but the rape storyline was Josh Sawyer’s idea. Since Josh was the project director, there weren’t any problems getting it into the game. Plus it was an M-rated title, so almost anything goes.


What were the overarching design goals for Treasures of the Sun (excellent DLC btw)? Was there anything in that that was cut or that you would've liked to see included when looking back on it now?

On DS3, I don’t think we got any of our regions quite right. None of our designers had ever worked on an ARPG, but we learned a lot about how to design levels, narrative, etc. for that style of game. On the DLC, our primary objective was to get it right – to use all the lessons we had learned to produce a genuinely fun and challenging area.

Additionally, we were conscious of the fact that DS3 had been very linear, and we wanted to build a region that gave the player more freedom to wander and explore... and incorporated a greater density of quests and content. We also wanted to explore a new biome that was visually distinct from what we had seen in the main game. (Desert was the overwhelming favorite on the team, so we went with that.)

Another objective was to address some of the biggest fan complaints that we had seen on forums and in reviews. For example, we knew that we had to give players the ability to respec their characters, which was an unfortunate omission in the main game. Meanwhile, our systems designer, Jesse Farrell, focused on making the boss and miniboss fights more interesting and challenging than they were in DS3... and I think he succeeded brilliantly.

On the narrative side, I was interested in further exploring the fiction of the Azunite faith and presenting another side of the Azunites, who had a uniformly negative depiction in DS3. I also wanted to include more choices in the side quests and to try presenting a choice where the player is specifically told what the consequences will be (the Eleanor choice at the end of the DLC).

Our budget was very limited, so we had to reuse a lot of assets from DS3. For example, we only got one new creature – the giant mummy. For everything else, we needed to use existing creatures (a challenge that actually led to some fun and creative ideas) or retextures of existing creatures (e.g., the jade gargoyle). We even reused some of the level geometry from DS3. You would never know it, but some of the desert areas reuse geometry from the Rukkenvahl forest. The props and decorations are completely different, but the actual layout of the levels is largely the same.

As for cut content... another close contender for the DLC was a secret Legion stronghold that existed in the Causeways – the place where the Legion gathered for conclaves and new members were inducted (and experienced a vision of the Radiant Youth, as was mentioned briefly in some of the in-game dialogue). This was an optional area that was cut from the main game. At one point, we considered using this as our DLC content, but the player had already seen the Causeways, so we opted for the desert instead. Still, we briefly thought about including *both* areas in the DLC, before we realized that our budget wouldn’t allow it. The dialogue for that area was already written and recorded, though - it answered some questions about the Radiant Youth and his history with the Legion.


The controversial Spirit Meter. Personally, I thought this was a really great way to provide some additional motivation plus to tie the narrative to the actual gameplay (something lacking in many games). Are you happy with it, would you change/remove it?


My feelings on the spirit meter have changed over time.

One of the original incentives for the spirit meter was to “fix” the rest system in NWN2, which I hated. It drove me nuts that players could rest after almost every fight in NWN2, which completely removed the need to conserve resources (spells, powers, etc.). In games where you can’t rest whenever you want, you are forced to use your spells and abilities strategically – for me, that was always a significant part of the fun. But in NWN2, you could blow your biggest spells on practically every fight. The only “dangerous” battles were the ones that could potentially wipe out your party. So we wanted to design a system that introduced a genuine cost to resting.

The other incentive was to make the player’s curse meaningful. If players were just told that they were cursed, but they didn’t experience any actual in-game consequences of their affliction, we all agreed that the whole plot would feel a little silly.

The system that Eric Fenstermaker designed was meant to mimic an addiction. The more you used your powers, the more rapidly the curse would progress, and you would have to feed more and more frequently. Plus the player’s level of corruption would continue to increase during rest, which created an incentive to rest less frequently. I loved the concept, and at the time, I felt like it addressed both of our goals.

But here’s the problem. Many – possibly most – RPG players like to take their time exploring the world, talking to NPCs, discovering secret areas, and completing side quests. The spirit meter actively discourages this style of play, encouraging the player to stick to the main quest and resolve the curse as quickly as possible. So unless players found a way to “cheat” the curse (which many did), they were discouraged from exploring our side content and enjoying the game the way they wanted to enjoy it.

Years later, I had some discussions with Josh Sawyer about this, and I now find myself on the opposite side of the debate. I think a player’s sense of being “cursed” could be reinforced in other, less heavy-handed ways – for example, NPC reactions, scripted events, visual changes, and settlements that won’t admit the player (forcing you to find a more dangerous way inside and be “on edge” at the prospect of discovery whenever you are there). I think we could also have found less fatal ways to create the sense of a curse that is “draining” the player – for example, your abilities deteriorate if you don’t feed, but you don’t actually die, making the curse impactful but not a game-stopper. Or maybe even a “hard core” mode where the curse was fatal, and a “normal” mode where it wasn’t.

Ultimately, I want players to be able to enjoy the game without having to resort to cheats or exploits, and for many players, I feel like the spirit meter became an obstacle to enjoying our content.


What's this hubbub about Obsidian employees not being allowed to post on RPGCodex?


During development of Fallout New Vegas and its expansions (appx. 2009-2011), we were told that we could not post on the Codex. I remember that someone from the Codex asked me to contribute to a developer survey around the time they announced the policy, and I unfortunately had to turn them down.

After FNV and its expansions shipped, we were never specifically told that we could post again, but I think the restriction was removed.


Was there anything dropped from Mask because it didn't fit with the 17-30 levels the campaign takes place in? I always found it amusing that Gann was an epic level full caster who used his powers to get layyed.


Not really. Most of our ideas were unusual enough to fit the epic-level range. It was actually great for our creative process.

The only frustrating thing about the level range was the “Throne of Bhaal Problem.” That is, the player needed challenging things to fight, and it didn’t make sense to have epic-level monsters lurking around every corner (plus we didn’t have the resources to make assets for a whole new set of villains). So we had to create epic-level versions of ordinary enemies like gnolls.

As for Gann… I think that’s *exactly* what a lot of people would do with epic level powers. :)


How did something so awesomely creepy as One-of-Many come to be? What was the story behind coming up with that character?


Initially, when I was coming up with concepts for the companions, I had the vague idea of an undead companion that you, as the player, could create for yourself. While the other companions had names and backgrounds, One of Many just appeared as “Undead Companion” in a lot of the early documents, and he didn’t have a backstory. If the player was going to create him, we assumed that he didn’t need one. But at that early stage, we didn’t know how or when he would come into being.

Then, when I was working on the paper design for Mulsantir, I came up with the idea of the haunted crematorium in the Death God’s Vault, and suddenly everything clicked. Bear in mind that I tend to like weird composite characters (e.g., I wrote the Silken Sisters in NWN2), so the idea of an undead monster that contained the personalities of a hundred criminals and murderers came more easily than it probably should have. But what could be a better companion/lackey/Frankenstein Monster for an evil player?

Even after I had the concept for One of Many, I still didn’t have a name. That - along with his fantastic dialogue and his four dominant personalities - came from Tony Evans, who was assigned to write him. As far as I know, Tony is solely responsible for all of that character’s dialogue in the game. He may be able to comment further on how One of Many’s voices took shape…


What's the deal with all the Sumerian names in Dungeon Siege?

According to the official Dungeon Siege lore, the historical Azunai was a member of an ancient human tribe from the pre-Imperial era. The name “Azunai” sounded like an ancient Semitic name to me, so I decided to use biblical-era names for most of the Azunite NPCs. When they consecrated themselves to the Church, the Azunites renamed themselves according to the ancient traditions of Azunai‘s tribe.

The First People had names that were specifically Sumerian, which is even less familiar to the modern ear. We wanted to create a suitably remote vibe for them, since they were descended from the original human inhabitants of Ehb. But we also wanted them to feel like they were somewhat related to the Azunite tradition, since they emerged in roughly the same time period.


Brian Fargo believes he can develop Wasteland 2 in only 18 months. From your experience as an RPG developer, do you think that is enough time to develop a full-fledged RPG from scratch on a small budget, and NOT have it turn out a buggy rushed mess?


A lot will depend upon their technology. If they have a stable toolset and engine in place (and I have no idea if they do), then I think it’s possible to deliver a solid product in 18 months. Note that Mask of the Betrayer was developed in only 8 months, with a very small team, but we already had a fully functional toolset that didn‘t require any major overhauls, and we all had experience with the technology.

If narrative is important, as I suspect it will be, they’ll need to finalize their story as early as possible (i.e., now) so that all the members of their team understand the vision for the game, and they can hit the ground running. Fleshing out the world should not be a problem, since the IP already exists. They’ll also need to watch their scope carefully, to be sure that they have time to fully test and debug everything they build. (This was traditionally a problem on most Obsidian games.)

So the short answer is yes, I think it’s possible. But they need to avoid false starts and major changes in the middle of production, or they are in trouble.


And speaking of cut content, was there any more planned for MotB that you would've liked to see back in? I seem to remember reading something about theatre plays somewhere a long time ago for example, was there anything else?


We had a lot more content planned for Mulsantir. My original design document for that module (Mulsantir and Wells of Lurue) was over a hundred pages long. (Probably overkill, but I was feeling inspired.) A lot was cut due to time constraints, and the town ended up feeling a little too empty.

Of all the cut content in Mulsantir, the quest that everyone really wanted to do was “Patron of the Arts,“ wherein you take the role of theater patron and stage a play about your adventures in the Original Campaign (and the audience complains about the ending). It included a rivalry between the actors at the Veil and the actors at the Sloop (inspired by Shakespearean London), plenty of unexpected disasters, and it culminated with a cutscene of the play, which varied based upon how you had “written” the script.

We *almost* managed to fit Patron into the schedule. Tony Evans, who is a really funny writer, was going to put in some extra hours to rescue the quest. But it came down to a choice between polishing and debugging some of the material that was already implemented vs. adding Patron of the Arts, so we made the prudent decision. I guess that quest is another item for the Director’s Cut. :)

A big cut that actually helped the game was the Astral Boneyard. Originally, Myrkul’s “resting place” was supposed to be an entire module, culminating in the encounter with the dead god. That was the first significant cut we made, early in production (before any work had been done on it). It’s a good thing, too - another full module would have ruined the pacing of the endgame.


Ammon and Safiya are my favs. I have to ask who wrote them and why Ammon did not get his own game. In which we would have a chance to see his true power as in the game intro ;) BTW Arkane is much more french(Arx Fatalis, Dark Messiah) ;)


I'm not sure who wrote Ammon Jerro in NWN2, but I'm pretty sure it was Chris Avellone. In MotB, he was written by Eric Fenstermaker.

Safiya was co-written by Matt MacLean and I, but Matt wrote more of her dialogue than I did.

At one point in MotB development, AJ actually had a larger role in the latter part of the story. (Of all the NWN2 companions, most of the MotB team liked AJ the best, so I made sure to incorporate him into the narrative.) I don't recall now whether this all came out in the dialogue, but AJ was supposed to have taught for a period of years at the Academy. Of course, he didn't particularly care about the subject matter - he just wanted to get his hands on the Silver Sword of Gith, which the Founder had recovered. Eventually, he stole the Sword and fled. The Founder and her "copies" never forgot his betrayal.

Sadly, AJ's role in the story was reduced because of time constraints, and we weren't able to VO for him (though I don't remember if it was due to budget or if we couldn't get his voice actor to return).


Was there any cut content that you would have liked back in DS 3? Or additional content? For example, I always felt it was weird that we didn't get a choice (like we did with the Foundry for example) in how to resolve the swamp or Glitterdelve mine.


You’re right. In fact, there were supposed to be choices in the swamp and Glitterdelve. Both were cut due to time and budgetary constraints.

In earlier versions of the story, the player had greater freedom in determining what kind of nation Ehb would become. The Glitterdelve storyline was originally somewhat different, and the player got to decide whether or not to support the monarchy. Things could have ended... rather differently for the royalists. If I remember correctly, the choice was removed about halfway through production as we were forced to pare down a few of our regions, but you can still see echoes of it in some of the existing dialogues.

The choice in the swamp was removed much later, when we realized that we were not going to have the resources to fully support both options and provide significant consequences later in the game.

Of all the cuts to DS3, the choices and consequences were the most painful. We did our best to inject as much reactivity into the epilogue as we could (thanks to a heroic effort by our concept artists, who had to draw all the epilogue frames in a very short time), but an epilogue can never replace cool in-game reactivity to the player‘s decisions.


You were on the writing team for Fallout: New Vegas. Can you tell us a little about what work you did for that game?

Sure. I was brought onto FNV for a few months in 2009. I’d already done some initial work on DS3 (like writing the Ehb sourcebook), but FNV was in full production mode and really needed narrative designers.

I mainly wrote dialogue for a bunch of minor characters. To be honest, I don’t remember them all anymore, but they were primarily NCR, and I do recall that most of them were at Camp McCarran. For example, I wrote the 1st Recon Team (Corporal Betsy, 10 of Spades, etc.)

At the time, John Gonzalez was writing and revising the main storyline for the game, so I also had a number of story discussions and brainstorming sessions with him. And I helped out with revisions of the dialogue tool.


Is there any particular reason why Dungeon Siege III wasn't more unusual?

Yes, definitely. First, we were bound by the Dungeon Siege license, and the DS world is a fairly standard fantasy setting, albeit with a few twists. Second, Higher Powers wanted DS3 to be more mainstream… and not a personal storyline like MotB. Third, narrative was not a top priority on DS3, so the story and setting got less attention and resources than combat and gameplay.

To be fair, I think our attempt to marry Obsidian RPG stylez to the fast action RPG genre was a pretty ambitious goal in the first place, and we spent a lot of our time just trying to figure out how that might work (which was one of the reasons we kept the story pretty simple). If it had been up to me, I probably would have tried to be truer to the original IP, implemented an even more simplistic narrative, and focused all our efforts on making an updated game that was fully in the spirit of the original. But that’s just my opinion, and I don’t think the vision we embraced was fundamentally flawed - just very, very challenging to pull off.


What did you do on the NWN2 OC/Which charachters did you write?

I was one of the designers on Act 2, along with Eric Fenstermaker and Jeff Husges. So I wrote a lot of minor characters (e.g., all the ghosts in the ruined Illefarn city who told the story of the King of Shadows) and designed a bunch of quests and levels - especially the content in Blacklake (e.g., the Bryce Crypt quest, the imps, the Aldanon's Manse sequence, etc.) Blacklake was actually a complete redesign from an earlier, much rougher version.

Also did most of the design work on the tutorial.

Being on the Act 2 team actually turned out very well because all of us were moved over to Mask of the Betrayer. Since we had already worked together (and got along well), Mask went that much more smoothly - no learning curve as we got to know one another's work.
 
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Nano

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Grab the Codex by the pussy Strap Yourselves In
Lo and behold the wonders of this amazing invention called "the internet", an astonishing contraption that never forgets! George's entire Formspring as of the 25th of March, 2013 (shortly before Formspring shut down) had been archived by the WayBackMachine, in case anyone is interested.

https://web.archive.org/web/20130325165043/http://www.formspring.me/GZiets
This is far from a complete archive, it's only a few of his most recent answers before Formspring shut down. None of the answers Roguey quoted in this thread are archived there, for instance.
 

Roguey

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This is lovely, but sources are important. It would be good if you saved archived links or screencaps during future stalking sessions.
That is far too much effort for what I would see as no gain.
 
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My early drafts of the story were truer to my usual narrative tendencies. They were more personal - focused on the player – and they depicted a “grayer” version of the Legion. One of the storylines – possibly the one you remember – also included a lot more supernatural elements.However, it was decided (above my pay grade) that we should keep the story focused on a threat that affected the nation or the world. Also, there was a desire to ensure that the Legion was clearly Good. I think the underlying impulse was to avoid a lot of narrative complexity, which makes sense in a franchise like Dungeon Siege. [...] First, we were bound by the Dungeon Siege license, and the DS world is a fairly standard fantasy setting, albeit with a few twists. Second, Higher Powers wanted DS3 to be more mainstream… and not a personal storyline like MotB.

thanks random executive, very cool
 

Quillon

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To our credit, I think we found the right balance when we made the expansion, Treasures of the Sun. Also, the narrative in TotS was more open-ended and exploratory, which I think worked a lot better for that style of game.

Damn, DS3 had an expansion!? :D

/Where is Tony Evans now?
 
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Quillon

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It's just that Sawyer has max persuade skill IRL.

If he had time & opportunity to sit down with every codex member, codex would be Sawyerist(again?) :P
 

Prime Junta

Guest
I look at Ziets and see Sawyer 2.0.

Sawyer: dry as asbestos germanophile history and language geek, likes to build systems, likes low-fantasy, realistic, historically based settings and classless systems

Ziets: hey boys, wouldn't it be cool if you could have a conversation with a dead god of death on the astral plane, while sitting on his vertebra?

yup yup
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
luj seems to have developed a grudge against Ziets. Perhaps he's one of those who never got the appeal of Mask of the Betrayer, so all he's seeing is an ex-Obsidian/inXile hack with weird hair who is inexplicably popular with all you Codex SHILLS.
 

Prime Junta

Guest
luj seems to have developed a grudge against Ziets. Perhaps he's one of those who never got the appeal of Mask of the Betrayer, so all he's seeing is an ex-Obsidian/inXile hack with weird hair who is inexplicably popular with all you Codex SHILLS.

The ways of the luj1 are mysterious. He knoweth what he liketh, and consigneth all else to the fireth of damnathion.
 

luj1

You're all shills
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Why would I hold a grudge against Ziets you fuck, he never disappointed me. I'm just not seeing the hype.
 

Nano

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Grab the Codex by the pussy Strap Yourselves In
/Where is Tony Evans now?
He left Obsidian for BioWare in 2010, basically ditching his job as Dungeon Siege 3's lead designer, and he was subsequently fired from BioWare just a year later. He's the design director now for the company that develops the Saints Row games.

I guess you can't blame him for the DS3 thing.
 

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