How's Planescape: Torment?

[TheGlow]

I came to this site because I heard that it was full of jackasses with stupid ideas. After reading a bit I realized I was half right. :D This place is full of jackasses with teh ritte ideas because they are generally the same as mine.

You dislike Morrowind in general. I thought I was the only one that didn't llike this steaming pile. I fucking hate this game.

You like spiderweb software products. I thought I was the only one. Exile series has a kick ass story. Geneforge is good too.

Fallout is good. And the first time I played it on a mac too, which is saying something for the game itself.

I respect your opinions. Is Planescape worth my trouble?

 

[corvax]

hey hey hey i like morrowind :!:
never played spiderweb-guess i'm not hardcore enough...

as far as planescape goes...well...it's easily the best of the best of recent rpg's...you wanna a kick ass story?...nothing comes even close...brilliant writing & quests...the best and most involving npc's ever...perfect setting...not so good combat (sort of like bg but a little easier)...regardless you will immidiately forget about the flaws once you start playing...just get the damn thing

btw...i wouldn't reccomend this game for someone who does not like reading, philosophical/ethical issues, has short attention span or add, or thought that diablo was the best rpg ever

 

[roguefrog]

Best game ever

 

[Darkwaters]

Torment is amazing. Don't let anyone talk you out of playing it b/c they have obviously not ever played it! Best RPG ever.

 

[plin]

An over-rated ADVENTURE game. Not much of a CRPG in the least. I thought it was shitty compared to the flattering masterbation most people give it. It does have a good story though. Nothing incredible or mind-blowing.

edit: But I'd say go ahead and try it, it seems I'm in the minority of thinking it's not that great.

 

[Seven]

An over-rated ADVENTURE game. Not much of a CRPG in the least. I thought it was shitty compared to the flattering masterbation most people give it. It does have a good story though. Nothing incredible or mind-blowing.

edit: But I'd say go ahead and try it, it seems I'm in the minority of thinking it's not that great.

It's a good thing that no one values your opinion.

 

[Walks with the Snails]

It was pretty much the high-water mark for BIS. After that was just the Icewind Dales and three canceled projects. Go pick it up if you get a chance, it's still one of the best RPG's out there.

 

[plin]

An over-rated ADVENTURE game. Not much of a CRPG in the least. I thought it was shitty compared to the flattering masterbation most people give it. It does have a good story though. Nothing incredible or mind-blowing.

edit: But I'd say go ahead and try it, it seems I'm in the minority of thinking it's not that great.

It's a good thing that no one values your opinion.

oh no!

I still fail to see how it is a good RPG. There's no character creation. The combat was real-time and was almost diablo-ish (not to mention horrible). It has a dialogue tree, but when do the choices ever affect the game world in a major way when it's so damn linear (besides the very last part of the game, when you had a handful of choices in the outcome.) There might be some multiple ways to solve a quest (which were usually crappy fed-ex quests), but it wasn't well done (oh, you can dress up in the morg person's clothes to get passed him to get out of the morg. OOOOHHH)

I mean, how is this game NOT an adventure game with a dialogue tree when you people are so anal about other so called RPGs?

I'm not trying to be an asshole, I'm just curious. It's always baffeled me.

 

[HanoverF]

It is good, and worth playing, but best ever?

The combat sucked more ass than Volorn at a Bioware slumber party, so that automatically disqualifies it. The further you get the more combat there is, so its like punishement for progressing

It is extremly linear, and is more akin to Adventure Game then RPG, but the story and side-quests are fairly good, tho rife with cliches.

 

[Amerestatistic]

I agree with the Volourn sucking ass thing with the combat.

And the linearity.

And it has an adventure game feel that will bother you if you were hoping for a Fallout-style RPG.

I wouldn't quite call it overrated, but I'd disagree with all of the "best RPG ever" type stuff that you sometimes hear about it. Definitely worth playing, however. The setting is good fun, and you'll get to read quite a bit about it before you're done.

 

[Seven]

Well lets see now; it did have relatively deep NPC development, a well written storyline, and if it played like a book who cares? I don't recall anyone with a half a brain saying that it was nonlinear, right? Not only that the focus and emphasis on the player never shifted; it was actually a compelling game that made you want to discover who the Nameless One was. Saying that it's

Not much of a CRPG in the least.

is nonsensical. BTW, what would you consider a CRPG in the least, Morrowind?

 

[plin]

Well lets see now; it did have relatively deep NPC development, a well written storyline, and if it played like a book who cares? I don't recall anyone with a half a brain saying that it was nonlinear, right? Not only that the focus and emphasis on the player never shifted; it was actually a compelling game that made you want to discover who the Nameless One was. Saying that it's

Not much of a CRPG in the least.

is nonsensical. BTW, what would you consider a CRPG in the least, Morrowind?

Hah, you're describing an adventure game, or even a console jap RPG. It does matter when people call it a great, or the even the best CRPG, when it's a great point and click adventure game.

Fallout is really the only CRPG that I've played and immensly enjoyed, so everything in that game is what a CRPG is to me. Freedom of choice, making an impact on the world, dialogue actually mattering, freedom, great quests, be different kinds of characters (not just a thief, mage, and fighter), OMG creating your character OMG.

But tell me, how is this an RPG when people don't consider console RPGs real RPGs? Is it because it has a useless dialogue tree? Three classes to choose from? Solving a handful of quests in a handful of different ways? Maybe my comment on "it's not a CRPG in the least" isn't the best way to say it, but it certainly isn't a great CRPG. It just seems like the popular view to think of it as the best CRPG EVAAA, when it's not much more of a RPG than jap console RPGs.

edit: And I'm done. It's just apples and oranges. If it's a good CRPG or whatever, it doesn't matter.

 

[corvax]

rpg with adventure elements, adventure with rpg elements, whatever...it's still a great great game...not the best ever (no game is but that depends on what are you looking for in a crpg) but it's up there, very high up there...

 

[POOPERSCOOPER]

I remeber the picture of TNO on the box cover looked like the Lephricaun with dreds.

 

[roguefrog]

So when does a game stop being an RPG and starts becomming an Adventure game? PST had role-playing, great characters, dialogue, and story. I don't think it can be called a full fledged adventure game just yet. It is a bit closer to jap RPGs than Fallout, in the sense of being more linear, having a generated PC, and weak character building. (Although Jap RPGs have NONE) However it still remains closer to that of a cRPG in more ways.

Anyway, not the best cRPG ever. The best game ever. :D

 

[Seven]

I think your (plin) definition of a CRPG is a little rigid. If FO is the only thing that you can use to make your point then I don't think that you yourself are sure/you know what a CRPG is given that you described PST as:

Not much of a CRPG in the least.

and yet FO by your own words is something that you :

immensly enjoyed, so everything in that game is what a CRPG is to me.

This tells me that you know what you really like, but when it comes to good or average CRPGs you lack that proper basis to express a valid opinion, in which case it comes as no surprise that your comments about PST don't make sense. BTW, part of RPG is ROLE; this is something you (the player) creates for his/herself, or its something that's implemented via design. Also if you hadn't noticed PST is stat based (dialogues, actions, experience and to a lesser extent so is combat), so a different experience awaits different play styles.

 

[Dan]

The quickest reaction I can summon about PS:T is: Fair play.

It doesn't have charecter generation or actuall charecter development, the gameplay is quite linear, and the combat is IE.

What it does have, though, is a pretty good story. Good writing and dialouge. A more interesting setting then the usual high fantasy game, and it's fun to play.

So, all in all, it's worth a go. There were times the infinity engine almost drove me to the brinks of insanity, but I guess it's better then regular real time.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Hah, you're describing an adventure game, or even a console jap RPG. It does matter when people call it a great, or the even the best CRPG, when it's a great point and click adventure game.

Adventure games don't typically have more than one method of handling situations nor do they have morality tracking. While Torment is linear and story heavy, there is still a fair amount of role playing allowed in the game that sets it far apart from Japanese console RPGs and adventure games.

I came to this site because I heard that it was full of jackasses with stupid ideas.

That's why you should never listen to Visceris/Hades_One/Chaos_One.

 

[plin]

I think your (plin) definition of a CRPG is a little rigid. If FO is the only thing that you can use to make your point then I don't think that you yourself are sure/you know what a CRPG is given that you described PST as:

Not much of a CRPG in the least.

and yet FO by your own words is something that you :

immensly enjoyed, so everything in that game is what a CRPG is to me.

This tells me that you know what you really like, but when it comes to good or average CRPGs you lack that proper basis to express a valid opinion, in which case it comes as no surprise that your comments about PST don't make sense. BTW, part of RPG is ROLE; this is something you (the player) creates for his/herself, or its something that's implemented via design. Also if you hadn't noticed PST is stat based (dialogues, actions, experience and to a lesser extent so is combat), so a different experience awaits different play styles.

oh welsy, then I'll just say I didn't like it.

 

[Jora]

There's no character creation.

Yes there is. And even if there wasn't, it would still be a CRPG because you're allowed to develope your character during the game. Gothics have no character creation but they could still be excellent CRPGs if they had more solutions to some quests and stats had more effect on the dialogue.

You don't get to choose your skills or class in Torment's character creation but you can do that later in Sigil and it doesn't affect the role-playing options in any way.

The combat was real-time and was almost diablo-ish (not to mention horrible).

It wasn't great but Torment isn't an adventure game because of it.

It has a dialogue tree, but when do the choices ever affect the game world in a major way when it's so damn linear (besides the very last part of the game, when you had a handful of choices in the outcome.)

Unlike in Arcanum, Fallout, KotOR or BG series, in Torment you are not supposed to save or conquer the world. The story is about you, your identity and your companions, so the role-playing options don't need to affect the world in a major way. You're not trying to save the people of Sigil from an attack of the Siege Tower or Ravel, nor are you trying to kill the Lady of Pain and rule Sigil with your spells of necromantic destruction. In those instances it would only make sense to be able to make big decisions about the fate of the factions and get different ending slides ("after your death Many-As-One attacked the the Hive with his cranium rat army..."). But Torment is a personal journey and nobody in Sigil cares who you are or what happens to you. In Fallouts and Arcanum you have the fate of the world in your hands, whereas Torment is about entirely different things.

The choices are there mainly to define your character in great detail but you can make some choices that do have a great impact on the lives of the Sigilians. You can help the Dead Nations by keeping their secrets or you can reveal their weaknesses to Many-As-One.

how is this game NOT an adventure game with a dialogue tree when you people are so anal about other so called RPGs?

It's not an adventure game with a dialogue tree because your choices have an effect on the story and the character you play.

There are a lot of role-playing options in Torment. Your stats have much greater effect on the dialogue than in Fallout even if there is no speech skill. It's linear but I don't think non-linearity is one the definitions of CRPGs. Of course it would be fun to decide the order in which you visit the areas and meet the major NPCs, but I'm willing to sacrifice it if the story and the quality of the writing is as brilliant as in Torment.

 

[Ausir]

Not to mention Torment features the best JNPC interaction I've ever seen in a cRPG.

 

[Amerestatistic]

I might forget of Torment's subtleties at times...I think it's time to start playing it again.

 

[Elwro]

I like games with lots of text. And I think that the part of the game in which I can 'play' my 'role' is not the combat or walking, but dialogues, so PS:T was very good for me.
I also like when you get more XPs for non-combat deeds. And it's the only IE game in which you can play as a mage and you aren't screwed.

 

[rob]

it's a good example of using the same ruleset and engine to give a completely different experience (more developer should try to experiment). It's kind of" intellectual" but involving.I was sucked in straight away. Great atmosphere, one of the few game were I was caring for the issue presented by people you meet. If you liked the part of arcanum were you solve the ethic problems ofthe dwarf (was the part about betraying the shape or the stone, if I recall it correctly) you'll love it. all in all worth of shot simply because it is weird.

 

[Spazmo]

Torment is an astounding game and a resouding success for BIS. It's not that good at RP, but if more games had that kind of story, writing, graphical design (engine was a bit chunky but the things it was rendering were purdy) and setting, I'd be one happy camper.