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Avernum 3: Ruined World

jungl

Augur
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
1,427
the cat and lizard races not that bad. You dont need all the traits like parry when its easier to cap resistances at 90. I had my lizard hitting 250+ felt like he was 5 levels higher then everyone toward end game. Didn't bother getting the artifact polearm either as he was obliterating everything with the drake vest. Reminds me of trails cold steel laura. Once you stack damage modifiers enough eventually it comes to a point where it breaks through the ceiling and rapes everything.
 

flushfire

Augur
Joined
Jun 10, 2006
Messages
772
Remake upon remake and I still cannot for the life of me understand why Spiderweb still hasn't changed the money cap at 30k (with no warnings even), with the only reason being that it is stored as a two byte integer. Seriously?

There's also still that stupid constraint of being able to increase skills just once per level, meaning at high levels where leveling is slower, if you want to focus on just 1, low-tier skill, you're shit out of luck. If you didn't plan ahead you'll end up having to level some other skill you didn't want. Which is pretty stupid since, and I'm assuming the reason for this is to prevent maxing skills too early, a better solution is to just add level requirements to skills. It's not like maxed skills early would be OP anyway, they're all just +2 to +3% increases.

Also Idk if it's because I already know the plot or if the writing declined or maybe because of the graphics but the environments didn't feel as devastated and the monster plagues didn't feel as threatening as they did in Exile 3. I was excited to see what the six-legged giant pitbulls of pure muscle alien beast from Exile 3 would look like in modern graphics and was truly disappointed to see Geneforge's Kyshakks. They didn't look threatening in that game either.
 

Alec20

Novice
Joined
Sep 28, 2015
Messages
6
I heard Jeff nerfed melee combat after the first Avernum remake. Before you could have up to 95% hit chance, and dual wield decent weapons. Now it's 90% and the offhand weapons are mostly shitty. It's too bad, because Archery was already shit from the start, so now there's no point to anything but mages.
 

Butter

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
7,686
Spiderweb noob here looking for some clarification. This game is on sale right now and with all the remakes, I'm not sure what Spiderweb games I should be picking up. Is Avernum 3: Ruined World the same as Avernum 3 the same as Exile 3?
 

V_K

Arcane
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
7,714
Location
at a Nowhere near you
Spiderweb noob here looking for some clarification. This game is on sale right now and with all the remakes, I'm not sure what Spiderweb games I should be picking up. Is Avernum 3: Ruined World the same as Avernum 3 the same as Exile 3?
Vogel remakes are basically a history of RPGs in a nutshell: graphics get better, everything else gets worse.
 

Mustawd

Guest
The newest remakes are good. Just very different in many ways from the original Exile games. Pick up Avernum 1 remake and if you like it pick up the 2-3 remakes.

Just not on iOs cuz Vogel can’t code in closing doors on iOs for some dumb reason :roll:
 
Joined
Apr 10, 2018
Messages
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Location
Mouse Utopia
Insert Title Here Strap Yourselves In
I played A;EftP first, then Avernum 1, and I preferred the latter, it is more immersive due to the little things it still has that AEFTP removes, I even preferred the aesthetics. Should I play the original exile?
 

Agesilaus

Antiquity Studio
Patron
Developer
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
4,460
Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
The newest remakes are good. Just very different in many ways from the original Exile games. Pick up Avernum 1 remake and if you like it pick up the 2-3 remakes.

Just not on iOs cuz Vogel can’t code in closing doors on iOs for some dumb reason :roll:

I liked the Avernum 1 remake, A2 was dogshit and A3 was... it kept me entertained for a period of time. Avernum/Exile was never my thing, though, because I want different factions and C&C.
 

Kalarion

Serial Ratist
Patron
Joined
Jan 30, 2015
Messages
1,008
Location
San Antonio, TX
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong BattleTech Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
Exile 3 is by far his best non-geneforge game. I highly recommend that you start your Spiderweb experience with all three Exiles. If you just can't be bothered, start with Exile 3. The Avernum re-remakes are serviceable, and can be enjoyed just fine. BUT PLAY THE EXILES. FFS PLAY THE EXILES! If you don't, you're missing out on Vogel as his craft improves (which imo culminated in his best work with the middle Geneforges), rather than the slow devolution that started after his disappointment with Nethergate and the later Geneforges.
 

Cael

Arcane
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
20,570
I prefer Exile to Avernum.

6 character party vs 4.
Freedom to build any character you want instead of being forced into skill trees.
Meaningful itemisation vs magical sword of +1% damage everywhere.
Superb consistent worldbuilding vs I will insert my LARPING friend here for no reason.

Amongst many other things.
 

Skdursh

Savant
Joined
Nov 27, 2018
Messages
734
Location
Slavlandia
Spiderweb noob here looking for some clarification. This game is on sale right now and with all the remakes, I'm not sure what Spiderweb games I should be picking up. Is Avernum 3: Ruined World the same as Avernum 3 the same as Exile 3?
Pirate them and then if you like them purchase them. I played the Exile games when I was a teenager after burning them to a CD from a friend who owned them. Loved them and eventually bought the entire Spiderweb Software collection of games. All of them have been solid, even great at times; some will say "well, what about Queen's Wish?", but I find that Queen's Wish has some redeemable qualities in the story and world despite being the worst of the bunch. To explain the difference between Exile 3, Avernum 3 and Avernum 3: Ruined World is that essentially they are all the same game, but with updated graphics with each iteration and some changes with interaction in the environment and combat. Exile 3 came first, Avernum 3 was an isometric "remake" and Avernum 3: Ruined World is a remake of the remake. I personally find that Avernum 3 (the "middle" one) is the best version to my tastes. The best series of Spiderweb Software games overall though remains the Geneforge series, which I cannot recommend highly enough.
 
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I got bored of Geneforge 1 towards the end, mostly because of gameplay feeling very clunky, should I soldier on or just play Geneforge 2?
 

Agesilaus

Antiquity Studio
Patron
Developer
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
4,460
Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I got bored of Geneforge 1 towards the end, mostly because of gameplay feeling very clunky, should I soldier on or just play Geneforge 2?

Yeah, no point in forcing yourself to play g1 if you've already reached the late game. Maybe just bee line for the boat or something; it has been a long time since I last finished G1, but I recall being able to leave the island without completing all the quests. You don't need to actually finish G1 to understand the rest of the series, it is only referenced when characters name drop the island and say that the troubles started there.

G2 is one of the best geneforges, if not the best. It's a little clunkier than the later episodes, but the world retains a degree of G1 mystery and there are many factions. G3 lacks the variety and mystery and introduces an annoying travel mechanic, but I guess it's nice in the sense that you get a party member. G3 introduces several notable characters, but it is the weakest and most linear in the series.

I'm replaying G4 right now, it is the best if you like the idea of being a double agent. Otherwise I would say G5 is better, but honestly they're both really good.

Also, don't forget Nethergate. In the grand scheme of things, obviously the geneforge series is the best thing vogel has produced. Nethergate is up there, though; very unique theme and a lot of interesting exploration. Plus it's worth playing twice just see the story play out from both perspectives.
 

Correct_Carlo

Arcane
Joined
Jul 19, 2012
Messages
8,471
Location
Pronouns: He/Him/His
Finally got around to playing this and having fun. I have mixed feelings about the time limit. It definitely adds urgency, which I like, but it's also triggering my autism hard. I like to completely mop up areas before moving on, but now I feel rushed to get to towns before they start degrading. Although, I like it over all as it forces me out of my comfort zone a bit.

Anyone know if you can actually miss out on anything if you wait too long? Or is it all cosmetic? I can't really find a straight answer on what changes, even on the SW forums.
 

Kalarion

Serial Ratist
Patron
Joined
Jan 30, 2015
Messages
1,008
Location
San Antonio, TX
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong BattleTech Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
The timer mostly affects story-driven in game events (day 30, day 60 etc). I think if you wait more than 120 days certain towns in the far north (Golem/Alien Beast areas) will be reduced to rubble. If you fail to destroy the Alien Beasts and figure out who the mastermind(s) is/are, plagues that you already destroyed will slowly respawn in their respective areas. I believe this occurs something like 60 days after you performed the action that killed that plague (so killing the Alien Slime, setting Quickfire in the Giant Cockroach Lair, etc).

On day 180 a very special event occurs.

Honestly Jeff's design was very lenient. You have plenty of time to explore as much as you want, and most of the negative consequences of taking too long don't have game breaking effects. Lawn mow away. It'll be inconvenient for you at times if you take TOO long, but for the most part you can just treat the effects as interesting challenges.

Or you could just play Exile 3 :D
 

Correct_Carlo

Arcane
Joined
Jul 19, 2012
Messages
8,471
Location
Pronouns: He/Him/His
I'm near the end of my torment playthrough (97 hours in and I only have the last main questline to complete). This is probably the best Avernum, in terms of over all design and exploration, I've ever played. If it has a flaw, I think it's that it's also probably the easiest Spiderweb Avernum to play on torment, outside of Avernum 4 (which is notoriously easy). There really haven't been any note worthy boss fights either, which is disappointing, and the combat/battle design, as a whole, really doesn't reach the heights of Avernum 6 (which has the most interesting combat of all the Avernums). The Roach Plague's final mission, which has you outrunning a wall of fire while fighting off hordes of roaches at a point when you are still very under leveled, was probably the hardest, most fun, and most memorable sequence in the entire game. The Golem factory sequences were also memorable, but for all the wrong reasons. They involved tons of incredibly tedious pushing of mirrors across massive maps using the game's completely rudimentary and frequently nonsensical control scheme. You had to use them to reflect deadly laser light to accomplish various things, which sounds cool in theory and I could see how this would have worked great in Exile III's top down engine, but it was a nightmare in the re-remakes' super tiny resolution isometric perspective. The graphics of the mirrors are so badly done that it's complete guesswork which way a mirror will point the laser.

I ended up playing a party of 1 archer, 1 priest, and 2 mages, which might be why it's too easy. I think it would have been much harder had I gone with on two magic casters and a melee character, especially since there is friendly fire on torment.

I also probably built my party too efficiently. I gave all of my magic casters enough melee points to get both 10 points in "hardiness" and adrenaline rush, which means every single one of my characters can start a battle by spamming 3 moves in a row, each, before the enemies even get a turn. Of course, it took a really long time to get to that point, so the first 1/3 of the game was incredibly hard, as I build all my characters as glass cannons with maxed offensive stats, only using traits and skills to build defenses slowly. However, the satisfaction of face-stomping everything the game throws at me in the last 1/3 is worth it.

And holy shit does this game trigger my autism. It probably has more fiddly ways to min-max than any Spiderweb game I've ever played. Not only are there high level skills limited to 10 points that can only be raised after you raise lower level skills, but you can also exceed the 10 point caps by buying trainer levels, using skill-crystals, and via quest rewards. However, you can only do this if you first max out your skills via leveling up before you buy trainers, complete quests with skill rewards, or use crystals. On top of this, there are 50 spells, each with 2 levels that can be bought and a 3rd that has to be found in a spellbook throughout the world---but you can only read the books if you have enough lore points (of which there are 3 varieties, with different books requiring differing amounts of each). Then there are a bunch of set-piece missions to find high-level gear, random crafting of weapons and armor, as well as "blessing stations" that can increase the power of your gear, but only once.....so before you use them you have to be sure that you really want to use the gear long-term.

Of course, if you want to truly min-max, it's very easy to fuck this all up. I actually restarted the game 15 hours in because I realized I fucked up my skill points, and then I fought hard against reverting to a save 10 hours previous when I realized, about 30 hours in, that I fucked up my hardiness skill leveling and screwed all of my characters out of 2 levels (I ended up not doing it and those missing points eat me alive everytime I open my characters' stat screens).

Also, I ended up liking the timer. There is more than enough time to complete everything, but it also kept me on track and kept me from spending hours mopping up quests and overleveling before I went on to the next area. Some of the main quests were way harder than they otherwise would have been because of it.

If this sounds insane it's because it probably is, but this is what really good Spiderweb games do to me. The Avadons didn't do this to me, nor did Queen's Wish or Geneforge 3 or Avernum 5 or even Avernum 4. However, Avernum 3 completely triggered every autistic neuron in my brain, which is the highest praise that I can give an RPG.

Anyhow, I probably won't finish it until this weekend, but wanted to post.
 
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Saduj

Arcane
Joined
Aug 26, 2012
Messages
2,552
:necro:

Been playing the remake trilogy for the last few weeks. From the first game up until now, I've really been enjoying it. On day 80-something in this one and the Golem Factory has me stuck. Before going in, I took down three of the spires. Can't get to the fourth but I see there is a tunnel entrance next to it. Can't find the other end of that tunnel so I assumed it is in the factory itself and headed there. I hate dungeons that are designed around a damaging environment so was already pissed off to see all the blue lasers. Explored the first level taking constant blue lasers to the face, went to the basement and cleared most of it but there was one area I couldn't reach behind four red lasers. I got the key that will let me reach the stairs from ground level to second level so it seemed reasonable to head that way. Second level is almost entirely covered in red lasers, a few of which briefly switch off regularly. My guys can tank blue lasers pretty well. The red lasers on this floor kill my casters very quickly. I've explored as much of this level as seems possible, going into combat mode to carefully move my party down corridors when lasers are turned off. That doesn't seem to get me very far as progress is always blocked by a laser or four lasers that never seem to cycle off. Trying to smash crystals doesn't work. Pulling the levers I can reach doesn't seem to do anything. This is where I am stuck.

What I'd like to know is if I should have spent more time looking for a way to reach the fourth spire before I entered the factory. Would that do anything to help with the lasers or make new parts of the factory accessible? If not, and I'm supposed to be in the factory now, what am I missing? Is there a way to reach something important on the 2nd level and I'm just missing it? Should I have gotten past those four lasers in the basement first?

I really don't care about spoilers specific to this dungeon as it is a perfect example of what I hate. What makes it suck worse is that I think the new golems as enemies are far better than anything in the game so far. I was really looking forward to some tough fights that would force me to use up treasured consumables. Instead, I get this shit..

Edit: OK, I was able to find an answer online and can now confirm that my problem was that I thought I had to be missing something big when really this is just stupid level design. There is nothing intuitive about the solution and it is the kind of thing that would require some very annoying trial and error that I'm glad I didn't do. Even knowing where I had to go, it was annoying. Not going to waste time on the details now. But if, at some point, someone else gets stuck and wants some info, tag me in this thread.
 
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