WRPG & JRPG Hybrid

[Pots Talos]

Are there any games out there that try to combine JRPG and WRPG elements?

I’m in the process of developing a game that does this but I’d like to look at any other games that have attempted it, to see what did and didn’t work.

 

[Deflowerer]

Isn't that modern Bioware?

 

[HoboForEternity]

planescape torment

 

[Theldaran]

I find it pretty difficult.

Western focuses on choices and mechanics, the stories tend to be lite. Japanese focuses on tailormade story and characters you can't customise a lot. I think both of them are pretty stale by now, but just as fantasy and sci-fi are pretty stale too. Decline, you know?

 

[LeStryfe79]

Wizardry: Tales of the Forsaken Land

 

[Jenkem]

Are there any games out there that try to combine JRPG and WRPG elements?

I’m in the process of developing a game that does this but I’d like to look at any other games that have attempted it, to see what did and didn’t work.

what exactly constitutes JRPG vs WRPG elements in your mind? The granddaddy of JRPGs was inspired by western games like Ultima and Wizardry...

otherwise there are certainly Japanese titles that have more of a "wrpg feeling" such as Dark Souls, Xenoblade Chronicles X and Dragon's Dogma

 

[Expon]

-The original romancing saGa and the ps2 remake as well as romancing saGa 2 and scarlet grace

-The original metal max was more of a wrpg, but with each game they could be considered a hybrid. (excluding xeno which went full jrpg with bounty hunting tacked on)

Oriental Blue for the gameboy advanced is structured more like an wrpg as it's very opened ended in what you can do and how you do them.

Zill O'll Infinte for the psx ps2 and psp is like Oriental blue only with much more quest and endings (the psp version has extra content and is receiving a fan patch)

 

[Hobo Elf]

Shin Megami Tensei and Etrian Odyssey. Both are crawlers but have wacky, deep and complex Japanese game mechanics.

 

[Pots Talos]

Are there any games out there that try to combine JRPG and WRPG elements?

I’m in the process of developing a game that does this but I’d like to look at any other games that have attempted it, to see what did and didn’t work.

what exactly constitutes JRPG vs WRPG elements in your mind? The granddaddy of JRPGs was inspired by western games like Ultima and Wizardry...

otherwise there are certainly Japanese titles that have more of a "wrpg feeling" such as Dark Souls, Xenoblade Chronicles X and Dragon's Dogma

I look at them similarly to how Theldaran put it. JRPG tends to have a tighter narrative focus with little creative control for the player and WRPG gives more freedom to the player (C&C, character creation, open world, ect).

How I’m handling this in my new game is with a focus on player freedom; character customization, choices & consequences, and a semi-open world. To try and keep a tighter narrative focus, I’ve created an intro that takes the player to a different location based on their choices. Each location will have its own story that the player follows. The systems too, I’ve tried to combine aspects of both JRPG and WRPG, with D&D character building and FFT job class systems.

There is a ton more but I don’t want to drone on about what I’m creating and would like to get other people’s input into what games try to pull off this kind of combination.

-The original romancing saGa and the ps2 remake as well as romancing saGa 2 and scarlet grace

-The original metal max was more of a wrpg, but with each game they could be considered a hybrid. (excluding xeno which went full jrpg with bounty hunting tacked on)

Oriental Blue for the gameboy advanced is structured more like an wrpg as it's very opened ended in what you can do and how you do them.

Zill O'll Infinte for the psx ps2 and psp is like Oriental blue only with much more quest and endings (the psp version has extra content and is receiving a fan patch)

I haven't played any of these, so I'll be sure to check them out.
Thanks!

 

[DraQ]

stale

That's what you get when you don't innovate.

 

[Theldaran]

stale

That's what you get when you don't innovate.

Well, what do you expect. Bioware made BG and KOTOR and their later series, Dragon Age and Mass Effect, were their own take on settings like Forgotten Realms and Star Wars. Zero innovation.

Like all the clones of Fallout. And now clones of BG too.

Companies making RPGs now always look to 20 years ago instead of doing their own thing, and understanding what was it that made those games good. Instead, we get imitations of the old games. Not fresh things. This can't go on forever, someday people will say "enough" and those clones won't sell shit.

 

[Machocruz]

The way I see it, you either try to emulate more of pen and paper (some WRPGs) or less (most JRPGs). If you just look at other video games, you're only going to do what other video games have done, which is not much of what PnP does. Sure video games have to operate within their own framework too, but that's not the problem this genre is facing. We're very good at putting video game shit into video games, only so so at putting RPG shit into video games.

Imo there aren't many games that are an adequate model what you are attempting, so try be the first. Test, test, test. Discard what doesnt work. Do you know how far you want to take the feature-set? Complexity? But it makes sense to me to start with the simpler base of JRPG and try to add to it.

 

[V_K]

Betrayal at Krondor and its sequels are the most obvious case: you get pre-made protagonists and a very linear and cutscene-heavy plot, but at the same time relatively free-form character development and relatively open world.

 

[Bigg Boss]

Nobody mentioned Anachronox.

 

[Nutmeg]

A more useful perspective might be to compare WRPGs and JRPGs to adventure games, and TBS games (both J and W).

Take all the elements a WRPG has with adventure games, remove them, and see what's left.

Now do the same with JRPGs.

Now do it with W and J RPGs and TBS games.

When doing this exercise, think carefully about player goals and their moment to moment actions in the most basic terms (e.g. pressing A to advance dialogue, or planning a battle action).

Hope you find this illuminating.

 

[Ysaye]

Why don't you go the Japanese Visual Novel route but add D&D character creation with stats, skill checks and lots more outrageous choices (Ala Western roleplayers in PnP)*? Lot of people (not just codexers) seem to like VNs. But just remember, these kinds of codex players like REALLY outrageous choices (ie. not lots of philosophical, practical choices, lots of violent and / or sexual options).

* note I haven't played Disco Furies thingo..might find that that is exactly that except in isometric.....

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

The major difference between WRPG and JRPG for me it's the art style.

As for OP's question:

Any souls like game
Dragons Dogma
FF 12
Vagrant Story
Monster hunter
Anachronox
Lost Odyssey

 

[Reinhardt]

JRPGs have better looking women.

 

[Pots Talos]

The way I see it, you either try to emulate more of pen and paper (some WRPGs) or less (most JRPGs). If you just look at other video games, you're only going to do what other video games have done, which is not much of what PnP does. Sure video games have to operate within their own framework too, but that's not the problem this genre is facing. We're very good at putting video game shit into video games, only so so at putting RPG shit into video games.

Imo there aren't many games that are an adequate model what you are attempting, so try be the first. Test, test, test. Discard what doesnt work. Do you know how far you want to take the feature-set? Complexity? But it makes sense to me to start with the simpler base of JRPG and try to add to it.

This is the way I’ve been trying to look at it.
The thing is, everything I’ve created and added into my game has been done already, but I do want to make something unique. My first game (linked in signature) was my tribute to JRPGs I grew playing and doesn’t deviate from that formula too much.

I’ve also played a lot of WRPGs and knew going forward I wanted to put more of that into my games. Day/Night cycle with NPC schedules, D&D inspired character creation, Arcanum style player backgrounds, and C&C are just some of things already implemented. We also recently created the cohort system which allows charisma checks to recruit almost any NPC in the entire game into your party. I think that is something different and not done in other games but I’m not sure, we just thought it was cool.

I’m tempted just to list a bunch of other features we’ve already implemented here and ask what everyone thinks should be added to make it more unique.

 

[Damned Registrations]

You might want to look at Star Ocean series as well. Well, I only played the second one that was on PSX. It does a lot of interesting things, making the map, if not the story, a lot less linear, tons of optional side skits in towns to flesh out characters, characters pretty much all being optional and some mutually exclusive, and a ton of non combat skills and mechanics, most of which were done pretty well imo.

 

[Machocruz]

and a ton of non combat skills and mechanics, most of which were done pretty well imo.

JRPGs can def. use more of this. Less separation between combat and the rest of the game world in general.

 

[Damned Registrations]

The way they implemented it was super goofy, and it generally all fed back into combat, whether by making equipment, money, or assisting/teaching other characters non combat stuff, but it was actually fun to tinker with, which is what really matters. And it had some cool non-mechanical effects as well; pickpocketing or counterfeiting could affect relationships and party morale, writing great books could get you publishing deals, making certain gadgets would enable cutscenes with certain characters. So many moments in that game were pleasant surprises that tied back to something seemingly unimportant you were doing earlier.

 

[Pots Talos]

The way they implemented it was super goofy, and it generally all fed back into combat, whether by making equipment, money, or assisting/teaching other characters non combat stuff, but it was actually fun to tinker with, which is what really matters. And it had some cool non-mechanical effects as well; pickpocketing or counterfeiting could affect relationships and party morale, writing great books could get you publishing deals, making certain gadgets would enable cutscenes with certain characters. So many moments in that game were pleasant surprises that tied back to something seemingly unimportant you were doing earlier.

You’re talking about Star Ocean: Till the End of Time, right? I played that a long time ago when it was first released, and I remember really enjoying it. I’ll have to revisit it sometime soon.

and a ton of non combat skills and mechanics, most of which were done pretty well imo.

JRPGs can def. use more of this. Less separation between combat and the rest of the game world in general.

I agree and it is something I’ve tried hard to focus on.
So far, we’ve implemented; Burglary (lockpicking and disable device), fishing, taming, pickpocketing, haggling, and knowledge checks to decipher ancient books/runes.
I’d like to come up with more fun things to do with the day/night cycle. Currently it is used for NPC schedules, story stuff and breaking into houses at night.

 

[Damned Registrations]

You’re talking about Star Ocean: Till the End of Time, right?

Thats the third one iirc, on the PS2. I was talking about the one with 2D sprites on the PS1. I'd assume they carried over a lot of the same ideas though.

 

[purupuru]

Ruina 廃都の物語
Although I'm sure it was actually intended as a hybrid between jrpg and p&p.