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Classics of Hack and Slash: Die by the Sword and Severance: Blade of Darkness, now with Dark Messiah

baud

Arcane
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Septentrion
RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
Do we lump heretic2 in the same genre? Cause that was in another realm of fun at the time
If I remember that well, it was mostly range-based, without in-depth melee. There was also Rune, without either, but with Vikings ;)
Enclave too.

I've played it recently, I don't think the hack-slash part of the combat has much depth, or I just missed all of it by mostly using bows/crossbows and magic. Being able to chose and outfit your character at the start of a level and having two opposite campaigns were cool though.
 

DJOGamer PT

Arcane
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Lusitânia
Kingdom Come: Deliverance ... Sekiro

Kingdom Come has poor combat and Sekiro isn't all that good, not to mention it isn't at all simulationist but more of the fast paced type of DMC, Ninja Gaiden, etc...

some of the best heirs of Severance/Rune: Devil May Cry, Dark Souls,

DMC style of combat is of a very different type than Severance's.
Dark Souls combat is worse than Severance's, at best it can be called decent. NIOH combat is miles ahead of DS and is really the closest thing to Severance.

but in my opinion all the examples are inferior to SP titles: For Honor

For Honor combat is great, you shouldn't discard it just for being multiplayer.
 

samuraigaiden

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Dec 28, 2018
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Harare
RPG Wokedex
If anyone has problems getting the GOG version of Severance to work on Windows 10, just rename the video file for the intro movie to anything else (or delete if you don't mind). After doing this it's possible to use all graphical options, including OpenGL - and some mods only work on OpenGL mode.
 

yellowcake

Arcane
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
2,898
Location
Alas! in my skull
If anyone has problems getting the GOG version of Severance to work on Windows 10, just rename the video file for the intro movie to anything else (or delete if you don't mind). After doing this it's possible to use all graphical options, including OpenGL - and some mods only work on OpenGL mode.

Infamous intel indeo codec AFAIR.
 

Thal

Augur
Joined
Apr 4, 2015
Messages
413
Dark Messiah of Might and Magic

I have to be honest with you, After Severance, Arkane’s Dark Messiah felt disappointing in the beginning. The basics of the combat seemed, well, too basic. It was just hit–power hit-block that we’ve seen many times. Moreover, combat didn’t seem very responsive. Your sword has an unnatural reach and doesn’t seem to have weight at all. When you hit an enemy, it feels like the blade cuts nothing but air. This is the same shit that Skyrim is often accused. This could have been dealt with, if not for my real gripe: the first levels seemed to consist of corridors followed by a larger but still obviously contained areas. Severance was more successful creating the illusion of sprawling and logical areas from the start, even though it too was pretty linear. I'd stress though that after the first couple of levels, the quality begins to rise.
FAos1Ra.png

A typical open space, requiring some platforming to traverse while providing opportunities for creative fighting.

It didn’t take long for me to change my mind about combat either. Setting the famous physics, spiked rakes and even the kick aside for a moment, Dark Messiah introduces two basic attack modes that elevate the combat beyond the Skyrim standard. First, you will soon get a Jump Power Attack. Besides the damage bonus, you ragdoll the enemy if you manage to hit, which will allow you the kill him off with a Finishing Move when he slams on the floor. This simple addition along with the kick makes the combat so much more fluid and skill based. Why Bethesda didn’t copy this system for Skyrim is beyond me.

On Hardcore difficulty level, enemies become HP sponges and can kill you with 1-2 hits, but this doesn’t matter, because Arkane gave you the tools to kill them just as quickly. If you’ve mastered the game’s systems, built your character intelligently, have enough skill to do so, you’ll murder them in funny and spectacular ways. Besides the jump power attack, you can kick them over ledges, into spiky things and fire, cast freeze to make them slide there, drop coffins at them, throw stuff at them. Also, a right power attack makes the enemy fly right, over the ledges, etc, so directional attacks have a genuine purpose. But only for a dedicated fighter. You can’t do controlled directional attacks with a staff or daggers. So basically, Hardcore tests if you can take advantage of every tool the game gives you, instead of just boring you to death or making you resort to exploits.

I wouldn’t say the combat is as tight as in Severance though. It’s quite telling that Severance allowed you to have one full healing potion and a handful of lesser healing potions. Dark Messiah lets you carry 20 of each, gives you a healing spell for cheap and lets you save freely. There’s no real tension in the game as a result. However, tighter budget probably wouldn’t work here, because Dark Messiah plays too fast for it. It’s a different game and we have to accept that.

Dark Messiah is balanced fairly well. You build your character with skill points, and choices up to mid game are pretty tough. However, even though your Fighter/Mage doesn’t match pure Fighter in brute force, damage-negating Sanctuary spell trivializes most encounters. Itemization gets the job done, which is a high praise these days. Every weapon type has a different feel to it and magical gear is often found in secret areas. Also, sometimes it is powerful enough to make a sword and board fighter want to use daggers or staff, making gameplay more varied.

Level design starts out decent but improves significantly, because about halfway through get the rope arrows from Thief. After that, you’ll immediately learn to look up, which is a sure way to tell that you’re in a quality game. Besides that, the game is full of secret areas, traps, shadows and alternative routes. Probably the best level is the sprawling undead catacombs halfway into the game, which really capture the essentials dungeon crawling. However, the level design is significantly marred by a female spirit who inhabits the player character’s body from the start. She’s constantly giving you tips and warning you of traps even, robbing you of satisfaction of figuring things out yourself. This shit was clearly forced on Arkane by the suits, there is no other explanation. They had to dumb it down for the masses. Also, Like Severance, the game has pitch black areas, but conveniently enough you have night vision to make them redundant. However, you have to switch it on and off in combat to make sure you can see your enemies. I don’t like this mechanic; darkness is more of a nuisance when it should be a genuine threat that would force you to adapt.
0EObqUj.png

Typical elevation in Dark Messiah. A dedicated fighter might never even come here.

The music is forgettable and so is the art direction. Also, Ashan is one the blandest fantasy settings, with no real redeeming factors. To be honest, I’d love game like this in Forgotten Realms, complete with all the rpg clichés of course. The only way I could see this one work, was if they had really geeked out on HoMM 3 nostalgia and made you face the familiar enemies and town types as if inside a HoMM campaign. Or make it M&M science fantasy, which would have been something new as well. But alas, it’s a reboot instead. Well, the one interesting plot point is, that
the baddies are essentially Necropolis fighting Inferno
so occasionally you do get the comfy feeling that you’re in a HoMM game.

Now some negatives: There are escort-missions. With a mage. Who charges into combat. WHO DOESN’T LISTEN WHEN YOU TELL HER TO STAY PUT. Who comes up with this shit?

Also, if you play a mage and choose to use the staff, you’ll learn to hate the slick animations. See, if you try to power attack with a staff, you’ll have to hopelessly watch yourself charge it by whirling it around like an idiot while you are being murdered. As if that wasn’t enough, finishing moves are very hard, because the enemy has time to recover while you’re dicking around with your staff. Only the low power attack is fast enough to be viable in combat, which is what you always end up using. I understand that staff has to be worse than a sword, but there should have been another way to design it. When I press the attack button, I want to hit my enemy, not to watch a circus performance.

Is Dark Messiah a classic? Probably, but not an unequivocal one like Severance. It’s a pretty satisfying fantasy action game and we don’t have many of those, with or without cool physics. But I can’t say I like the unnatural range of weapons or the lacking feeling of weight behind swings. Also, the damage done on the level design by the lady inside your head is severe. It’s hard to let that slide, and DMs poor setting, music and art direction result in lacking atmosphere.

The plot is pointless and one of the most predictable ones I’ve ever seen. But again, it’s not why we are playing this game.
 
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sullynathan

Arcane
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Dec 22, 2015
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Not Europe
There has been a multiplayer rennaissance in the last years, but in my opinion all the examples are inferior to SP titles: For Honor, Mordhau, Chivalry, etc. However they are still better than western console"H&S", a different, simplified and popamolish style -GoW games, e.g.- that I wouldn't include in the same combat category than the aforementioned.
God of war combat has more depth than severance could ever muster and the rest of the console hack and slash genre puts to shame your entire list. Holy shit kingdomcome deliverance.
I played Severance recently and came away slightly disappointed. Good game, but it felt somewhat formulaic and repetitive after a while, and the combat wasn't as deep as it had been made out to be. Spamming the same combo over and over again is usually by far the best option, and even when it isn't, directional attacks rarely matter in practice. I certainly wouldn't rank it above Dark Souls.

It is a gorgeous game, I'll give it that.
The combat lacks depth and yet nearly every enemy cam be repeatedly stun locked while you still have rpg elements of finding weapons that do a lot of damage over time while the enemies stagnate.

Combat was not great and doesn't compare to any of the major melee action titles of the past two decades. Only the codex and some weird eastern Europeans exaggerate how good the game and its combat is.
 

DJOGamer PT

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Lusitânia
God of war combat has more depth than severance could ever muster and the rest of the console hack and slash genre puts to shame your entire list.

Holy shit sully.
Of all the games that you could use to make your point you had to go with the one that can't even get the camera perspective right. :lol:
Gtfo

I certainly wouldn't rank it above Dark Souls.

:nocountryforshitposters:
 
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CreamyBlood

Arcane
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
1,392
Dark Messiah of Might and Magic

I have to be honest with you, After Severance, Arkane’s Dark Messiah felt disappointing in the beginning....

Great review, man, nicely done. DMoMM is one of my favourite games of the last two decades. I played through twice (2.3 times really). Yes, it has it's drawbacks, most of which you pointed out and many of which I didn't even notice or care about. It is just a silly, ridiculous and *fun* game, as your ending video shows. Anyways, thanks for taking the time to take me back in time.
 
Joined
Dec 24, 2018
Messages
1,783
Also, if you play a mage and choose to use the staff, you’ll learn to hate the slick animations. See, if you try to power attack with a staff, you’ll have to hopelessly watch yourself charge it by whirling it around like an idiot while you are being murdered. As if that wasn’t enough, finishing moves are very hard, because the enemy has time to recover while you’re dicking around with your staff. Only the low power attack is fast enough to be viable in combat, which is what you always end up using. I understand that staff has to be worse than a sword, but there should have been another way to design it. When I press the attack button, I want to hit my enemy, not to watch a circus performance.

Staffs are godly, their power attacks have a high stun chance and they're really good at hitting multiple targets. You can take on basically any number of foes in melee with a staff, with ease; you just need to know how to maneuver so your enemies can't what you while you're charging up your attack. If you need a quick charge up you jump and then ready your power attack, it'll take place near instantly.
 

Deadyawn

Learned
Joined
Dec 1, 2019
Messages
108
Location
Argentina
:necro:

Went in for my yearly playthrough to find that it got a bunch of updates and has been rebranded to just "Blade of Darkness". They gave it the typical "HD treatment" these 2000s games get with upscaled textures and post-processing effects, not that it really needed it. There's also a new "free look" camera which looks nice but feels awful in combat, so stick with the tank camera.

 

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