Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Grunker]

You on this train as well? That surprises me. Kingmaker's combat past level 8 is a degenerate mess. Before that I really enjoyed it but after, the creases in Pathfinder and the sheer lack of balance that resultats from the complexity start to break the game down

I'm just going by Codex consensus. I haven't started it, though I will try soon.

This is not only the case in Kingmaker, though, it was a problem with D&D higher levels in general.

Untrue, at least when we're talking scale. The problem is vastly bigger in 3.5/PF than in AD&D (and I say this as someone who loves 3.5/PF and really dislikes AD&D). Reason being AD&D's layers of spell protection, which is also what ultimately leads to Baldur's Gate on SCS being so interesting.

3.5/PF breaks down firstly because of its complexity which makes AD&D-rules look like a carefully balanced game of deterministic chess, and second because the emphasis is put so squarely on attacks while defenses are mostly a waste of time. As such, just to try and balance the game just a tiny, tiny bit, even on lower difficulties than the highest, Kingmaker piles loads and loads and loads of random stats on top the enemies - they get shit like +40AC, +20 saving throws and so on. Just to have the slightest chance of beating the onslaught of rules you're throwing at them.

PF is fun because of the character customization and Kingmaker *really* shines in this department, but beyond the lower levels I didn't have a single, interesting combat encounter for the same reason.

You'll get critics saying the game is dogshit for this reason and apologetic fans denying the lack of balance by calling you a Sawyerist or whatever. The truth is pretty simple: Kingmaker pays for a *heavenly* deep character customization experience with an utter lack of balance unrivaled by most other games.

 

[Allyriadil]

People who like rtwp should be put in prison.

At least it allows me to turbo through thrash encounters. D:OS had plenty of them.
I would love to see something like the combat from the Goldbox games again, but yeah it's Larian we are talking about. Almost all their games are riddled with terrible design decisions.

 

[Lacrymas]

So I really can't be excited about something just because it's AAA.

It's not only because it's AAA, it's because it's the first ever turn-based D&D RPG. With an AAA budget. It might introduce more people to D&D and RPGs. Yeah, I guess that budget forces them into a weird modern 3D space and I hate that, but eh, we'll see how it turns out. I would have preferred a bit more style over generic 3D, but I also know you win some you lose some.

Grunker, I meant the corresponding D&D edition, i.e. 3 or 3.5. AD&D also has such a problem, though, but it's confined only to the mages really.

 

[Turtle-Zone 3000]

 

[Van-d-all]

With an AAA budget.

And that's an issue. AAA product requires AAA sales, and those imply as wide audience as possible, ergo a shallow game.

 

[Mazisky]

I see no timer or clock in the UI: so, they are not making a day night cycle just like Dos1 and 2? Because all Bgs had it.

This would be a total decline.

 

[Lacrymas]

With an AAA budget.

And that's an issue. AAA product requires AAA sales, and those imply as wide audience as possible, ergo a shallow game.

Like I said, I expect this to be Larian's swansong because a lengthy TB RPG is not AAA territory. I don't really see how they would manage to spread it as wide as possible with the other aspects. Graphics? Ok, but everything else? It doesn't seem like it's ripe for lowest common denominator.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

With an AAA budget.

And that's an issue. AAA product requires AAA sales, and those imply as wide audience as possible, ergo a shallow game.

Like I said, I expect this to be Larian's swansong because a lengthy TB RPG is not AAA territory.

You should get a job as a publisher.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

With an AAA budget.

And that's an issue. AAA product requires AAA sales, and those imply as wide audience as possible, ergo a shallow game.

Like I said, I expect this to be Larian's swansong because a lengthy TB RPG is not AAA territory.

You should get a job as a publisher.

I'm guessing that it pays well to be a male prostitute in Berlin and he enjoys it too))

 

[Mortmal]

So I really can't be excited about something just because it's AAA.

It's not only because it's AAA, it's because it's the first ever turn-based D&D RPG ever. With an AAA budget. Yeah, I guess that budget forces them into a weird modern 3D space and I hate that, but eh, we'll see how it turns out. I would have preferred a bit more style over generic 3D, but I also know you win some you lose some.

Grunker, I meant the corresponding D&D edition, i.e. 3 or 3.5. AD&D also has such a problem, though, but it's confined only the mages really.

You are right, its the biggest real D&D crpg with such a huge budget , it's really ballsy from larian. As for it looking generic, its the forgotten realms, they cant do miracle… One can hope if it works good we get new settings after that.

 

[Van-d-all]

It doesn't seem like it's ripe for lowest common denominator.

Oh it does. Like nuXcom.

 

[Danikas]

LOL Divinity 2 reskin.

 

[Saravan]

via Imgflip Meme Generator

 

[Lacrymas]

I'm guessing that it pays well to be a male prostitute in Berlin and he enjoys it too))

It actually does. I'm not in Berlin or a prostitute, but being a callboy is extremely lucrative. Like ~200 Euro an hour.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

LOL Divinity 2 reskin.

Didn't even get the game right, genius.

 

[jf8350143]

The budget didn't really look that high tbh.

The graphics looks quite dated by today's standard.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

I'm guessing that it pays well to be a male prostitute in Berlin and he enjoys it too))

It actually does. I'm not in Berlin or a prostitute, but being a callboy is extremely lucrative.

That doesn't surprise me at all, s1sede.

 

[Delterius]

isometric turn-based RPG

high fidelity cinematic dialogue

this is the one permutation i didn't expect tbh

 

[Daidre]

Untrue, at least when we're talking sca The problem is vastly bigger in 3.5/PF than in AD&D (and I say this as someone who loves 3.5/PF and really dislikes AD&D). Reason being AD&D's layers of spell protection, which is also what ultimately leads to Baldur's Gate on SCS being so interesting.

Correct me if I am wrong, but BG's layers of spell protections were never a thing in any (A)D&D edition.

Completely broken spells that give unlimited immunity to all weapons for a 4(!) rounds is purely Bioware's creation and exist only as a crutch to give AI fighting chance. Remove it, and all concept of mage duel falls apart and it is an only thing that salvages high level fights in BG 2.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Untrue, at least when we're talking sca The problem is vastly bigger in 3.5/PF than in AD&D (and I say this as someone who loves 3.5/PF and really dislikes AD&D). Reason being AD&D's layers of spell protection, which is also what ultimately leads to Baldur's Gate on SCS being so interesting.

Correct me if I am wrong, but BG's layers of spell protections were never a thing in any (A)D&D edition.

Completely broken spells that gives unlimited immunity to all weapons for a 4(!) rounds is purely Bioware's creation and exist only as a crutch to give AI fighting chance. Remove it, and all concept of mage duel falls apart and itis a only thing that salvages high level fights in BG 2.

Many things in the BG games aren't true to the rules. A bunch of splat rules are applied incorrectly, many divine and arcane spells are mixed up, spells at the wrong level, a bunch of things pulled from unofficial sources, etc.,

 

[Verylittlefishes]

The budget didn't really look that high tbh.

The graphics looks quite dated by today's standard.

It is not that this is dated, it looks generic cartoonish bright colors pow-wow as fuck.

 

[Ausdoerrt]

DOS2 was immensely popular despite being a messy pile of what the hell and a clear downgrade over #1 in most areas.

It had a more generic / mainstream story, which is what sold it to most people, I think. DOS1 was more like proof of concept.

Which this will have to an even higher degree, only support my point :D

Not arguing - I prefer DOS1, myself.

This honestly astounds me. I know plenty of people with fairly diverse gaming tastes, casual and hardcore but none like DoS2, yet online it seems popular and it has good player numbers of steam. Where do all these people come from? Who are they?

Like, other people who play games outside of this forum and your immediate circle? Also, non-RPG gamers? In any case, DOS made enough dough to warrant a kickstarter for a tabletop game, ffs. It's popular, alright.

People wanted PoE-esque art with good D&D-based combat (whether turn-based or rtwp) and normal-looking dialogue. As it is now, when it comes to successors, PoE wins art, Kingmaker wins combat and writing (low bar), BG3 wins, uh... maybe the combat will hold up?

PoE wins art, really? Was it the uncanny valley portraits, Unity-quality character models, or the samey environments?

 

[Grunker]

Untrue, at least when we're talking sca The problem is vastly bigger in 3.5/PF than in AD&D (and I say this as someone who loves 3.5/PF and really dislikes AD&D). Reason being AD&D's layers of spell protection, which is also what ultimately leads to Baldur's Gate on SCS being so interesting.

Correct me if I am wrong, but BG's layers of spell protections were never a thing in any (A)D&D edition.

Completely broken spells that give unlimited immunity to all weapons for a 4(!) rounds is purely Bioware's creation and exist only as a crutch to give AI fighting chance. Remove it, and all concept of mage duel falls apart and it is an only thing that salvages high level fights in BG 2.

I'm talking about protection from spells specifically, not stuff like immunity to weapons. The skeleton for these exist in the rules, it was just built upon in the IE-games.

And don't cite me for calling AD&D balanced on higher levels, please. Anyone who knows anything about me will know I think the exact opposite. Even so, it cannot compete with PF/3.5 in this regard, and the main reason is the vast increase in complexity.

In any case, my point still stands even if the reason isn't the same. And Kingmaker uses even more basic crutches, such as the aforementioned piles and piles of stats heaped on top of opponents. Yet it is not near enough to stop combat from being an auto-attack fest past level 8. In rare occassions, you will have to buff before auto-attacking and in even rarer cases the game gives an enemy immunity to all conventional attacks meaning you have to use something incredibly specific (or use Deadly Earth spam) to defeat it. These latter encounters are not difficult tactically, they only demand you identify the correct strategic solution (...or Deadly Earth spam...) after which you just apply that ad nauseam. And they really only exist at the end of the game.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

the answer to mage duels is always keldorn

 

[Lyric Suite]

Wow, it's fucking nothing.

Imagine thinking we could have incline for a change.

I'll probably buy it when it's like 80% off and never play it, like i did with Pillars and nuTorment lmao

RIP childhood, never to be seen again.