Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Richard Leaks]

I really don't care about D&D,if i want to play it,i gather a bunch of friend,get a bottle of brandy and have fun. This is computer game that became a classic because of its gorgeous art,fun fantasy setting and rtwp.

And here we have it, rtwp-fag does not care about the game. Only wants to click on the awesome buttons.

 

[Ent]

You can't really up the stakes in BG3 without going full on God vs God apocalypse type stuff and DnD (regardless of edition) really starts breaking down in those super high level situations. I personally blame it on d20 as a system but you just have to accept it and move on I guess. I believe that the sweet spot in these games are the early to mid levels.

Ahhh were they really that high? The BG was more of a personal story than anything that will affect the world. Sure you get kill a bunch of powerful people in the world and maybe become a god. But it was not like it really affected the world.

Anything level 20+ starts to deal with the realms of gods and plane hopping tomfoolery and the expansion let you get all the way to around 40.

 

[Tytus]

The loud and vocal majority that scream "InClInE!!!!!111!!11" literally any time they see the word turn-based need to be hung and quartered.

Yeah,they are the SJW of the RPG niche. It is a shame that devs do listen to those retards.

RTwP vs TB which is superior and why? Discuss.

That is not my point really,both are good systems and have great games done with it. I do like both of them. The problem is all those retards that could only play TB and want every RPG to be turned in to a TB one. The ones that cheer as BG ends up as TB,a franchise that had at least 6 rtwp games in its realm/world. Such people are literally like the sjws on twatter,they just circlejerk each other in to deluding themself that everyone else is like them and screech heresy at everyone that doesn't bend to their dogma.

Baldur's Gate (and all other IE games for that matter) was inherently was such a neutered adaptation of D&D combat, that it was basically reduced to Ultima 7 level. You're the one deluding yourself thinking it's there was any redeeming featuers BG 1&2 that are somehow not present in this.

I really don't care about D&D,if i want to play it,i gather a bunch of friend,get a bottle of brandy and have fun. This is computer game that became a classic because of its gorgeous art,fun fantasy setting and rtwp.

Did it really?

Or did it happen more like this:

This is a computer game that became a classic because of its gorgeous art, fun fantasy setting, good music, many dialogue options/role play opportunities and DESPITE RTwP.

 

[Dedicated_Dark]

Thing is I understand why the TB crowd is so vocal. RTwP has some severe issues that are sadly built-in and I never seen any game that managed to address it. With RTwP games, especially the harder ones, you are must heavily rely on abusing the pause button, because AI of your team is sadly lacking and no amount automation (so far) was able to fix it. Your party will fire spells into your line, use AOEs incorrectly, waste healing using it too early or too late, they won't react to flanking or being flat-footed correctly etc. RTwP is designed (at least in theory) to be more action oriented and a faster type of gameplay, but in the end it forces you to micro almost everything reducing to encounter speed to a slog, thus kinda defeating the purpose of the entire exercise.

Old IE games had this problem, Dragon Age had this problem.

I would say Dragon Age almost avoided this problem, the scripting actions system the game gave ala gambits from ff12 was most definitely a step in the right direction. There is a mod to add even more functions to Dragon Age, that one makes the play quite good. Though Dragon Age is quite slow in-itself that there was never any issue of needing too many micro's per second and combat is rather streamlined.

 

[Reinhardt]

I'm just skipping last 20 pages of butthurted codexers trying to outperform each other pretending to be TRUE OLDSKOOL RPG GAMES GAMER.

 

[Jarpie]

I'm not sure people are understanding the context and how much of an unbelievable miracle it is that we are getting an AAA turn-based faithful to D&D RPG. All of the complaints against eye-bleeding SFX and cringe-y writing pale in comparison.

Who the fuck cares if it's the "Mythical AAA TB rpg!" if the game itself is shit, I only care if it's good or not, and all signs points to it being very meh at the best.

 

[fantadomat]

The loud and vocal majority that scream "InClInE!!!!!111!!11" literally any time they see the word turn-based need to be hung and quartered.

Yeah,they are the SJW of the RPG niche. It is a shame that devs do listen to those retards.

RTwP vs TB which is superior and why? Discuss.

That is not my point really,both are good systems and have great games done with it. I do like both of them. The problem is all those retards that could only play TB and want every RPG to be turned in to a TB one. The ones that cheer as BG ends up as TB,a franchise that had at least 6 rtwp games in its realm/world. Such people are literally like the sjws on twatter,they just circlejerk each other in to deluding themself that everyone else is like them and screech heresy at everyone that doesn't bend to their dogma.

Thing is I understand why the TB crowd is so vocal. RTwP has some severe issues that are sadly built-in and I never seen any game that managed to address it. With RTwP games, especially the harder ones, you are must heavily rely on abusing the pause button, because AI of your team is sadly lacking and no amount automation (so far) was able to fix it. Your party will fire spells into your line, use AOEs incorrectly, waste healing using it too early or too late, they won't react to flanking or being flat-footed correctly etc. RTwP is designed (at least in theory) to be more action oriented and a faster type of gameplay, but in the end it forces you to micro almost everything reducing to encounter speed to a slog, thus kinda defeating the purpose of the entire exercise.

Old IE games had this problem, Dragon Age had this problem. PoE had this problem, Kingmaker had this problem (despite offering a large array of options for the AI behaviours).

And it's not even the issue of "Get Gud Fagget" because to play at maximum efficiency you will have to micro, so will have abuse the pause button, so you will impact the speed of the game. It's such a built-in issue, that I almost don't like calling it a problem. It's more of a feature really.

TB system is slower by design yes, but does not have this schizophrenic meltdown when it comes to gameplay speed as RTwP have.
In short RTwP is flawed by design while TB is not. It comes down to personal taste really if a person likes TB or not, but it doesn't have to face the same self-imposed challenges like RTwP does. And some people are just not looking into a game with a system where you shoot yourself in the foot at the very start of the race.

How is that a flaw? I have never played rtwp with full on active ai,especially on casters. The most i let them attack the closest and let fighters use their skills while i command the casters. The two systems are made to be played differently. I very rarely pause,even on harder fights and difficulty,most of the time i just let them auto attack and cast offensive spells. The things you dislike about the system is what it makes it good for me mate,i do like the faster pasted action and higher demand of situation/terrain perception and the complexity of the combat. In reality you could end up a boss fight in rtwp before you could end up your first round in tb fighting trash encounter. I believe rtwp to be more complex and combat diverse. While the TB system is becoming stale,you do know what you could do and what the ai will do,it is more of a minor puzzle to be honest. While in rtwp you could end up in situation because of how mobile the battle is. Some times your enemy might decide to pull back and your heroes ending up surrounded or having the wrong fighter in the place of the tank,or you could kill the right enemy at good time and end up running behind enemy lines with your rogue and going for that backstab. RTwP is superior in the tactical aspect hands down,also it demands more skills from the player,while TB needs you to just know the effects of the skills and not to be a retard.




In the end liking one system over the other is not the problem,the problem is trying impose your taste on to other people.

 

[Ent]

Feels like most of these arguments could have been avoided if the game was called something else like "Adventures in the Forgotten Realms".

 

[fantadomat]

You can't really up the stakes in BG3 without going full on God vs God apocalypse type stuff and DnD (regardless of edition) really starts breaking down in those super high level situations. I personally blame it on d20 as a system but you just have to accept it and move on I guess. I believe that the sweet spot in these games are the early to mid levels.

Ahhh were they really that high? The BG was more of a personal story than anything that will affect the world. Sure you get kill a bunch of powerful people in the world and maybe become a god. But it was not like it really affected the world.

Anything level 20+ starts to deal with the realms of gods and plane hopping tomfoolery and the expansion let you get all the way to around 40.

Not arguing that,i was saying that the story itself is more of a contained personal one than some grand epic campaign to save the world. It is a story about some retard killing off your father figure and putting you on the path of adventure. The first game was about merchant guild trying their hand at stock fixing. While the second one is about a cucked elf's hissy fit. In the end the protag is just reacting to retards trying to kill him and thus amassing power.

 

[Reinhardt]

I don't like the dialogs but i like combat. Maybe i even launch DOS2 after all for the first time.

 

[deuxhero]

Old IE games had this problem, Dragon Age had this problem. PoE had this problem, Kingmaker had this problem (despite offering a large array of options for the AI behaviours).

And KotOR has this problem. KotOR is especially damning since your options are so limited yet the AI still needs baby sitting. You can attack, use a special attack you bought with feats that's almost always always better than normal attack, use a special attack that's useless because you never invested in it but got as part of your class feats, use a force power (Only 4/10 characters have this option) use an item, and change targets to do any of the following. You can order the AI to spam its special attack on one enemy, and it will still decide to aggro an enemy barely in view with a special attack they have no feats in.

 

[fantadomat]

Did it really?

Or did it happen more like this:

This is a computer game that became a classic because of its gorgeous art, fun fantasy setting, good music, many dialogue options/role play opportunities and DESPITE RTwP.

Yes,after all half of the people that enjoyed it,maybe more. Did so because of it. If you take half of the sales away and two thirds of the mouth to mouth marketing....well it wouldn't have been such a hit. It was one of the first rpgs that i had played and loved,it did introduce me to a lot of similar games,and i didn't know shit about d&d for years after that. And i am not alone in those experiences . Many people found rpgs because of BG. If it wasn't rtwp,only d&d nerds would have shown any real interest in it,and that wasn't a majority back then.

 

[Riddler]

The loud and vocal majority that scream "InClInE!!!!!111!!11" literally any time they see the word turn-based need to be hung and quartered.

Yeah,they are the SJW of the RPG niche. It is a shame that devs do listen to those retards.

RTwP vs TB which is superior and why? Discuss.

That is not my point really,both are good systems and have great games done with it. I do like both of them. The problem is all those retards that could only play TB and want every RPG to be turned in to a TB one. The ones that cheer as BG ends up as TB,a franchise that had at least 6 rtwp games in its realm/world. Such people are literally like the sjws on twatter,they just circlejerk each other in to deluding themself that everyone else is like them and screech heresy at everyone that doesn't bend to their dogma.

Thing is I understand why the TB crowd is so vocal. RTwP has some severe issues that are sadly built-in and I never seen any game that managed to address it. With RTwP games, especially the harder ones, you are must heavily rely on abusing the pause button, because AI of your team is sadly lacking and no amount automation (so far) was able to fix it. Your party will fire spells into your line, use AOEs incorrectly, waste healing using it too early or too late, they won't react to flanking or being flat-footed correctly etc. RTwP is designed (at least in theory) to be more action oriented and a faster type of gameplay, but in the end it forces you to micro almost everything reducing to encounter speed to a slog, thus kinda defeating the purpose of the entire exercise.

Old IE games had this problem, Dragon Age had this problem. PoE had this problem, Kingmaker had this problem (despite offering a large array of options for the AI behaviours).

And it's not even the issue of "Get Gud Fagget" because to play at maximum efficiency you will have to micro, so will have abuse the pause button, so you will impact the speed of the game. It's such a built-in issue, that I almost don't like calling it a problem. It's more of a feature really.

TB system is slower by design yes, but does not have this schizophrenic meltdown when it comes to gameplay speed as RTwP have.
In short RTwP is flawed by design while TB is not. It comes down to personal taste really if a person likes TB or not, but it doesn't have to face the same self-imposed challenges like RTwP does. And some people are just not looking into a game with a system where you shoot yourself in the foot at the very start of the race.

How is that a flaw? I have never played rtwp with full on active ai,especially on casters. The most i let them attack the closest and let fighters use their skills while i command the casters. The two systems are made to be played differently. I very rarely pause,even on harder fights and difficulty,most of the time i just let them auto attack and cast offensive spells. The things you dislike about the system is what it makes it good for me mate,i do like the faster pasted action and higher demand of situation/terrain perception and the complexity of the combat. In reality you could end up a boss fight in rtwp before you could end up your first round in tb fighting trash encounter. I believe rtwp to be more complex and combat diverse. While the TB system is becoming stale,you do know what you could do and what the ai will do,it is more of a minor puzzle to be honest. While in rtwp you could end up in situation because of how mobile the battle is. Some times your enemy might decide to pull back and your heroes ending up surrounded or having the wrong fighter in the place of the tank,or you could kill the right enemy at good time and end up running behind enemy lines with your rogue and going for that backstab. RTwP is superior in the tactical aspect hands down,also it demands more skills from the player,while TB needs you to just know the effects of the skills and not to be a retard.




In the end liking one system over the other is not the problem,the problem is trying impose your taste on to other people.

In addition to this there is also the simultaneous "turn" resolution.

I like TB and RtwP, they both have their strengths and weaknesses and while I think it's pretty bad brand management to make a BG3 turn based I don't really care as long as its good TB. The issue for me is that I have little faith in Larian providing this and everything else looks like a complete Trainwreck.

Best case scenario, for me, given the limited information we currently have is that they make a relatively faithful implementation of 5e and provide good mod tools/license their engine to more competent developers.

 

[fantadomat]

The loud and vocal majority that scream "InClInE!!!!!111!!11" literally any time they see the word turn-based need to be hung and quartered.

Yeah,they are the SJW of the RPG niche. It is a shame that devs do listen to those retards.

RTwP vs TB which is superior and why? Discuss.

That is not my point really,both are good systems and have great games done with it. I do like both of them. The problem is all those retards that could only play TB and want every RPG to be turned in to a TB one. The ones that cheer as BG ends up as TB,a franchise that had at least 6 rtwp games in its realm/world. Such people are literally like the sjws on twatter,they just circlejerk each other in to deluding themself that everyone else is like them and screech heresy at everyone that doesn't bend to their dogma.

Thing is I understand why the TB crowd is so vocal. RTwP has some severe issues that are sadly built-in and I never seen any game that managed to address it. With RTwP games, especially the harder ones, you are must heavily rely on abusing the pause button, because AI of your team is sadly lacking and no amount automation (so far) was able to fix it. Your party will fire spells into your line, use AOEs incorrectly, waste healing using it too early or too late, they won't react to flanking or being flat-footed correctly etc. RTwP is designed (at least in theory) to be more action oriented and a faster type of gameplay, but in the end it forces you to micro almost everything reducing to encounter speed to a slog, thus kinda defeating the purpose of the entire exercise.

Old IE games had this problem, Dragon Age had this problem. PoE had this problem, Kingmaker had this problem (despite offering a large array of options for the AI behaviours).

And it's not even the issue of "Get Gud Fagget" because to play at maximum efficiency you will have to micro, so will have abuse the pause button, so you will impact the speed of the game. It's such a built-in issue, that I almost don't like calling it a problem. It's more of a feature really.

TB system is slower by design yes, but does not have this schizophrenic meltdown when it comes to gameplay speed as RTwP have.
In short RTwP is flawed by design while TB is not. It comes down to personal taste really if a person likes TB or not, but it doesn't have to face the same self-imposed challenges like RTwP does. And some people are just not looking into a game with a system where you shoot yourself in the foot at the very start of the race.

How is that a flaw? I have never played rtwp with full on active ai,especially on casters. The most i let them attack the closest and let fighters use their skills while i command the casters. The two systems are made to be played differently. I very rarely pause,even on harder fights and difficulty,most of the time i just let them auto attack and cast offensive spells. The things you dislike about the system is what it makes it good for me mate,i do like the faster pasted action and higher demand of situation/terrain perception and the complexity of the combat. In reality you could end up a boss fight in rtwp before you could end up your first round in tb fighting trash encounter. I believe rtwp to be more complex and combat diverse. While the TB system is becoming stale,you do know what you could do and what the ai will do,it is more of a minor puzzle to be honest. While in rtwp you could end up in situation because of how mobile the battle is. Some times your enemy might decide to pull back and your heroes ending up surrounded or having the wrong fighter in the place of the tank,or you could kill the right enemy at good time and end up running behind enemy lines with your rogue and going for that backstab. RTwP is superior in the tactical aspect hands down,also it demands more skills from the player,while TB needs you to just know the effects of the skills and not to be a retard.




In the end liking one system over the other is not the problem,the problem is trying impose your taste on to other people.

In addition to this there is also the simultaneous "turn" resolution.

I like TB and RtwP, they both have their strengths and weaknesses and while I think it's pretty bad brand management to make a BG3 turn based I don't really care as long as its good TB. The issue for me is that I have little faith in Larian providing this and everything else looks like a complete Trainwreck.

Best case scenario, for me, given the limited information we currently have is that they make a relatively faithful implementation of 5e and provide good mod tools/license their engine to more competent developers.

They should have done as owlcat,make a core of rtwp and add tb as an option.

 

[Riddler]

The loud and vocal majority that scream "InClInE!!!!!111!!11" literally any time they see the word turn-based need to be hung and quartered.

Yeah,they are the SJW of the RPG niche. It is a shame that devs do listen to those retards.

RTwP vs TB which is superior and why? Discuss.

That is not my point really,both are good systems and have great games done with it. I do like both of them. The problem is all those retards that could only play TB and want every RPG to be turned in to a TB one. The ones that cheer as BG ends up as TB,a franchise that had at least 6 rtwp games in its realm/world. Such people are literally like the sjws on twatter,they just circlejerk each other in to deluding themself that everyone else is like them and screech heresy at everyone that doesn't bend to their dogma.

Thing is I understand why the TB crowd is so vocal. RTwP has some severe issues that are sadly built-in and I never seen any game that managed to address it. With RTwP games, especially the harder ones, you are must heavily rely on abusing the pause button, because AI of your team is sadly lacking and no amount automation (so far) was able to fix it. Your party will fire spells into your line, use AOEs incorrectly, waste healing using it too early or too late, they won't react to flanking or being flat-footed correctly etc. RTwP is designed (at least in theory) to be more action oriented and a faster type of gameplay, but in the end it forces you to micro almost everything reducing to encounter speed to a slog, thus kinda defeating the purpose of the entire exercise.

Old IE games had this problem, Dragon Age had this problem. PoE had this problem, Kingmaker had this problem (despite offering a large array of options for the AI behaviours).

And it's not even the issue of "Get Gud Fagget" because to play at maximum efficiency you will have to micro, so will have abuse the pause button, so you will impact the speed of the game. It's such a built-in issue, that I almost don't like calling it a problem. It's more of a feature really.

TB system is slower by design yes, but does not have this schizophrenic meltdown when it comes to gameplay speed as RTwP have.
In short RTwP is flawed by design while TB is not. It comes down to personal taste really if a person likes TB or not, but it doesn't have to face the same self-imposed challenges like RTwP does. And some people are just not looking into a game with a system where you shoot yourself in the foot at the very start of the race.

How is that a flaw? I have never played rtwp with full on active ai,especially on casters. The most i let them attack the closest and let fighters use their skills while i command the casters. The two systems are made to be played differently. I very rarely pause,even on harder fights and difficulty,most of the time i just let them auto attack and cast offensive spells. The things you dislike about the system is what it makes it good for me mate,i do like the faster pasted action and higher demand of situation/terrain perception and the complexity of the combat. In reality you could end up a boss fight in rtwp before you could end up your first round in tb fighting trash encounter. I believe rtwp to be more complex and combat diverse. While the TB system is becoming stale,you do know what you could do and what the ai will do,it is more of a minor puzzle to be honest. While in rtwp you could end up in situation because of how mobile the battle is. Some times your enemy might decide to pull back and your heroes ending up surrounded or having the wrong fighter in the place of the tank,or you could kill the right enemy at good time and end up running behind enemy lines with your rogue and going for that backstab. RTwP is superior in the tactical aspect hands down,also it demands more skills from the player,while TB needs you to just know the effects of the skills and not to be a retard.




In the end liking one system over the other is not the problem,the problem is trying impose your taste on to other people.

In addition to this there is also the simultaneous "turn" resolution.

I like TB and RtwP, they both have their strengths and weaknesses and while I think it's pretty bad brand management to make a BG3 turn based I don't really care as long as its good TB. The issue for me is that I have little faith in Larian providing this and everything else looks like a complete Trainwreck.

Best case scenario, for me, given the limited information we currently have is that they make a relatively faithful implementation of 5e and provide good mod tools/license their engine to more competent developers.

They should have done as owlcat,make a core of rtwp and add tb as an option.

Nah, if they aren't even able to implement good TB why would they be able to make a game that is balanced for two game modes at the same time?

 

[Tytus]

The loud and vocal majority that scream "InClInE!!!!!111!!11" literally any time they see the word turn-based need to be hung and quartered.

Yeah,they are the SJW of the RPG niche. It is a shame that devs do listen to those retards.

RTwP vs TB which is superior and why? Discuss.

That is not my point really,both are good systems and have great games done with it. I do like both of them. The problem is all those retards that could only play TB and want every RPG to be turned in to a TB one. The ones that cheer as BG ends up as TB,a franchise that had at least 6 rtwp games in its realm/world. Such people are literally like the sjws on twatter,they just circlejerk each other in to deluding themself that everyone else is like them and screech heresy at everyone that doesn't bend to their dogma.

Thing is I understand why the TB crowd is so vocal. RTwP has some severe issues that are sadly built-in and I never seen any game that managed to address it. With RTwP games, especially the harder ones, you are must heavily rely on abusing the pause button, because AI of your team is sadly lacking and no amount automation (so far) was able to fix it. Your party will fire spells into your line, use AOEs incorrectly, waste healing using it too early or too late, they won't react to flanking or being flat-footed correctly etc. RTwP is designed (at least in theory) to be more action oriented and a faster type of gameplay, but in the end it forces you to micro almost everything reducing to encounter speed to a slog, thus kinda defeating the purpose of the entire exercise.

Old IE games had this problem, Dragon Age had this problem. PoE had this problem, Kingmaker had this problem (despite offering a large array of options for the AI behaviours).

And it's not even the issue of "Get Gud Fagget" because to play at maximum efficiency you will have to micro, so will have abuse the pause button, so you will impact the speed of the game. It's such a built-in issue, that I almost don't like calling it a problem. It's more of a feature really.

TB system is slower by design yes, but does not have this schizophrenic meltdown when it comes to gameplay speed as RTwP have.
In short RTwP is flawed by design while TB is not. It comes down to personal taste really if a person likes TB or not, but it doesn't have to face the same self-imposed challenges like RTwP does. And some people are just not looking into a game with a system where you shoot yourself in the foot at the very start of the race.

How is that a flaw? I have never played rtwp with full on active ai,especially on casters. The most i let them attack the closest and let fighters use their skills while i command the casters. The two systems are made to be played differently. I very rarely pause,even on harder fights and difficulty,most of the time i just let them auto attack and cast offensive spells. The things you dislike about the system is what it makes it good for me mate,i do like the faster pasted action and higher demand of situation/terrain perception and the complexity of the combat. In reality you could end up a boss fight in rtwp before you could end up your first round in tb fighting trash encounter. I believe rtwp to be more complex and combat diverse. While the TB system is becoming stale,you do know what you could do and what the ai will do,it is more of a minor puzzle to be honest. While in rtwp you could end up in situation because of how mobile the battle is. Some times your enemy might decide to pull back and your heroes ending up surrounded or having the wrong fighter in the place of the tank,or you could kill the right enemy at good time and end up running behind enemy lines with your rogue and going for that backstab. RTwP is superior in the tactical aspect hands down,also it demands more skills from the player,while TB needs you to just know the effects of the skills and not to be a retard.




In the end liking one system over the other is not the problem,the problem is trying impose your taste on to other people.

How is that a flaw? Well let's see:

When you say, RTwP is more complex and combat diverse and I will have to disagree. It becomes stale very very fast. RTwP encourages bad behaviour like "kiting" for example just because you complex uber-fun fast paced combat system will do a bullshit move and spawn enemy mobs behind you to surround you (Looking at you Kingmaker). TB does not have this problem. And the fact that is a small puzzle, makes much more complex than RTwP because when and if you fuck up it's almost entirely your fault. And not because you imposed on yourself restrictions like no "kiting" to no break "muh immersiun" and not ruin the combat for yourself but the game still pulls a bullshit move on you, as the system itself is not good enough to play fair.

Not to mention RTwP also encourages the developer to throw much bigger trash mobs against you. Making games really silly. When you completed like 50% of the game, it was like 3 months in-game time and you already killed 900 people/enemies/monsters. (Again reducing the speed of the game and turning especially dungeon crawls and grind filled slogs) TB does not have this problem, because the system itself demands less trash mobs and makes the encounters carrying more weight to them.

And hey you can like a flawed system that is your prerogative it's ok to have guilty pleasures, but many people don't want to play a system that has this many issues. And RTwP has a lots of problems. I haven't listed them all out. If I did it would be a much larger post.

Also lol, RTwP = muh skills. Sure buddy. Whatever you say.

But even if you were right (you aren't) games when you rely more on character skills not "gamer" skills are much better. Because it is a Role playing game, not a Twitch reflex playing game

 

[Ent]

It's a personal story but it does ultimately boil down to whether or not the Player accepts or rejects the mantle of God of Murder. Im simply trying to say that DnD at that level becomes a mess to manage so I'm fine with things going back to lvl 1.

 

[fantadomat]

The loud and vocal majority that scream "InClInE!!!!!111!!11" literally any time they see the word turn-based need to be hung and quartered.

Yeah,they are the SJW of the RPG niche. It is a shame that devs do listen to those retards.

RTwP vs TB which is superior and why? Discuss.

That is not my point really,both are good systems and have great games done with it. I do like both of them. The problem is all those retards that could only play TB and want every RPG to be turned in to a TB one. The ones that cheer as BG ends up as TB,a franchise that had at least 6 rtwp games in its realm/world. Such people are literally like the sjws on twatter,they just circlejerk each other in to deluding themself that everyone else is like them and screech heresy at everyone that doesn't bend to their dogma.

Thing is I understand why the TB crowd is so vocal. RTwP has some severe issues that are sadly built-in and I never seen any game that managed to address it. With RTwP games, especially the harder ones, you are must heavily rely on abusing the pause button, because AI of your team is sadly lacking and no amount automation (so far) was able to fix it. Your party will fire spells into your line, use AOEs incorrectly, waste healing using it too early or too late, they won't react to flanking or being flat-footed correctly etc. RTwP is designed (at least in theory) to be more action oriented and a faster type of gameplay, but in the end it forces you to micro almost everything reducing to encounter speed to a slog, thus kinda defeating the purpose of the entire exercise.

Old IE games had this problem, Dragon Age had this problem. PoE had this problem, Kingmaker had this problem (despite offering a large array of options for the AI behaviours).

And it's not even the issue of "Get Gud Fagget" because to play at maximum efficiency you will have to micro, so will have abuse the pause button, so you will impact the speed of the game. It's such a built-in issue, that I almost don't like calling it a problem. It's more of a feature really.

TB system is slower by design yes, but does not have this schizophrenic meltdown when it comes to gameplay speed as RTwP have.
In short RTwP is flawed by design while TB is not. It comes down to personal taste really if a person likes TB or not, but it doesn't have to face the same self-imposed challenges like RTwP does. And some people are just not looking into a game with a system where you shoot yourself in the foot at the very start of the race.

How is that a flaw? I have never played rtwp with full on active ai,especially on casters. The most i let them attack the closest and let fighters use their skills while i command the casters. The two systems are made to be played differently. I very rarely pause,even on harder fights and difficulty,most of the time i just let them auto attack and cast offensive spells. The things you dislike about the system is what it makes it good for me mate,i do like the faster pasted action and higher demand of situation/terrain perception and the complexity of the combat. In reality you could end up a boss fight in rtwp before you could end up your first round in tb fighting trash encounter. I believe rtwp to be more complex and combat diverse. While the TB system is becoming stale,you do know what you could do and what the ai will do,it is more of a minor puzzle to be honest. While in rtwp you could end up in situation because of how mobile the battle is. Some times your enemy might decide to pull back and your heroes ending up surrounded or having the wrong fighter in the place of the tank,or you could kill the right enemy at good time and end up running behind enemy lines with your rogue and going for that backstab. RTwP is superior in the tactical aspect hands down,also it demands more skills from the player,while TB needs you to just know the effects of the skills and not to be a retard.




In the end liking one system over the other is not the problem,the problem is trying impose your taste on to other people.

In addition to this there is also the simultaneous "turn" resolution.

I like TB and RtwP, they both have their strengths and weaknesses and while I think it's pretty bad brand management to make a BG3 turn based I don't really care as long as its good TB. The issue for me is that I have little faith in Larian providing this and everything else looks like a complete Trainwreck.

Best case scenario, for me, given the limited information we currently have is that they make a relatively faithful implementation of 5e and provide good mod tools/license their engine to more competent developers.

They should have done as owlcat,make a core of rtwp and add tb as an option.

Nah, if they aren't even able to implement good TB why would they be able to make a game that is balanced for two game modes at the same time?

Because they were able to make a passable rtwp before that.

 

[Niklasgunner]

Honestly, people that literally only wanted a carbon copy of BG2s combat system, which aged like milk, are stuck in the past and have shit opinions on videogames and game design. Literally the most static, unengaging, boring shit I have ever played. :D

 

[karoliner]

Every single individual who prefers RTwP must be put in front of a firing squad.

 

[fantadomat]

It's a personal story but it does ultimately boil down to whether or not the Player accepts or rejects the mantle of God of Murder. Im simply trying to say that DnD at that level becomes a mess to manage so I'm fine with things going back to lvl 1.

Oh i agree,epic levels are boring shit,the fun is at lower levels.

 

[Fedora Master]

I come into the thread hoping to read about the actual presentation and instead get endless Rtwp sperging.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

The gyths riding the dragons lmao. What the fuck.

Githyanki have a pact with a group of red dragons (see ADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS MONSTER MANUAL - Dragon, ed) which, in return for shelter, food and treasure, assist the githyanki when on the Prime Material Plane by acting as steeds. The dragons transport 4-6 and 1-5 githyanki each according to sizelage (above sub-adult); thus a small young adult dragon could transport 5 githyanki (4 for size, 1 for age), an average-sized old dragon could transport 8 (5 for size, 3 for age) and a huge ancient dragon could transport 11 (6 for size, 5 for age). These red dragons will obey only githyanki when the latter are on the Prime Material Plane.
- Fiend Folio, 1981

love the fiend folio

 

[deuxhero]

Honestly, people that literally only wanted a carbon copy of BG2s combat system, which aged like milk, are stuck in the past and have shit opinions on videogames and game design. Literally the most static, unengaging, boring shit I have ever played. :D

Yogurt is much better than BG's combat.

 

[Tytus]

Honestly, people that literally only wanted a carbon copy of BG2s combat system, which aged like milk, are stuck in the past and have shit opinions on videogames and game design. Literally the most static, unengaging, boring shit I have ever played. :D

Yogurt is much better than BG's combat.

Which one? Yogurt is a very broad term, there are various kinds of yogurt.

This one is the best though:

Spoiler