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Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 hate thread

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,966
Location
Russia
well theoretically I should be angry for

larian just pushing their dos3 by cashing in on old gaem
wizards cashing in on bg which they always kinda wanted to disown but came to their senses after many years
the fact that it may mean the end of pre rendered tech for these sort of games as both this and pathfinder are 3d

but I really don't feel anything. Because cashing in on old things has been the rage for long time, with poe and numa and so on. as Lyric Suite pointed out, the old style of D&D was a bit different from current style of it, in spirit so to speak, which I believe affected games like bg1 or iwd1 a lot. this one might turn ok gaem or not, but the setting as presented doesn't appeal to me. "bg 3" logo with tentacles/intro/some art feel like BG, but game doesn't.

I guess I wanted for them to at least try capture the mythic of it, the "mythical bg" so to speak - the awkward wizord sprite spamming pink missiles in the night and then being impaled by your spikey bro, forest with 18/00 bears which seemed so big and beginning of the dangerous road of a pair of lvl 1 noobs armed with 1 gp daggers, but of course that's foolish and probably nostalgia driven naivete. I guess 0.00001% of that naive boy in me does feel 0.00000000001% sadness deep deep inside for his old lost toy.

but like, whatever. hail pathfinder.
 
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User0001

Savant
Joined
Jun 9, 2018
Messages
530
Location
Nangilima
TLDR: balanced opinion

These developers need to respect the culture behind the series.

No, they don't.
As an independent developing studio entity using/buying a brand and license (Baldurs Gate and DnD 5e), the only thing Larian need to respect is the guidelines they have been given or mediated with/by the giver, Wizards of the Coast. Your anger should be directed at WotC for letting Larian Studious do what you do not like, for it is WotC that has the power over the franchise, not Larian. If WotC would've been interested in making a "faithful" Baldurs Gate sequel, there probably have been/are a handful of developers that could've done it in these past twenty years.
The real question WotC has been asking itself is, what the future of table-top Dungeons and Dragons would have profited off of it? The long answer is a whole discussion in and of itself, and the short answer is that Larian is the perfect fit for what WoTC/DnD needs right now.

Making a reskin using the name is disrespectful to the fans,

No, AND yes:

As stated above, it's about a perfect fit. Larian has previous games with commercial success that uses an engine perfect for a 5e DnD implementation. As shown in the demo, it is a tremendous potential for true DnD exploration and combat. An absolute win-win situation for WotC. License-royalty to WotC, easy transition to pen and paper purchases due to easy TB understanding from BG3, exponential exposure if the game is as successful as Larians' previous games. PERFECT. FIT.

No business nor consumer is in all seriousness a loser in this incline situation, because every hater here (yes, you) will definitely be a closet day one purchaser (oh, yes you will). This is the quintessential truth.


But also the bad:
I honestly do agree that some ambient aspects are too close to previous Larian games. Music in the demo felt like they told their music contractor to do exactly what they've done in previous DOS-games and just "sprinkle" some of the original BG-series tunes into it. The obvious copy-paste choir singing from DOS2 music is fuuuuucking BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD!
The over-usage of elevation gameplay isn't fun if it is presented in too many combat situations, as it was definitely a problem in DOS2, where half of the encounters were about jumping around and shooting conveniently placed ingredient-barrels (booooring).
Yes, the dialogue is bland from what has been shown, but as long as it's not in the way, I honestly don't give a shit. No IE game had a single dialogue line that I care to remember.


Despite this, the combat-technicalities and the character-build game-interaction, as demonstrated by DOS2 and as far back as divine divinity, will make it a fucking amazing game, where only retards (you, Ontopoly) will disagree about with this.


, to the industry it inspired, and to the original developers who put their hard work and passion into it

What the fuck did it inspire? It inspired ambiance! BG I & II'S greatest achievement: Pretty backgrounds (IWD1 was #1), okay music (IWD was #1), and all IE-games had subpar strategic combat-system. RTwP was always only seed to something greater, but never the endstation to progress. The point of RTwP was to simulate something that was missing in TB, perfectly explained by these two:

One thing Larian could've done differently to troll the entire RPG audience is go with RTT system (Real Time Turns).

Basically you queue up your moves during your turn, and the enemy does the same, then you have like 5-6 second turn where everybody is moving at the same time executing commands and you as a player have no control over it. Then it's back to issuing commands again. It has both the franticness and awesome explosions of RTwP and meticulousness of a TB system. And if pretty much hated by everyone. I only saw some JRPGs trying to implement it and it's a majestic chaos. It's a shame they didn't go this route. The butthurt would be glorious and everybody would remember BG3 for years and years :P
I unironically would like to play that. Believe it or not, that's how original D&D (up to AD&D 2nd Edition) was supposed to be played. People who believe Old Skool D&D is turn-based as seen in videogames are wrong. D&D comes from wargaming, where the players announce what the units will do, then the referee decides the order and how things will play out. Videogame turns were an inversion of a rule system that yet (almost) nobody has adapted to a videogame: actions are declared first, then initiative is resolved but actions are supposed to be happening all at the same time; character don't take turns waiting for each other, that's just silly and makes no sense. But the videogame style has become so popular, that now nobody uses the original one. Back then, some initiative systems were simple (roll 1d6 for team initiative and a fixed order for different types of actions: ranged weapons > melee > movement > spells) but some were quite complex, like AD&D 2nd edition which, with individual initiative and all optional rules (weapon and spell speeds) could feel like BG with spell interruptions and two archers simultaneously killing one another. What it means is that you knew what your character wanted to do, but you were never 100% sure in what order things would happen.

What is being talked about ↑here↑ is what my personal longing was for. It was my pathetic inner hope what possibly could have been a next step. In lack of this, a TB system will, without question, be a superior crpg experience. There's a serious need for a discussion thread about this tho ↑ (phase-combat).

Swen taking the name and throwing everything else away is like saying "Sure, BG series was great and we love it, but also everything in it sucks and I can make it way better. Let's throw all this stuff away."

Infinite-engine combat sucked. IE ambiance was good. Reusing name is for WotC to sell DnD5e (and you're retarded for giving a shit). Combat will now be better. The dialogue will be at least as bad as BG, so why give a shit? Butthurt opinions are .. MEH...





I did what i did because it's the right thing to do.

The obvious answer is drama gets attention. However, it is more than that. Drama causes the pituitary gland and hypothalamus to secrete endorphins, which are the pain-suppressing and pleasure-inducing compounds, which heroin and other opiates mimic.[32-40] Hence, drama eases the anxiety of wanting more attention than you are getting. Naturally, since drama uses the same mechanisms in the brain as opiates, people can easily become addicted to drama.[41-45] Like any addiction, you build up a tolerance that continuously requires more to get the same neurochemical effect. [46-49] In the case of drama, then means you need more and more crises to get the same thrill.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...cessive-attention-seeking-and-drama-addiction



I do like the monster you've become in over a week, Ontopoly. I'm pointing this out as a fellow human being, as I feel coupling with you. Me sperg rating every post of you as retarded will continue, but know that I do it out of self-hatred. Your meltdown is what everyone is staring down at from the edge.
:love:

Love
your retard rater
 
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Ontopoly

Disco Hitler
Joined
Jan 28, 2020
Messages
2,993
Location
Fairy land
No, they don't.
As an independent developing studio entity using/buying a brand and license (Baldurs Gate and DnD 5e), the only thing Larian need to respect is the guidelines they have been given or mediated with/by the giver, Wizards of the Coast. Your anger should be directed at WotC for letting Larian Studious do what you do not like, for it is WotC that has the power over the franchise, not Larian. If WotC would've been interested in making a "faithful" Baldurs Gate sequel, there probably have been/are a handful of developers that could've done it in these past twenty years.
The real question WotC has been asking itself is, what the future of table-top Dungeons and Dragons would have profited off of it? The long answer is a whole discussion in and of itself, and the short answer is that Larian is the perfect fit for what WoTC/DnD needs right now.
I actually agree with you on this. As in I think we should also include wotc in our shit list. Larian and wotc both deserve to be called cunts.

No business nor consumer is in all seriousness a loser in this incline situation, because every hater here (yes, you) will definitely be a closet day one purchaser (oh, yes you will). This is the quintessential truth.

I will not be buying this game under any circumstances but I'm sure a bunch of the people shit talking the game will. I have integrity unlike Larian and wotc, those cunts.

The obvious answer is drama gets attention. However, it is more than that. Drama causes the pituitary gland and hypothalamus to secrete endorphins, which are the pain-suppressing and pleasure-inducing compounds, which heroin and other opiates mimic.[32-40] Hence, drama eases the anxiety of wanting more attention than you are getting. Naturally, since drama uses the same mechanisms in the brain as opiates, people can easily become addicted to drama.[41-45] Like any addiction, you build up a tolerance that continuously requires more to get the same neurochemical effect. [46-49] In the case of drama, then means you need more and more crises to get the same thrill.

Retards diagnosing retards.

I do like the monster you've become in over a week, Ontopoly. I'm pointing this out as a fellow human being, as I feel coupling with you. Me sperg rating every post of you as retarded will continue, but know that I do it out of self-hatred. Your meltdown is what everyone is staring down at from the edge.

One person's freedom fighter is another person's terrorist. I'm sure at the end of the day we can hopefully agree that Larian is decline in the Grand scheme of things. Even a retard like you who makes empty threats to block people can recognize that.

Love
your retard rater

Love,
Your unwilling victim.
I'll always remember you as the dumb fuck that got mad that I debated him in a rtwp vs TB discussion.
 

Ontopoly

Disco Hitler
Joined
Jan 28, 2020
Messages
2,993
Location
Fairy land
Infinite-engine combat sucked.

:npc:

It was good enough to inspire the gameplay of a series, a spin off ice wind Dale 1 and 2, never winter nights 1 and 2, pillars of eternity 1 and 2, Pathfinder 1 and 2 tyranny, Dragon age 1, 2, and 3, black geyser ...
I constantly see people on the forums praise it for great mage vs mage battles and other memorable encounters. It's still talked about and having games made like it 20 years after but some randos that can't handle more than 2 things moving at once think they know what's good.
 

Cholo

Arcane
Joined
Apr 26, 2011
Messages
766
Location
Val Verde
If anything holds this game back it will be the poorly designed D&D combat. Larian should have just thrown out their garbage system in lieu of their proven formula. DOS2 managed to have level 1 spells that were viable even in late game combat. D&D has either useless spells like magic missile or moronic high level stuff like time stop with nothing in between. Swen probably dropped 20 IQ points (he is still MENSA material however) just by reading the D&D ruleset.
 

Ontopoly

Disco Hitler
Joined
Jan 28, 2020
Messages
2,993
Location
Fairy land
If anything holds this game back it will be the poorly designed D&D combat. Larian should have just thrown out their garbage system in lieu of their proven formula. DOS2 managed to have level 1 spells that were viable even in late game combat. D&D has either useless spells like magic missile or moronic high level stuff like time stop with nothing in between. Swen probably dropped 20 IQ points (he is still MENSA material however) just by reading the D&D ruleset.
This is the type of person who says stupid things like " I actually really liked the armor system" This is why we need this hate thread. To remind ourselves what's at risk.
 

Elex

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Messages
2,043
It was good enough to inspire the gameplay of a series, a spin off ice wind Dale 1 and 2, never winter nights 1 and 2, pillars of eternity 1 and 2, Pathfinder 1 and 2 tyranny, Dragon age 1, 2, and 3, black geyser ...
I constantly see people on the forums praise it for great mage vs mage battles and other memorable encounters. It's still talked about and having games made like it 20 years after but some randos that can't handle more than 2 things moving at once think they know what's good.
How dragon age 2/3 are a positive thing?
 

Elex

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 17, 2017
Messages
2,043
If anything holds this game back it will be the poorly designed D&D combat. Larian should have just thrown out their garbage system in lieu of their proven formula. DOS2 managed to have level 1 spells that were viable even in late game combat. D&D has either useless spells like magic missile or moronic high level stuff like time stop with nothing in between. Swen probably dropped 20 IQ points (he is still MENSA material however) just by reading the D&D ruleset.
Useless lvl 1 spells? You are the one that have no idea how D&D rules works.
 

Valky

Arcane
Manlet
Joined
Aug 22, 2016
Messages
2,418
Location
Trapped in a bioform
What's this "origin story" shit vs making your own characters? Is it just a premade character with special game interactions that you don't get if you make your own?
 

Bruma Hobo

Lurker
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
Messages
2,412
Cash grab for nostalgia fags
Are you talking about Pillars of Eternity or Kingmaker? Because Baldur's Gate 3 does not qualify at all (otherwise it would be yet another boring RTwP fest with nostalgic pixel art).

WotC is trying to kickstart a series of 5E turn-based CRPGs, starting with the biggest brand name available, and hiring the studio known for making successful modern and relatively complex turn-based games (even if some of us disagree with some of their design philosophies), prioritizing gameplay over storyfaggotry and romances. And you're trying to boycott that, because of a meaningless brand name.

BGtards are retarded.
 

Cholo

Arcane
Joined
Apr 26, 2011
Messages
766
Location
Val Verde
The silver lining with this news, and I think even rtwptards will have to acknowledge this, is that finally the forgotten realms setting is getting actual talented writers as opposed to the boring stuff we've been force-fed in the past. Larian manages to write actually memorable characters, and not just cheap tropes or hackney inversions.
 

Ontopoly

Disco Hitler
Joined
Jan 28, 2020
Messages
2,993
Location
Fairy land
It was good enough to inspire the gameplay of a series, a spin off ice wind Dale 1 and 2, never winter nights 1 and 2, pillars of eternity 1 and 2, Pathfinder 1 and 2 tyranny, Dragon age 1, 2, and 3, black geyser ...
I constantly see people on the forums praise it for great mage vs mage battles and other memorable encounters. It's still talked about and having games made like it 20 years after but some randos that can't handle more than 2 things moving at once think they know what's good.
How dragon age 2/3 are a positive thing?
They don't have to be good. The fact that BG inspired them at all is my point.
What's this "origin story" shit vs making your own characters? Is it just a premade character with special game interactions that you don't get if you make your own?

Yes. And if you don't play one of the premade characters you lose a lot of reactivity. You see all that vampire reactivity in the showcase they did, it's only because it's a premade character. Don't expect as much reactivity unless your character is designed with something in common with one of the premades. In DOS2 I wouldn't recommend anyone play any character other than a premade. That's the extent they take it to. You're going to miss out on a lot if you make your own character if it's done anything like their old game.
 

Ontopoly

Disco Hitler
Joined
Jan 28, 2020
Messages
2,993
Location
Fairy land
What's this "origin story" shit vs making your own characters? Is it just a premade character with special game interactions that you don't get if you make your own?
Pretty much. This system already existed in the prequel (D:OS 2).

So wait, if i make my own character i lose out on bits of the game?

WTF is this shit?

It's Larian. Surprise!

Also in DOS2 the companions you don't bring with you die so when you later go on to do the quest tied to their character they aren't there so you miss out on a lot of depth. You can't mix and match your team later on like in other games. I honestly enjoyed the game but things like origin characters and the armor system brought it down so much.

Also what pissed me off the most is the ending. My character fought his way through to save the world from the void monsters then I fight some randos and the game ends. The game then proceeds to describe my character fighting the actual void leader in a slide show. I wanted to fight him myself, not have you explain to me how I go on to fight him.

You also get an old man voice acting the sex scenes descriptions to you. Literally what I always wanted...
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
56,543
Yeah i've seen the sex scenes videos on youtube.

So fixed main characters, fixed party members. Just wonderful. But hey, muh turn based amirite?
 

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