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The PS5 and Xbox 2 thread - it's happening

sullynathan

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Backwards Compatibility is in.

https://blog.us.playstation.com/202...ls-of-playstation-5-hardware-technical-specs/


"UPDATE: A quick update on backward compatibility – With all of the amazing games in PS4’s catalog, we’ve devoted significant efforts to enable our fans to play their favorites on PS5. We believe that the overwhelming majority of the 4,000+ PS4 titles will be playable on PS5.


We’re expecting backward compatible titles will run at a boosted frequency on PS5 so that they can benefit from higher or more stable frame rates and potentially higher resolutions. We’re currently evaluating games on a title-by-title basis to spot any issues that need adjustment from the original software developers.


In his presentation, Mark Cerny provided a snapshot into the Top 100 most-played PS4 titles, demonstrating how well our backward compatibility efforts are going. We have already tested hundreds of titles and are preparing to test thousands more as we move toward launch. We will provide updates on backward compatibility, along with much more PS5 news, in the months ahead. Stay tuned!"
 

DalekFlay

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Backwards Compatibility is in.

Not a console gamer so don't care, but... there's a big difference between the hardware compatibility MS is doing for everything versus whatever this is from Sony. Even if they get a "majority" running, that doesn't mean they'll run well.
 

sullynathan

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Backwards Compatibility is in.

Not a console gamer so don't care, but... there's a big difference between the hardware compatibility MS is doing for everything versus whatever this is from Sony. Even if they get a "majority" running, that doesn't mean they'll run well.
I'm basing this off what MS did with the Xbox 360 to Xbox One, with their software emulation thing and every game ran better on the latter platform. If Sony is going that route, things will be fine especially since a lot of later gen PS4 titles run with Dynamic resolution and uncapped framerates.

God of War and Bloodborne would easily benefit from this.
 

DalekFlay

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I'm basing this off what MS did with the Xbox 360 to Xbox One, with their software emulation thing and every game ran better on the latter platform. If Sony is going that route, things will be fine especially since a lot of later gen PS4 titles run with Dynamic resolution and uncapped framerates.

Okay. I didn't know it worked on everything and improved everything from the 360. If MS has emulation that nailed down, then I guess Sony could too. Though I bet a lot of games are designed around 30fps in weird ways and can't run higher without a lot of work. We run into that on PC pretty often with 60fps caps and whatnot.
 

Gerrard

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It's much weaker than the Xbox Series X but it has a good SSD.

Which means we will get multiplatform titles that will both use the crappy SSD and the disappointing PS5 specs.
Actually, it means we will get games with as bad resource management as Path of Exile, that will be completely unplayable on mechanical hard drives, and will require an SSD to just achieve the performance a well made game would on an HDD.
 

sullynathan

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I'm basing this off what MS did with the Xbox 360 to Xbox One, with their software emulation thing and every game ran better on the latter platform. If Sony is going that route, things will be fine especially since a lot of later gen PS4 titles run with Dynamic resolution and uncapped framerates.

Okay. I didn't know it worked on everything and improved everything from the 360. If MS has emulation that nailed down, then I guess Sony could too. Though I bet a lot of games are designed around 30fps in weird ways and can't run higher without a lot of work. We run into that on PC pretty often with 60fps caps and whatnot.
Microsoft got about 1/4th of every 360 game released before they stopped their BC program, but they all got standardized improvements around like higher resolution than what the game had at release, locked or higher framerate, and no screen tearing.

It took them a few years to get all of these, but I'm guessing this is what Sony is trying to do for those first 100 most played titles first and then work on as many as they can. Out the box, I'm already expecting the average PS4 title to play better than it did on a PS4 Pro.
 

DalekFlay

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Microsoft got about 1/4th of every 360 game released before they stopped their BC program, but they all got standardized improvements around like higher resolution than what the game had at release, locked or higher framerate, and no screen tearing.

It took them a few years to get all of these, but I'm guessing this is what Sony is trying to do for those first 100 most played titles first and then work on as many as they can. Out the box, I'm already expecting the average PS4 title to play better than it did on a PS4 Pro.

Okay, but I would still say MS offering it for every game, hardware based, is better... yes? If MS only ever did 1/4th of 360 games, why would anyone assume Sony would do them all?

Again I'm a PC guy, I don't have a dog in this fight, but it seems like MS won that round.
 

sullynathan

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Microsoft got about 1/4th of every 360 game released before they stopped their BC program, but they all got standardized improvements around like higher resolution than what the game had at release, locked or higher framerate, and no screen tearing.

It took them a few years to get all of these, but I'm guessing this is what Sony is trying to do for those first 100 most played titles first and then work on as many as they can. Out the box, I'm already expecting the average PS4 title to play better than it did on a PS4 Pro.

Okay, but I would still say MS offering it for every game, hardware based, is better... yes? If MS only ever did 1/4th of 360 games, why would anyone assume Sony would do them all?

Again I'm a PC guy, I don't have a dog in this fight, but it seems like MS won that round.
MS is better, I was just expanding on what Sony might be doing. MS has just showed far more than Sony so I can only be speculative on the latter.
 

L'ennui

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Not sure why people get so excited about backward compatibility on XSX. It's basically just a PC running DX12 and Windows 10. Big deal.
Because buying a new console used to mean having to start a new game library from scratch. No longer. I can keep playing that horrendous Perfect Dark sequel through pandemic after pandemic and there's nothing you can do to stop me.
 

DalekFlay

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Not sure why people get so excited about backward compatibility on XSX. It's basically just a PC running DX12 and Windows 10. Big deal.

Many consoles have not had it, so it makes sense they would be happy about it, no? I can't imagine not being able to play old PC games on a modern OS, it's one of the core aspects of PC gaming.
 

Rahdulan

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Not sure why people get so excited about backward compatibility on XSX. It's basically just a PC running DX12 and Windows 10. Big deal.

I'm more interested in why these backwards compatible games running on XBone haven't been ported to PC yet. Give me Lost Odyssey, goddammit.
 

SlamDunk

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PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X are both really powerful shoeboxes.

I'm not a console gamer but I can't wait to see the games from a technical point of view, especially the Sony first party games.

Open world, day night cycles, weather are p broke now. Dynamic skydome occlusion instead of SSAO will be true to life and expectedly the new norm after years of UE4 (&mimic's) static sky horrors.

Well atlest the new generation of generic and forgettable games will look slightly more prettier.
Oh, don't I know it. I've been following with frustration, disgust and anger the seeping of consolitis into PC gaming world, which started to happen ages ago. Now, the cancer of consolitis has spread into most of the PC world. But still - although I don't care about console games, except for Fumito Ueda's work (ICO, Shadow of the Colossus, The Last Guardian) - I can't wait to see what new tech these upcoming shoeboxes bring for games.
 

DalekFlay

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I'm more interested in why these backwards compatible games running on XBone haven't been ported to PC yet. Give me Lost Odyssey, goddammit.

Now that MS is interested in PC gaming again there's a lot of very simple things they could do for our audience, but they seem to move at the speed of molasses. I remember an interview with Phil Spencer on Giant Bomb at last year's E3 where he talked about supporting the PC and putting Halo and Gears 5 on Steam. The interviewer asked him about their older games coming to Steam or porting stuff like Gears 2 and 3 and Spencer was like "yeah we're looking at that, but it takes a lot of time and effort." A year later and still nothing. They're a massive corporation and I bet this kind of shit has to go through an abyss of red tape and meetings before it can happen. I wouldn't expect it to ever come to pass.
 

DalekFlay

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Holy shit, if you run at a much lower resolution and then process the shit out of the image to make it look artificially sharper it will run better? Who knew? Of course, modern gaming visuals have been an over-processed nightmare ever since MSAA went the way of the dodo, so it is what it is. Can't wait for games that force DLSS, like some games force TAA now.
 

DalekFlay

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I don't care about objectively worse graphics when it looks the same to me. That's the whole point of Deep learning upscaling.

Not to beat a dead horse until it's pulp, but...

Control released their DLSS 2.0 patch today and I checked it out. I didn't want to poison my SSD with Wolfenstein: Youngblood again, but Control was alright. Anyway... DLSS 2.0 looks how I thought the pics did, which is much more processed. It's obviously got a heavy smoothed and sharpened look to it, like some aggressive TAA does. I'm not really knocking this... people are used to sharpening because of TAA and reshade lately, and I don't think it looks much worse than the smoothing and sharpening in heavily TAA'd games like Red Dead 2 and Doom Eternal. Also some people just like a more processed look, I see that on my movie forums a lot where a studio will smooth or sharpen an old film to make it look more modern and digital and some people love it, some hate it. It's all in the eye of the beholder. Maybe it's because of my old school film fandom that I hate it so much, as I'm conditioned to dislike that processed look.

So I get why you'd be enthused, and prefer it to turning settings down. However seeing no difference? I can't understand that. In Control you can flick back and forth instantly and the DLSS 2.0 presentation definitely looks muuuuuuuch different from native resolution. Whether you like it or not, or like it enough to enjoy the added frames, is subjective of course. Looking the exact same? It objectively does not.
 

Markman

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Nvidias 20x series can suck a dick.
Can we plz haz 700 bucks so you can play at 1080p and barely hit 60 in games with ray traycing on? Gtfo.
See ya next gen, greedy faggots.

If these "consoles" can do that and keep a stable 60 at less cost than 2080 alone its gonna take Nvidia like 3 years to catch up. DOA my ass.
 

DalekFlay

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If these "consoles" can do that and keep a stable 60 at less cost than 2080 alone its gonna take Nvidia like 3 years to catch up. DOA my ass.

They're going to settle for 30fps again and use reconstruction techniques to mimic higher resolutions again, because people like Morgoth above can't tell the difference. There's no way they're going to beat a 2080ti in performance, let alone whatever nVidia and AMD release in the next year.
 

Markman

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If these "consoles" can do that and keep a stable 60 at less cost than 2080 alone its gonna take Nvidia like 3 years to catch up. DOA my ass.

They're going to settle for 30fps again and use reconstruction techniques to mimic higher resolutions again, because people like Morgoth above can't tell the difference. There's no way they're going to beat a 2080ti in performance, let alone whatever nVidia and AMD release in the next year.
They dont have to beat it, 1080/60 with raytracing on should be doable.
Something that overpriced 2080 struggles with.

We'll see when Control and other first party shit comes out on Series X and PS5.
 

Wirdschowerdn

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If these "consoles" can do that and keep a stable 60 at less cost than 2080 alone its gonna take Nvidia like 3 years to catch up. DOA my ass.

They're going to settle for 30fps again and use reconstruction techniques to mimic higher resolutions again, because people like Morgoth above can't tell the difference.

Don't be so scathing, most people can't give a shit playing 1440p or 4K on a TV from a couple of meters away. Some do. Great for you Pixel Nazis.

I, for one, welcome the arrival of DLSS 2.0 for PC gamers. More performance for the subjectively same picture.
 

DalekFlay

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They dont have to beat it, 1080/60 with raytracing on should be doable.
Something that overpriced 2080 struggles with.

Doable 1080p60 on a year old game isn't impressive, that's the point. Especially when 4k is all over their marketing. There's gonna be a sacrifice somewhere, either in resolution, framerate or ray tracing effects.
 

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