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Incline Remnants of the Precursors - Merry Christmas, bitches

TigerKnee

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https://www.reddit.com/r/rotp/comments/f2jn2w/gameplay_differences_between_rotp_and_moo_v13/

I found this thread and I'm confused because I always thought that this project was just supposed to be recreating the original game behaviour except with a more user friendly UI (and of course new art because of copyrights)

I guess it's more interesting this way since I could just play the original MOO1 still.
 

RayF

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The public beta is almost here! At midnight Saturday, the clock will toll Easter and the open beta for Remnants of the Precursors will become available.

All of the shit you guys fling at indie developers who over-promise and under-deliver will have to be aimed at someone else besides me. Remnants of the Precursors is feature complete, very playable, and fun. The UI enhancements over the standard space 4X fare will be very obvious after moderate play. You will start wondering why the fuck big-time studios can't make UIs that work as well for this genre.

There are VOD streams on twitch.tv/explorminate of the pre-beta version, but by Easter everyone is getting the goods FOR FREE. And for all of your game developer wannabes, the source code is going to be made public.

It's a beta... there is still additional artwork in progress, and the writer has more writing to do. Plus the UI designer keeps wanting me to tweak shit so that will be happening as well. I will, of course, be fixing any reported bugs and keep working on the AI more until I taste powergamer tears. When the writer is done with his stuff, then we have over a dozen foreign language translators ready to make the game playable for everyone too fucking lazy to speak American.

But the game is feature-complete and fully playable. IN FOUR DAYS.

Happy Easter, bitches.
 

TigerKnee

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All of the shit you guys fling at indie developers who over-promise and under-deliver will have to be aimed at someone else besides me.
Will you use your newfound goodwill to start a neverending Patreon to develop a porn version of Master of Orion?
 

Endemic

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Jul 16, 2012
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Congratulations Ray. I haven't played the game much since alpha v5, so I'm looking forward to seeing the improvements you've made.
 

RayF

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Congratulations Ray. I haven't played the game much since alpha v5, so I'm looking forward to seeing the improvements you've made.

Space Monsters, more diplomacy options and general polish. The game was almost feature-complete in Alpha 5.

Did I mention space monsters? Yeah, they are tuned to a "fuck this game" level.
 

Endemic

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Space Monsters, more diplomacy options and general polish. The game was almost feature-complete in Alpha 5.

Did I mention space monsters? Yeah, they are tuned to a "fuck this game" level.

I say v5, but the bulk of my playtime was before tactical combat was even finished. I take it the space monsters move around rather than just sit in one system?
 

RayF

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In MOO2, there were space monsters guarding systems.

In MOO1, there were two random events.. the Space Amoeba and the Space Crystal. The only problem with them is that you could see them on a map, they moved slowly so you could figure out where to mass a fleet, and then they fight like ships so you defeated them easily.

In ROTP, those two monsters are tuned to the "Impossible" difficulty of MOO1 (so still technically "canon") but are no longer trackable on the main map. About 2 turns before they arrive to a planet, you get a GNN notice to give you time to scramble your fleet there. Then you find out that these things are monsters, not ships, so you have to figure out a strategy to beat them without losing half your fleet.

Or you could just evacuate and re-colonized your wasted planets and wait for the Amoeba/Crystal to wander into another race's empire. That works, too.
 

Endemic

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In MOO2, there were space monsters guarding systems.

Space monsters could also attack or blockade your systems in random events (with one of them also being able to spawn offspring), although it was rather uncommon. I recall that the dragon could be bribed to go elsewhere.

In ROTP, those two monsters are tuned to the "Impossible" difficulty of MOO1 (so still technically "canon") but are no longer trackable on the main map. About 2 turns before they arrive to a planet, you get a GNN notice to give you time to scramble your fleet there. Then you find out that these things are monsters, not ships, so you have to figure out a strategy to beat them without losing half your fleet.

Or you could just evacuate and re-colonized your wasted planets and wait for the Amoeba/Crystal to wander into another race's empire. That works, too.

Interesting... guess I'll see what happens in-game. Thanks for the explanation.
 

Infinitum

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Well, I'll be. Spent a few hours growing the glorious human empire; good stuff! Will you keep tinkering with the formula from here on out or move on to ever greater endeavors?
 

RayF

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Well, I'll be. Spent a few hours growing the glorious human empire; good stuff! Will you keep tinkering with the formula from here on out or move on to ever greater endeavors?

eventually, but this game needs to be finished first
 

Infinitum

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If you're still willing to fuck with improve the UI, may I suggest displaying treasury reserves on the main UI and having a "allocate reserves" slider next to the spending allocation sliders? Having to select a planet and then go to the colonies tab is clunky and unintuitive for newer players, and displaying it allong the other sliders would make it easier/faster to gauge the effect on current construction.

EDIT: Also tooltip warnings about idle fleets at end of turn wouldn't go amiss.

EDIT: Also, are there any keyboard shortcut for cycling between fleets/planets? Can't seem to find ingame documentation about the controls.

EDIT: Also when designing ships, weapons with quantity 0 remains on the finalized design. Could be replaced by "none" to reduce visual clutter.

EDIT: Also showing the tech tree ingame. Shouldn't have to rely on outside sources to see where stuff is. The randomized availability should still be hidden until one has aquired the previous tier, naturally.

EDIT: Also, having an option to set the default slider allocation to try and maintain an 1/X ratio of population/factories would cut down on micro some. Optimal play is optimal play etc (unless awaiting extra colonists and other specific situations).

EDIT: Also, LOCKING SLIDERS. Just tried allocating 1 rp to each cathegory to check my starting techs. Fuck that. Come thinking of it, that is such an obvious exploit that starting techs should probably just be visible outright.

EDIT: Also, having the diplomatic option to tell other peoples scouts to fuck off. Why do they even hover around my colonies to begin with?

EDIT: Also, instead of the "Clean" message from the eco slider, is there a reason it doesn't show curren pop growth outright? Saves having to hover the bar after each nudge.
 
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RayF

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If you're still willing to fuck with improve the UI, may I suggest displaying treasury reserves on the main UI and having a "allocate reserves" slider next to the spending allocation sliders? Having to select a planet and then go to the colonies tab is clunky and unintuitive for newer players, and displaying it allong the other sliders would make it easier/faster to gauge the effect on current construction.

We are considering ways to make reserve allocation available on the main screen. It was originally on the Planets tab of MOO1 and the ROTP implementation was made less clunky, but it's currently on that screen. Also, newer players are not using the reserve system.

EDIT: Also tooltip warnings about idle fleets at end of turn wouldn't go amiss.

Define an "idle fleet" because you are potentially talking about dozens of warnings each turn by the midgame

EDIT: Also, are there any keyboard shortcut for cycling between fleets/planets? Can't seem to find ingame documentation about the controls.

The original MOO1 had function keys implemented to cycle between systems and fleets on the main map. Those are in ROTP but off the top of my head I can't remember which ones do what. In addition, if you hover over the graphical area for the system display (where the name and planet graphic are at), then you can mousewheel through all of the systems for that planet's empire. Super convenient.

EDIT: Also when designing ships, weapons with quantity 0 remains on the finalized design. Could be replaced by "none" to reduce visual clutter.

I agree. Good suggestion.

EDIT: Also showing the tech tree ingame. Shouldn't have to rely on outside sources to see where stuff is. The randomized availability should still be hidden until one has aquired the previous tier, naturally.

The tech tree of known techs is on the tech screen. If you want to see what is possibly coming, you're going to have to get that outside of the game because muh immersion.

EDIT: Also, having an option to set the default slider allocation to try and maintain an 1/X ratio of population/factories would cut down on micro some. Optimal play is optimal play etc (unless awaiting extra colonists and other specific situations).

Not as easy to implement as you think, but basically you are asking the game to constantly move sliders around for you for optimal allocation of resources... automating min/max micro for you. I'm not into automating stuff for players. However, some people are into that. There's a Governor mod that someone makes for the game; I'd recommend using that.

EDIT: Also, LOCKING SLIDERS. Just tried allocating 1 rp to each cathegory to check my starting techs. Fuck that. Come thinking of it, that is such an obvious exploit that starting techs should probably just be visible outright.

All spending and tech sliders can be locked. Just click on the name to lock or unlock them. I wouldn't call spending an RP in a category to open up your first tier an exploit. Just because something is easy doesn't mean it should be tree. Opening up that first tier is currently fraught with decisions that would go away if you just revealed them at the beginning because you have to choose that first tech to research without the luxury of going back to the map.

EDIT: Also, having the diplomatic option to tell other peoples scouts to fuck off. Why do they even hover around my colonies to begin with?

There is a way to tell them to fuck off. Build a fighter ship.

EDIT: Also, instead of the "Clean" message from the eco slider, is there a reason it doesn't show curren pop growth outright? Saves having to hover the bar after each nudge.

Because that area that shows Clean can also show Waste, Terraforming, Soil Enrichment and Atmospheric Terraforming. You can have positive growth AND any of those things in the same turn.

The pop growth area on the slider was added to show players their expected overall growth for the colony because it was useful information not presented in MOO1.
 
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Infinitum

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Oh, hey. Quick on the response there. Imma move some later edits to this post to reduce confusion. Just rattling off impressions as I go.

* Why do Klackon put down a flag in its colonization sequence? It has no concept of property ownership nor need for ceremony. Just having a bunch of bugs scattering in all directions would be more thematic imo.

* Why does construction of factories have one significant decimal and cloning of population zero (I mean, yeah it was in the original but still)?
 

RayF

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* Why do Klackon put down a flag in its colonization sequence? It has no concept of property ownership nor need for ceremony. Just having a bunch of bugs scattering in all directions would be more thematic imo.

My 6-month old child had a concept of property ownership. The Klackons are not robots; they are intelligent creatures controlled by a hive mind. There's no comparison in the real universe for this (actual ants are only an analogue), so there's potentially a great variety in how a hive mind would act. The Borg, for example, certainly had the concept of ownership.

* Why does construction of factories have one significant decimal and cloning of population zero (I mean, yeah it was in the original but still)?

"Because MOO1" is the correct answer.
 

Infinitum

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Huh. Always figured Klackons were one indvidual. A communal hive using symbolism still strikes me as an antropomorphism, but I digress.

Also, newer players are not using the reserve system.

It being clunky and opaque being two pretty good reasons why though. There is enough room for another slider below the rest if you move around the notification prompts. Just throwing it out there.

Define an "idle fleet" because you are potentially talking about dozeons of warnings each turn by the midgame

Anything not in transit without a specific "Hold" command? Maybe a separate "move and hold" command for when you concentrate forces. Possibly a "Hold on production" checkable prompt for rally points. Maybe even a stationary fleets counter somewhere on the UI and a way to scroll through them separatly. The game screen do tend to look like a flipped plate of spagetti lategame and finding specific ships is sometimes an issue.

mousewheel through all of the systems for that planet's empire. Super convenient.

I'm playing on a trackpad laptop :(. Not sure where a "next planet" or "next fleet" button would go on the ui, but I do miss them. Modern gaming has spoiled me.

If you want to see what is possibly coming, you're going to have to get that outside of the game because muh immersion.

I mean, once you've memorized the entire tech tree maybe. If you want to make the game more accessible for newer players actually being able to plan ahead ingame is still a major QoL improvement.

Not as easy to implement as you think, but basically you are asking the game to constantly move sliders around for you for optimal allocation of resources... automating min/max micro for you. I'm not into automating stuff for players. However, some people are into that. There's a Governor mod that someone makes for the game; I'd recommend using that.

Yes. In a vaccuum maximizing production output isn't a strategic/tactical consideration but necesssary busywork (if playing optimally). Especially as from what I've gathered the higher difficulty AI algorithm min/max everything? I'll check the mod out when you put out 1.0 though, thanks.

I wouldn't call spending an RP in a category to open up your first tier an exploit.

More of a no-brainer. 6 RP to gauge your early options? No reason not to do that every game. Saves a few seconds of fiddling, and again is more beginner friendly. Also thanks for the heads up on the sliders, that was driving me up the wall for a bit there.

There is a way to tell them to fuck off. Build a fighter ship.

Muh immersion, mainly. Their ambassadors make a point at me bumping their colonies after all.

The pop growth area on the slider was added to show players their expected overall growth for the colony because it was useful information not presented in MOO1.

And this is a good thing! Still, it'd be even better if it was visible somewhere without the mouseover since it's information that directly dictates how you set the sliders optimally.

EDIT: Does terraformation take precedence over cloning population when you're at sub-maxium population levels? Seems.. odd. Terraformation is a plenty powerful tech and probably doesn't need the boost, but it is a bit counterintuitive.

EDIT: Speaking of the tech tree, having a description of techs eligible for trade would be nice. Again, not having avilable information with which to make informed decisions is the opposite of QoL.
 
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RayF

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Muh immersion, mainly. Their ambassadors make a point at me bumping their colonies after all.

But that is not a requirement. It is just an informational message letting you know that you are taking a diplomatic hit. You don't have to move your fleets if you don't want to. BUT... if they bring in fighters, then you have to move your scouts.

And this is a good thing! Still, it'd be even better if it was visible somewhere without the mouseover since it's information that directly dictates how you set the sliders optimally.

There's more useful information for the player than there is real estate to put it. Maybe I'll think of a way to make this non-hoverable info. I appreciate your input.

EDIT: Does terraformation take precedence over cloning population when you're at sub-maxium population levels? Seems.. odd. Terraformation is a plenty powerful tech and probably doesn't need the boost, but it is a bit counterintuitive.

Yes, terraforming takes precedence over purchased population growth. The reason is that the latter will happen organically, for free, whereas terraforming must be purchased.

EDIT: Speaking of the tech tree, having a description of techs eligible for trade would be nice. Again, not having avilable information with which to make informed decisions is the opposite of QoL.

You can see what techs the AI has that you do not on the Races-Intelligence tab. And if you click your empire on that tab, it shows a combined list for all of the AIs. Super convenient.
 

RayF

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Congratulations RayF for a job well done. Only played a few hours but it looks and feels awesome!

Thanks! I'm glad you like it. I'm not too shy to agree that the game is awesome... mainly because it has turned out far better than I ever expected when I started.
 

Infinitum

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You can see what techs the AI has that you do not on the Races-Intelligence tab. And if you click your empire on that tab, it shows a combined list for all of the AIs. Super convenient.

Yeah, I found that. Nice. I put that somewhat vaguely I think. What I meant was a description of what the techs one trade does (and preferrably what tier they are). With nothing but the names to go by its sometimes hard to gauge what a good trade is or not (unless one is already familiar with the techs).

Unrelatedly, does anyone knowof a good online resource with the MoO techs? The wikis sem useless, and with several games sharing the smae name and how generic some of the techs are it can be a pain to find out what much of anything is :/

EDIT: Think I found a visual bug; in space combat with combat speed 2 if you are placed diagonally across an asteroid the opposite diagonal square shows blue, yet you can't track through the asteroid to reach it? Am I missing something?
 
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