RPG gameplay elements/habits you don't understand

[c2007]

^^^ I would guess masturbation by incrementation has something to do with colored loot drops, loot that has the same name with slightly different stats because yay color, and ten level-ups for your gun, your stock, your bullets, your trigger etc.

Then, masturbate more by gating some of that sweet loot the player just got, by checks on stats that make no sense in the real world. A sword is a sword, a gun is a gun, etc. It doesn't take more experience firing a gun, to fire a better gun. If you can swing a cheap sword that is balanced for shit and dull, you can swing a mastercrafted sword. You may cut yourself with it, which a good game designer could make some checks on - a novice swordsman using the master's sword is as likely to slice his foot off as he is to land a killing blow to the enemy - but I digress.

(Edit: further digression. A strength check can make sense in game for a 2H sword or a heavy repeater or somesuch, but a regular sword is a regular sword, if you can use one competently you can use a better one more competently, because that is how real world crafting works. Better craftsmanship results in weapons that need less skill, not more. Current game progression is upside down and assbackwards.)

Item Fever - I believe that refers to, yes, too much trash loot. But also part of the above problem - I need Dildo Bayonette X, that Tickler Bayonette IV is so lame where is my skinner box AAAAAAAAAAHHHH

I disagree with several parts (I agree more than I don't) of OP's OP, and with some of the threads participants in parts of their arguments, but there is a lot of good bitching going on here that I approve of and wish would be addressed by a competent game designer.

 

[Lilliput McHammersmith]

It's hard to fully articulate how much I despise Diablo-style loot treadmills, Divinity "item fever", and any other form of rampant itemization. Some key features of this type of design:

- Illogical, randomized item design: Oh look it's a Fine Epic Amulet of Fire Magic and Lockpicking +3. Because that's totally something a person would enchant and find useful.
- Nonsensical item distribution: You looted the aforementioned Amulet off of a giant rat. Where did the rat get this? Why was he carrying it? And how, for that matter?
- Boring, mindless item progression: You just got a new sword. It's a Level 6 which does +2.7% damage, compared to the Level 5 you've been using which only does +2.3% damage. After 50 hours of this, your reward centers are completely numb.
- Artifacts are devalued: You explored the ancient castle of Dickendorf and managed to recover Belenfuck's Sword, a long lost artifact! A few levels later, you loot a Plain Iron Sword off a bandit that has better stats.
- Consumable spam: Wow I am having a hard time in this fight, I better come up with a better strategy pause the game and drink 5 potions in a row so my health is refilled.

I could go on and on. It's beyond me how anyone could enjoy this sort of thing, but people seem to love being buried under an avalanche of trash, regardless of how it hurts the game in other ways and just generally makes little sense.

I know that the Codex's stance on Pillars is well-defined, but the item design I thought was pretty good. I know, I know, the +5% debacle, I get it, but hear me out. Soulbound Items are one of the best things Pillars did. They had an awesome progression and they were by far and away the best items in the game. I got the Stormcaller Bow, and as a Cipher, it was incredible. For many enemies, I could take a couple of shots and have maximum Focus. It was freaking great, and you could only get to it after going through some pretty difficult battles.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Non-gameplay elements that detract from the game, such as

• Narrative
• Companion chatter
• Romances
• CYOA

I wish Kickstarter had negative stretch goals, so that we could pay to avoid having these in our CRPGs.

 

[DalekFlay]

Mine would be "100%ing" anything. Whether it be looking up the best quest solutions, doing every quest, marking off everything on the map, whatever. It all seems like anal bullshit to me, which detracts from the fun of just letting your choices and exploration play out. I fault devs too, as they lean-in to this 100% idea with achievements, map markers, whatever. New Vegas is one of my favorite "modern" games and there are still plenty of quests in it I've never done.

Recently saw some youtube vids on Fallout games and the guy who talked about them played New Vegas and Fallout 4 with companions following him everywhere. And I just don't get it. Having followers in first person RPGs is lame as fuck, all they do is cramp your style, especially in something as clunky as Bethesda's Fallouts where they only get in your way when you wanna shoot at the enemy.

Really depends on the game for me and how well the companions are written. In Skyrim and Fallout 3/4 I mostly ignored them, but in New Vegas I couldn't help but bring Cass, Veronica and Boone around on my three playthroughs because they were so well written and interesting. Veronica even changed my playthrough, as I was planning to support Mr. House but couldn't destroy her family in the Brotherhood, so I turned on him and made it my Yes Man playthrough.

 

[Lilura]

I wish Kickstarter had negative stretch goals, so that we could pay to avoid having these in our CRPGs.

I wish Kickstarter didn't exist: as a rule, it's a platform where washed up devs go to beg, dressed in what amounts to rags.

The backers are also beggars: they want to be energized with "lofty" stretch goals, such as those of Poncefinder: Cuckmaker:

 

[Harthwain]

I'll never understand the appeal of companions in action RPGs.

I think they are included, because there is this notion that a "proper" RPG needs companions. Personally, I hate uncontrollable companions in general, not just in action RPGs. I also hate uncontrollable, stupid companions who die easily if you don't throw yourself in harm's way to save them. At that point I don't bother with having companions altogether. And if you make a question-related companion, then at the very least have some decency and make him/her an immortal walking prop.

 

[DraQ]

Narrative

Behead all who insult PS:T!

Spoiler

Also, everything you do in the game forms part of the narrative you dumhead.

Companion chatter

Behead all who insult Wizardry 8!

Romances

Beh... Actually, just carry on.

 

[V_K]

Companion chatter

Behead all who insult Wizardry 8!]

It's not companion chatter when you create them yourself.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Companion chatter

Behead all who insult Wizardry 8!]

It's not companion chatter when you create them yourself.

But Wiz 8 has companions and they are good.

 

[V_K]

Companion chatter

Behead all who insult Wizardry 8!]

It's not companion chatter when you create them yourself.

But Wiz 8 has companions and they are good.

At most two at a time, so they don't contribute to chatter that much.

 

[Lilura]

But Wiz 8 has companions and they are good.

But Wiz8 has furfags like Morrowind, so Jagged Alliance 2 wins again.

 

[DraQ]

item fever

What does this term mean? Too much trash loot?

masturbation via incrementation

Am I correct in assuming that this means things like picking a perk that gives "+1% damage against wolves"?

Eh, just play one of the Divinity: Original Sin games.
They aren't *bad* games. I would even say that DOS2 is a really good game.
But the amount of infuriatingly retarded game design decisions in them, item fever and stat inflation in particular, makes you want to bang your head against the wall until you mercifully pass out.

Masturbation via incrementation is pretty much anything where player is supposed to be happy just because numbers go up.
It is closely tied to stat inflation, irrelevant but growing modifiers, item fever and so on.

 

[*-*/\--/\~]

Achievements. Completely meaningless, designed for retards who cannot go for five minutes without a pat on the back. They only serve to cover how shallow and generic the actual game is by constantly distracting you by handing out shinies.

I still remember the first "achievement unlocked - kill 10 wolves" or something forced in my face years ago. Wtf. Was that a quest I did not know I had? Nope, nothing in quest log. No exp gained. Nothing in inventory. No acknowledgement by any characters. Nothing.
After looking thorough everything for a few minutes I had to conclude that it really serves no other purpose than to stroke egos.

 

[*-*/\--/\~]

Also cutscenes and voice acting. Widely demanded by players, yet completely lost on me.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Also cutscenes and voice acting. Widely demanded by players, yet completely lost on me.

Sometimes, it's not so bad ...

Spoiler

Specially when you can skip them.

 

[c2007]

Achievements. Completely meaningless, designed for retards who cannot go for five minutes without a pat on the back. They only serve to cover how shallow and generic the actual game is by constantly distracting you by handing out shinies.

I still remember the first "achievement unlocked - kill 10 wolves" or something forced in my face years ago. Wtf. Was that a quest I did not know I had? Nope, nothing in quest log. No exp gained. Nothing in inventory. No acknowledgement by any characters. Nothing.
After looking thorough everything for a few minutes I had to conclude that it really serves no other purpose than to stroke egos.

It is part of the skinner box. Surprise reward supposed to trigger pleasure center, leading to more engagement (longer playing) hoping they can make a completionist out of you. To get the Platinum Dildo, you have to buy the RoboCock DLC, and the Slide It In Skin Pack, to unlock the last 4 hidden acheevos including the "I spread my own cheeks" Trophy for self-cuckery and total faggotry.

 

[JarlFrank]

I actually like achievements... but I prefer them to be genuine achievements, such as finishing quests, finding secrets, beating tough enemies etc.

Lame shit like "slay 100 foes" or "fire off 1000 bullets" or "craft 50 items" is boring and I don't bother with that kind of shit. Skinner box grind as a substitute for real gameplay.

 

[V_K]

Lame shit like "slay 100 foes" or "fire off 1000 bullets" or "craft 50 items"

Or write 25000 codex posts.

 

[Darth Canoli]

I actually like achievements... but I prefer them to be genuine achievements, such as finishing quests, finding secrets, beating tough enemies etc.

Lame shit like "slay 100 foes" or "fire off 1000 bullets" or "craft 50 items" is boring and I don't bother with that kind of shit. Skinner box grind as a substitute for real gameplay.

I have nothing against "smart" achievements but i prefer when they offer small rewards too.
I'm not sure but i think Drakensang did something like that, specifically The River of Time.
Every bit of painful shit gets far less tedious when you get rewarded for it, even better if it's not that tedious.

 

[*-*/\--/\~]

Also cutscenes and voice acting. Widely demanded by players, yet completely lost on me.

Sometimes, it's not so bad ...

Spoiler

Specially when you can skip them.

I guess. Though the choice between skipping content and trudging through it sluggishly isn't a good one. Let me read at my own pace, dammit.

 

[JarlFrank]

Also cutscenes and voice acting. Widely demanded by players, yet completely lost on me.

Sometimes, it's not so bad ...

Spoiler

Specially when you can skip them.

I guess. Though the choice between skipping content and trudging through it sluggishly isn't a good one. Let me read at my own pace, dammit.

Let me add to that my main gripe with JRPGs: the horrendously slow yet verbose dialogs.

Every sentence types out letter by letter rather than displaying instantly.
A single dialog window only has a low amount of text in it. Compare western RPGs like Baldur's Gate, where an entire paragraph fits in the text window, vs your average JRPG where it's merely a sentence.
You don't get any dialog options, so the dialogs are basically cutscenes.
Cutscenes where you have to press enter 50 times in a row because the characters can't shut up with their inane banter.
Imagine Minsc and Aerie banter, except a lot more juvenile, and delivered sentence by sentence, and after each sentence you have to press enter to go to the next.
You can't just skim through it like you can in western RPGs. No. You have to click through it sentence by sentence, and you don't even get to pick dialog options to offer your own opinion on all that blah-blah.
It's so fucking tiresome.

 

[jungl]

jrpgs verbose dialogs? Uhhh I think you thinking of games like tyranny and pillars of enternity backer npcs.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

The backers are also beggars: they want to be energized with "lofty" stretch goals, such as those of Poncefinder: Cuckmaker:

Wouldn't a Cuckmaker game be a game about making cucks, in other words going around banging people's wives? Wouldn't that be a good thing?

 

[Semiurge]

How the "good" choices usually lead to more content and "evil" ones to a harder difficulty with less content. This is probably due to developer laziness and tight budgets because they can't afford to make all possible playstyles equally viable, different but with approximately the same amount of content. Whatever the intention is on their part, it's not realistic. When playing a new rpg I'm compelled to be everyone's lackey, fearing that choosing any other way would gate away some of the content and in the worst case, break the game because of sheer developer stupidity.

 

[GentlemanCthulhu]

If the game has a lot of reactivity surrounding the companions (ie. them responding to whatever the fuck's going on etc.) then i like that as an RPG mechanic. Helps if the companion has nice TnA.